Bouley

[glenn]

Was there yesterday (Sunday) for lunch. OUr initial choice, Le Zinc, was closed for a private party. Since Bouley was right up the block, we stopped there for convenience sake. I stupidly assumed they had a brunch which they didn't; my fault for not asking or looking at the menu beforehand. Jeez, doesn't everyone serve brunch on Sunday? Aside from a couple of things, the service was what I would have expected. When we entered, the hostess seemed to be thrown off that we didn't have a reservation even though the place was two thirds empty (and emptier when we left). She left us standing there saying she had to have so and so seat us (the maitr'd?). We ended up waiting several long minutes to be seated. We were also given what I considered a poor table, right by the entrance and almost on top of another couple, while the place was pretty empty. I dunno if this is because we didn't have a reservation and we were casually dressed, but I suspect that it played a part. The initial snooty attitude almost caused us to get up and leave, which in retrospect after seeing the check, I wish I did. My water glass also remained empty twice until I asked for a refill. Other than that, the service was top notch. We told the waiter from the outset that we had tickets to a show and only had 75 minutes. He said it would be ok to order from the tasting menu even with the time constraints. They timed it perfectly. Bread refills (too many!) were had, and the service was very attentive.

The important part -- I could not believe the miniscule portions. With tax and tip and 1 glass of wine, total for 2 was $120, far too much loot for lunch for what we got. Or maybe I don't appreciate haute cuisine. :-))

[tommy]

The important part -- I could not believe the miniscule portions.  With tax and tip and 1 glass of wine, total for 2 was $120, far too much loot for lunch for what we got.  Or maybe I don't appreciate haute cuisine. :-))

were you hungry soon after?

i generally don't mind smallish portions, regardless of price, as long as i'm not stopping for a slice of pizza afterwards.

[glenn]

I don't mind small portions either if, 1) I don't leave hungry (I did), and 2) the food is a few thousand calibers above Burger King, which it wasn't.

[tommy]

I don't mind small portions either if, 1) I don't leave hungry (I did), and 2) the food is a few thousand calibers above Burger King, which it wasn't.

[phaelon56]

That's horrible.

I have been thinking that the way to deal with that is to clal the manager over during the meal.  This is the sort of thing that the restaurant would like to know and to correct, rather than have published on the Internet.  I know that this is hard to do in the middle of a meal, but still.

Bruce

IMHO when prices are this high and the restauant has itself positioned in the upper tier of NYC dining AND has been at it for a long time..... I don't think it should be necessary to call a manager over. If water and/or wine glasses are not being refilled when they should be, the manager or some other front end person should be picking up on this. It's their job to oversee front end staff and ensure that the diner's experience is a good one. If it was a new place or perhaps a small and moderately priced joint where they lack the financial resources to monitor the front end as intensively, I agree that the manager should be apprised of the situation. I just don't see any excuse for a place of Bouley's stature to drop the ball in this manner. I vote with my feet and my wallet in such situations.

[R Washburn]

IMHO when prices are this high and the restauant has itself positioned in the upper tier of NYC dining AND has been at it for a long time

Bouley is at a lower price point then what i would consider the "upper tier of NYC". I would compare Bouley to places like Mix and Blue Hill, rather than Daniel, ADNY, or Jeans-Georges.

As I mentioned above, I would avoid Bouley at times they are likely to be overwhelmed.

[sammy]

Maybe Mix but not Blue Hill. Blue Hill's entrees are priced from $21-28, about $10 less than Bouley. Apps are approx $5 less and desserts are $2-4 less. May not seem like much but it adds up to almost $20 more pp.

I haven't seen the Bouley wine list but I'd venture a guess that the prices are higher than at Blue Hill.

Regardless, any place that is charging $35 for entree should have their service act together.

