Bouley

[cabrales]

Mao -- I have now visited the new Bouley three times as well (2 dinners, 1 lunch). The first two visits were disappointing; the third wonderful (but for a particular reason that may be difficult to replicate). The restaurant can reach a very high level of cuisine for NY, but generally appears to operate at a level lower than that in my preliminary assessment. I have had the same dish be unappealing one day and gorgeous the next week.  I agree that the restaurant appears to lack consistency, although the dishes within a meal appear to have consistency -- they tend to all be disappointing when one is disappointing.   Note I will further explore the restaurant after taking a slight break from it.

[Robert Schonfeld]

Since we don't often visit places in depth, I guess we'll count ourselves lucky. Based on others' comments, I can't say I'm anxious to press our luck by returning.

Consistency should be a most prominent feature of a great restaurant. This is why I'm leery of eating at the French Laundry when we go out there in October. If it doesn't meet my highest expectations - and the praise of so many experienced voices - I won't be a happy diner.

[Beachfan]

Is there any correlation of experience with crowds or seating?

At the old Bouley, lunch was always better than dinner.  I'm saddened by the highly variable experiences at lunch being reported.

[jaybee]

The original Bouley's was one of my favorite NY restaurants and never disappointed.  It set the standard for many dishes for me. David had the passion and committment to make every dish work and the place hummed with great service.  It sounds as he has lost his passion or his committment and is just mailing it in, as they say in jazz and the NBA. Too bad.  Maybe his various misadventures and punctured dreams (Russian Tea Room) set him back, and he doesn't care as much any more.  I wonder if anyone who knows him can say? With these recent reports, I probably won't go to find out.

[cabrales]

With these recent reports, I probably won't go to find out.

jaybee -- I did not intend to dissuade members from evaluating the restaurant for themselves. The prices for lunch are reasonable at $35 for four courses. Old Bouley used to be my favorite restaurant in NY (indeed, in the US, T Keller included) as well, and new Bouley served me one dinner recently that was imbued with all the promise of the old.  

[Steve Klc]

Cabrales--quite to the contrary, your hesitant yet revealing comments about Bouley and the rest of this thread has only made me want to go more.  And I want to go sooner rather than later, to see "Bouley Lite" or the Bouley with growth, experiences and world travels under his belt for myself before he closes or morphs again.

Consistency should be a prominent feature of every restaurant at every price point--not just great restaurants--and while I disagree with the deference you and others seem to show toward presumed or expected "great" destination restaurants--I do appreciate that you are able to share what you can.  For me, a full report chronicling one visit has value; anything less just serves to perpetuate the romantic sense that annointed restaurants at the top deserve some sort of special consideration. They don't.  Most diners will only go once.

[Degustation]

This was part four of my dining weekend – see this link to access descriptions of the other meals. (Dim Sum GoGo, Gramercy Tavern, Fleur de Sel)

http://forums.egullet.org/ibf/index.php?s=...t=ST&f=4&t=8050

I ended my weekend dining extravaganza with the lunch tasting menu at Bouley on Memorial Day. I arrived at 12:30 and the room filled up quickly, but I stayed for almost three hours, sampling the dishes at a relatively leisurely pace.

The service was haughty, competent, but lacking at times. I watched this poor elderly gentleman at another table who tried three times to get his bill, over a span of 30 minutes or so. On the final try he marched up to the congregation of suited waiters (who always looked like they were huddling and whispering conspiratorially), and loudly proclaimed, “I first asked for the bill 15 minutes ago, I then demanded the bill a second time and now I insist that I get the bill immediately!!” This managed to get them scurrying.

Since the lunch menu has been described quite well in this thread, I will only elaborate where necessary. Items in brackets were the other options offered in the menu.

Amuse-gueule canapé – Sweet Maine crab salad with marinated cucumber and tomatoe coulis

1) Phyllo crusted Florida shrimp. Baby cape cod squid, seared diver sea scallop and sweet Maryland crabmeat in an ocean herbal broth

This has been aptly described. Excellent combination and well prepared, one of the more memorable dishes of the weekend.

[or Maine skate with a pineapple caper sauce, and salad of mixed organic greens]

2) Maine salmon with a fricassee of sweet corn, sugar snap peas and sorrel

A round piece of salmon sitting on a bed of corn and peas, with sautéed sorrel, and accompanied with a light buttery sauce. Nothing too inspirational, but the salmon was fairly moist.

[or Atlantic halibut roasted with glazed green asparagus, reglisse mushroom Riesling sauce]

3) Japanese yellowtail, with microgreens (compliments of the chef)

The yellowtail with a crispy skin was topped with a handful of microgreens served with a dark, tangy (tamarind perhaps?) sauce along with a scattering of pinenuts. The tart sensation nicely heightened the fatty fish, and was complemented well with the fresh greens.

4) Tender braised organic veal with a Pinot wine sauce and confiture of scallions

Tender pieces of veal that had been braised overnight produced a literally melt-in-your mouth texture. The meat was infused with the rich sauce, and served with oyster mushrooms and a large dollop of good buttery mashed potatoes.

