Sizing Recipes

[DrinkBoy]

I was recently looking through the various recipes I've collected, and noticed that they range all over the board on the actual size of the resultant cocktail. I was thinking about going through all of them and trying to re-formulate the recipes (keeping the ratios as close to the same as possible) in order to get them all close "enough" in the size of the poured drink, but then I thought about strength.

A 4 ounce Martini, is clearly going to be a stronger drink then a 4 ounce Bronx... do you think cocktail recipes should try to be sized at a consistant size, or strength?

-Robert

[Gary Regan]

I don't think that you could make all cocktails be the same strength--imagine a Manhattan with just a drop of vermouth, such as some of you might use in a Martini--it wouldn't taste like a Manhattan at all.

As for size, I think you are doing the right thing by adjusting amounts while trying to keep ratios pretty much intact. What's most important as far as I'm concerned, though, is that people should understand that cocktail recipes, for the most part, are mere guidelines.

If you ake a stew that calls for 2 cloves of garlic, and you happen to be a garlic lover, don't you add 4 or 6 cloves instead? Same applies to cocktails, providing you can achieve a balance that pleases you and/or your guests.

[beans]

If I may add, cost is a factor as well, no?

Within the licensed establishment: Pouring for patrons (within the US), management is mindful to the pertaining local laws and regulations concerning the serving portion permitted as well as the cost of the proportions of all of the ingredients. I cannot but help but notice that when visiting many European bar and cocktail websites, those folks often serve up a healthy and sturdy three+ ounces of liquor within many of the drinks. The restaurant/bar of my employ, we actively regulate the barstaff pouring disciplines and try to keep it to a maximum of 2 ounces for a very few drinks (say like Long Islands ). However, on the other hand, we also have some rather healthy pours for the large cocktail glasses for whatever Martini of the moment -- and are priced accordingly.

But then this scenario may be quite different, by preference, for the home bartender attending to their guests.

This is at least the manner in which I've rationalised the various recipes I've read in differing cocktail books, being targeted for different audiences.

Any thoughts on this?

[Gary Regan]

Sorry, Beans, but I'm not quite sure what the question is here. I think it's all to do with personal preference, and in the case of bars and restaurants it's up to the management to cater to the kind of clientele they are trying to attract.

[DrinkBoy]

My question wasn't really implying that to make drinks the same strength would mean making a Manhattan with only a drop of vermouth. Instead it would be more like "sizing" the cocktail so that the overall totall amount of alcohol was the same (or close to the same) in all of the drinks. So a Manhattan would be served in a smaller glass then a Sidecar. And an "extra dry Martini" would be even less then that.

Does that make any sense?

-Robert

[beans]

I was looking at the various recipes for the same drink perspective, that are published far and wide with many different volumes, but in usually similar proportions.

I think I'm trying to balance creating cocktails in the work place/in the biz versus the home mixologist. Do you have restaurants and bars approach you with a specific cost being a big factor to their signature cocktail menus and drink pricing?

The "Sizing Recipes" struck various notes of perspective for me. While I understand that some drinks are designed to induce a zombie-like warm, fuzzy euphoria in one punch, others are tried and true recipes with moderate amounts of alcohol. Another part of this -- my observation that many European drinks and cocktails are made with much more volume of liquor, perhaps worthy of a different direction of discussion (probably most attributed to differing cocktail cultures, etc.).

Back to my question of cost being a factor, I have found that some cocktail recipe books will be clearly written for the industry as a excellent bartender's resource, reference and guideline while others will be targeted for the home bartender for both personal enjoyment and entertaining purposes.

[This is where I think I've worked perhaps too many a corporate establishment, and am now saddled with a bit of the managerial responsibilities and tasks, forever concerned with cost as the first and foremost thought/question! ]

Liquor costs and adjusting our menu pricing accordingly, hand in hand with our owner and bookkeeper nearly run my day to day life! Every signature cocktail we've worked on this winter has come down to the same set of questions: What are the costs of the ingredients? The portions of the ingredient? And the price charged for the cocktail for the guest while trying to keep it within our desired price range and targeted goal liquor cost percentage? Not always fun when trying to be creative....

Whereas at home, entertaining friends or family, while mindful of maintaining recipe ingredient proportions to preserve the cocktail's integrity, I'm not concerned if I'm pouring a two ounce or a four ounce drink.

[Gary Regan]

Aha! Sorry for misinterpreting your meaning, Robert. (For the benefit of e-gullet members who don't know this, I think that Robert and we should let you know that we've known each other for years, and Mardee and I often consult Robert about all sorts of cocktailian stuff)

Now that I fully understand what you mean about "sizing," I have an answer: NO!

I don't think it's a bad idea altogether, and it would ensure that a group of people drinking at the same rate would be consuming the same amount of alcohol as each other, but I just don't think you could get away with it in a bar, or even in your house. I'd be standing there with my massive Manhattan while you were holding a teeny weeny Martini . . . Such stuff could lead to blows.

[DrinkBoy]

Actually, your Manhattan (besides being on the rocks) would be very close to the same size as my Martini, since I like to use a fair amount of dry vermouth in mine. :->

Ok... so then check out the recipe for the Alaska cocktail in JoM... why is it so small? I had decided this weekend to start going through all of the recipes on my site an trying to get them to all come out about the same size, in which I quickly ran into the Alaska, and wanted to see how you ratioed it out... only to find out that yours is even smaller then mine!

It was then that the thought struck me that perhaps making all drinks come out to the same size shouldn't be the objective, but instead to consider the overall strength of the resultant drink.

With a traditional cocktail glass, you can actually hide this level of difference -very- well.

-Robert

[Gary Regan]

Well, er . . . The reason the amount of ingredients in the Alaska is so small is that I seem to have made a mistake. I tried to formulate all straight-up cocktail recipes to fit into a 5-ounce glass (more or less). This means using approximately 3 ounces of ingredients, allowing one ounce of water to melt from the ice, and ending up with a four-ounce drink in a five-ounce glass so you can pick it up and get it to your mouth easily enough.

I think that your concept of all cocktails have the same amount of alcohol is a good one, I just don't think it would be practical.

[MiguelCardoso]

A Dodge City Saloon alternative to DrinkBoy's thought-provoking suggestion, which has the added advantage of allowing guests to calculate how much they've had to drink - and cheaper in terms of glassware - would be to serve everyone's "additional alcohol deficit" in a shot glass, according to the cocktail's main spirit. This way, you'd have those who drank Cosmopolitans, say, holding an extra chaser of vodka. Boilermakers all round!