Edited November 3, 2003 by sammy (log)

[Fat Guy]

Regardless of dinner entree prices, Bouley's four-course lunch tasting is a great value. It includes a canape, three savory courses (with two choices for each), a pre-dessert, a dessert (two choices), and petits fours, for $45. That's as good a deal as you're going to get at that level, although Jean Georges offers a similar lunch value (but not on weekends). Or you can have three courses for $35 (one less savory course than the four-course). I find it very difficult to complain about that pricing, even with some service flaws.

I'll be the first to admit, however, that Bouley is the most wildly inconsistent, service-wise, of the city's top restaurants.

[sammy]

Nobody was complaining about the pricing, they were complaining about the service.

[Fat Guy]

Nobody was complaining about the pricing

Glenn, in his post above: "With tax and tip and 1 glass of wine, total for 2 was $120, far too much loot for lunch for what we got."

[sammy]

Sorry, I missed that. I was referring to:

IMHO when prices are this high and the restauant has itself positioned in the upper tier of NYC dining AND has been at it for a long time..... I don't think it should be necessary to call a manager over. If water and/or wine glasses are not being refilled when they should be, the manager or some other front end person should be picking up on this. It's their job to oversee front end staff and ensure that the diner's experience is a good one. If it was a new place or perhaps a small and moderately priced joint where they lack the financial resources to monitor the front end as intensively, I agree that the manager should be apprised of the situation. I just don't see any excuse for a place of Bouley's stature to drop the ball in this manner. I vote with my feet and my wallet in such situations.

And I was responding to:

Bouley is at a lower price point then what i would consider the "upper tier of NYC". I would compare Bouley to places like Mix and Blue Hill, rather than Daniel, ADNY, or Jeans-Georges.

Clearly for dinner, Bouley is at a different price point than Blue Hill.

Edited November 3, 2003 by sammy (log)

[glenn]

Nobody was complaining about the pricing, they were complaining about the service.

glenn raises hand. It's probably just me, but I didn't think the 3 courses was worth the price -- the entree of chicken breast was completely indistinguishable from most any upscale restaurant and came with only a miniscule portion of vegetables. They later brought out a SMALL side dish of mashed potatoes probably because my eyebrows went up 3 feet when I saw my meal, and again, it was nothing special, . And if the potatoes were supposed to accompany the meal, then somebody goofed BIGTIME.

Having said all this, in all fairness it should be said that I am not as appreciative as most of you guys and gals of haute cuisine, or THAT LEVEL of food. I'm just as happy eating inexpensive ethnic food, and in yesterday's case, would have been happier having the corned beef and eggs at Le Zinc.

[R Washburn]

Maybe Mix but not Blue Hill. Blue Hill's entrees are priced from $21-28, about $10 less than Bouley. Apps are approx $5 less and desserts are $2-4 less. May not seem like much but it adds up to almost $20 more pp.

I haven't seen the Bouley wine list but I'd venture a guess that the prices are higher than at Blue Hill.

Regardless, any place that is charging $35 for entree should have their service act together.

Blue Hill's tasting menu is currently $65, Bouley's is $75. You are right that Blue Hill is cheaper, but I consider that the same price range. I see Bouley as being closer to Blue Hill in pricing then it is to the top NYC restaurants. Why Grimes gave Bouley four stars is a mystery to me. In my estimation it is an inconsistent 3-star restaurant.

[Pan]

We were also given what I considered a poor table, right by the entrance and almost on top of another couple, while the place was pretty empty.

I gather you didn't ask for another one. Why not?

[tommy]

We were also given what I considered a poor table, right by the entrance and almost on top of another couple, while the place was pretty empty.

I gather you didn't ask for another one. Why not?

there shouldn't be a bad table at that price point when the restaurant isn't full. perhaps glenn should have asked for a better table (although many don't bother, including me), but the fact remains that better tables were available and went unused, in glenn's estimation. the question is: why was he seated there?

[Pan]

I don't disagree, Tommy, but I still say that it makes a lot of sense to ask for a different table if you don't like the one you're given. I recall that when my brother and I went to Bouley for lunch, we preferred to sit somewhere other than the place they initially offered us, so we asked whether the location we wanted was OK. I mean, why sit there upset about where you are seated, if you could change that just by asking? The upshot is, if you care enough to complain about it to anyone or feel the least bit bad about it, speak up. Some people in fact don't care about having a "bad" table, right?

[glenn]

Pan & Tommy are both correct, I shouldn't have been seated where I was but I should've asked for another table. However, it was a small thing and only one of several that caused my experience to be less than great. I was more irate at what I perceived to be the reason we were seated where we were. Nevertheless, the primary reason why I didn't open my mouth was, like some other people, I find going into a stuffy high-end restaurant intimidating, not to mention I have a ridiculous fear of waiters and maitre'd's. And I'm in the biz for 12 years and have eaten at many of nyc's top places. :-))

[as an aside, I called Bouley yesterday to get a copy of my check. I didn't have time to even glance at it since we were in a rush to catch a show -- I can't understand how 2 prix fixes @ $35/each plus 1 glass of wine and 1 espresso added up to about $100 with tax. Doing the arithmetic, that would be about $22 for the wine and espresso.]

[rozrapp]

[as an aside, I called Bouley yesterday to get a copy of my check.  I didn't have time to even glance at it since we were in a rush to catch a show -- I can't understand how 2 prix fixes @ $35/each plus 1 glass of wine and 1 espresso added up to about $100 with tax.  Doing the arithmetic, that would be about $22 for the wine and espresso.]

Glenn, $100 is definitely possible. My husband has run into the situation at upscale restaurants where a glass of wine can cost $15! (I don't drink wine, so sometimes he orders by the glass if he can't find a decent half bottle.) If I recall correctly, this happened to him at both Ilo and 11 Madison. That could certainly be the case with your wine at Bouley. The espresso could easily have cost $5 or more. Right there, then, you've got $20. However, I think your are correct to have requested a copy of your check just to be sure that there was no hanky-panky.

[Fat Guy]

Why Grimes gave Bouley four stars is a mystery to me.  In my estimation it is an inconsistent 3-star restaurant.

It's definitely inconsistent. Maddeningly so. But unlike your typical inconsistent three-star restaurant, Bouley is capable of providing meal experiences at the apex of the American dining scene. Anybody who has always had the full four-star treatment at Bouley -- when a highly talented kitchen and a potentially great service team come together to sweep the customers off their feet -- would have written the same review Grimes did. I've seen it both ways, and I would go to Bouley a lot more often if I could know in advance which experience I was scheduled to have on a given day.

[Scott]

I have eaten at bouley just once. I was there on valentines day, and they were rammed. Many reasons why I went there, but a leading reason was I wanted damn fine food.

A friend of mine, a former head chef of Pierre Gagniere & Pierre Koffmann explained to me, that in their opinion Bouley was a genius, and that I must go there.

short: service could have been better, there was no carte, just the one menu (which I wasn't told about), and the best damned meal I have had this year.

I would consider myself certainly acquainted with fine dining, and the food was otherworldly.

[R Washburn]

Anybody who has always had the full four-star treatment at Bouley -- when a highly talented kitchen and a potentially great service team come together to sweep the customers off their feet -- would have written the same review Grimes did.

You are right that Bouley can be very, very good. However, shouldn't a four star restaurant show a little more change and innovation in their menu? One of the reasons I don't visit Bouley very often, is that it seems to me that they are always serving the same food. Not that there is anything terrible about that, but the menus seem to evolve much more rapidly at the other four star places.

It is also very easy to identify flaws in a dish such as: "Phyllo Crusted Florida Shrimp, Cape Cod Baby Squid, Scuba Dived Sea Scallop and Sweet Maryland Crabmeat in an Ocean Herbal Broth" when you have had it a dozen times. I might not even detect some of the inconsistencies if the menu changed more frequently.

[Fat Guy]

Most top restaurants serve a combination of dishes that have been there forever (aka signatures) and more contemporary dishes (aka the ones that may or may not sell). Bouley has been in the business for a long time -- there has to be some continuity. And I think the lunch tasting menu, which is really intended as an introduction to the Bouley style, is not the place to judge the diversity of his menu. If you examine the dinner tasting and the dinner carte, you'll see plenty of ongoing invention.

[R Washburn]

Dinner Tasting Menu

ChefÕs CanapŽ

~~~

Phyllo Crusted Florida Shrimp, Cape Cod Baby Squid, Scuba Dived Sea Scallop

and Sweet Maryland Crabmeat in an Ocean Herbal Broth

Or

Tuna Sashimi with Shaved Fennel

Dressed in Herb Oils and a Spicy Marinade

Or

Mediterreanean Rouget with Rose Olives, Saffron and Bean Sprout Risotto

~~~

Atlantic Halibut Roasted with

a Cauliflower Couscous and Oscetra Caviar Sauce

Or

Sea Bass Roasted in a Scallop Crust with 24-Hour Cooked Tomato,

Jasmine Rice and Sauce Bouillabaisse with Tahitian Vanilla

Or

Return from Chiang Mai:

Chilled Maine Lobster, Mango, Fresh Artichoke and Serrano Ham

Served with a Passion Fruit, Fresh Coconut and Kaffir Lime Dressing

~~~

Maine Day Boat Lobster with Heirloom Tomatoes, Sweet Watermelon Glazed with Ginger

And Ox Heart Tomato Sorbet

Or

Farm Raised Squab in a Crust of Cabbage, Foie Gras and Lemon Thyme

With Wild Baby Asparagus and Morel Mushrooms

Or

Organic Baby Lamb from Cooperstown, New York

With Glazed Carrots and Turnips

Or

* Seattle, Washington Kobe Beef with Asian Celery PurŽe and Horseradish Sauce

~~~

Chilled White Peach Soup with Fromage Blanc and Red Currant Sorbet

~~~

Raspberry Cloud with Yogurt Caramel Crisp, Rose Petal Ice Cream,

Amaretto Toffee Sauce and Apricot Anglaise

Or

Hot Valrhona Chocolate SoufflŽ

With Yellow plums and Blackberries, Blueberry and Vanilla Ice Creams, Chocolate Sorbet

Seventy-Five Dollars

One-Hundred-and-Twenty-Five-Dollars with Wine Pairing

*Twenty Dollar Supplemental Charge Applies

Seasonal ChefÕs Tasting Menu Available upon Request

Doesn't look too different to me. Or is it that the website is out of date? I really don't mean to pick on Bouley. He is a great chef, and I do appreciate that he produces such outstanding food at a lower price point then the other four star restaurants.

However, I am more excited about the prospect of lunch at Jeans-Georges over dinner at Bouley.

[Fat Guy]

I don't have a photographic memory, but all I remember is that the first dish under each set of choices is a Bouley classic. I don't recognize the others specifically as old dishes.

I think if you look at the J-G carte you'll see a lot of tired (not to mention out-of-season) classics from the Ruth Reichl days: the scallops with cauliflower, the garlic soup, the beef rolled in spices, etc. -- I don't see J-G as categorically more innovative than Bouley. You've also got to remember that no regular at Bouley orders from the menu, as is the case at a lot of the four-star places. The kitchen there is very good at impromptu degustations.

I've always had occasional inconsistent and frustrating experiences at Bouley's restaurants, but I also think he's one of America's most talented chefs. He has managed to synthesize a lot of contemporary European technique with a strong sense of American ingredients. His day-boat seafood purchasing program is very impressive and a lot of the product he gets and serves every day leaves a lot of room for catch-up for Jean Georges.

I think the best meal you can get at Bouley is a good deal better than the best meal you can get at Jean Georges. At the same time, I rarely recommend Bouley to anyone, on account of its inconsistency. The four-star restaurant I recommend the most at this point is Jean Georges, not because of its high highs, but because of its steady reliability.

[mjc]

on a somewhat unrelated note, bouley has a book coming out next week, based on the cuisine of danube.