[or Pennsylvania all natural chicken with date turnip puree spring vegetables and brussel sprouts]

5) Fresh orange melon soup with apricot, yogurt, and raspberry sorbets, passion-mango ravioli.

Though described with mixed feelings by others, I felt this dish was superbly prepared. There was an excellent balance of sweet, tart and refreshing flavours that helped set up for the final dessert.

6) Hot Valrhona chocolate soufflé with Prune Armagnac maple and vanilla ice cream, chocolate sorbet

Light and delicate with an intense warm chocolate interior, the soufflé was well accented with the cool ice cream and sorbet. This was definitely superior to the chocolate desserts experienced at Fleur de Sel the previous evening.

7) Fresh rhubarb parfait with strawberries, coconut crisp and rhubarb, cassis sorbet (this was the second dessert choice but was also served compliments of the chef)

Unfortunately this extra dessert was brought to me at the same time as the chocolate soufflé. So it seemed to be a race between completing the soufflé before it cooled or finishing the parfait before it melted. The parfait lost as I became immersed in the soufflé. Thus my judgment on this is tainted since it was a bit of a gooey mess when I finally got to it. My lingering impressions were of very tangy fresh sensations.

8) Mignardises

Tuilles

Nut coated, white chocolate truffle with a pistachio cream center

Sesame brittle

Nut-coated, dark chocolate truffle with hazlenut cream center

Chocolate ganache in a pastry shell tart

Raspberry, blackberry, kiwi, custard cream tart

White chocolate with a coffee flavoured mousse cream filling

Along with the refreshing Pear tree green tea, this was a nice finish to the meal.

$74 (includes tasting menu, lychee martini, green tea, taxes, and tip)

An amusing anecdote:

I was seated beside an elderly Chinese couple who were obviously regulars. One of the captains engaged in lengthy conversations with them, which ranged from discussing Bouley’s current trip to Japan where he was teaching at an institution similar to the CIA, his current favorite item to work with (yellowtail) and his new pine nut tart dessert. As they were discussing things, I managed to smile and catch the lady’s eye every time they happily commented on the food.

Just as they were preparing to leave, she sat down beside me (we were both seated in the corner banquette area) and said that I looked like I enjoyed gourmet food (was it the glistening tears in my eyes as the dishes were presented or just that I was wolfing down everything in sight?). She revealed that she and her husband love Bouley and came to eat two to three times a week. She also recommended Daniel and Jean Georges where they also spent as much time frequenting. I guess as regulars they do not have problems getting a table. In fact the captain was recommending where they could be seated the next time they came – must be nice.

When she found out that I was from Toronto, she said she had friends there but complained that whenever they visited them, they only went out to Chinese restaurants (I suggested next time they try Susur). The conversation drifted to Montreal, where I’m originally from and where she had a brother. She indicated that once they stayed at the Ritz and the concierge recommended Les Halles. We agreed it was a very formal, old style French restaurant, but her husband really liked the place. The last time they were there, they ran into Peter Jennings and he had asked them why they were there, to which her husband had replied, “Just to eat!” I laughed and said I had a habit of doing that too! All throughout this conversation the husband sat there and chuckled every time his wife and I bonded over a funny foodie moment. As they were leaving, the husband finally spoke to me and said he had just got out of the hospital on Saturday, and the first thing they did was come to lunch at Bouley. I forgot to ask them to adopt me.

[Bux]

--and how much currently is inspired by or directly lifted from Herme, Bill Yosses and Adria? Are customers being shortchanged and is the food media in a position to notice or care?

Didn't Bouley and Herme have some short lived arrangement a while back at the Bouley Bakery? I wish I could remember the details or rumors.

By the way, do you think most customers feel shortchanged by lifted dishes if they really like them? I'm not sure if the media doesn't care because diners don't, or vice versa.

[Beachfan]

Degustation, was it only the service that prevented you from waxing enthusiastically about your Bouley experience? It seemed like all but the salmon was exciting food.

[Degustation]

Beachfan - Actually I didn't find the service was too bad for myself. Sorry that it seemed that I wasn't impressed with the meal. The food was in fact excellent and an absolute steal for that price. Overall, I think it was the best dining experience that weekend.

Though Gramercy was exceptional in service and consistent in execution with its use of ingredients, it did not offer the originality of Bouley. The Gramercy experience left an impresion of "It's good, but so what?"; while Bouley instilled an excitement with each dish.

Except for a couple of dishes, it was definitely superior to Fleur de Sel in originality, layering of flavours, execution, and visual composition.

[Robert Schonfeld]

The service was haughty, competent, but lacking at times. I watched this poor elderly gentleman at another table who tried three times to get his bill, over a span of 30 minutes or so. On the final try he marched up to the congregation of suited waiters (who always looked like they were huddling and whispering conspiratorially), and loudly proclaimed, “I first asked for the bill 15 minutes ago, I then demanded the bill a second time and now I insist that I get the bill immediately!!” This managed to get them scurrying.

This vignette, particularly in contrast to the most charming anecdote about the Chinese couple, brings to mind the importance for me of service in a restaurant. While there is no doubt that diners who are regulars deserve and will receive an exceptional level of attention, it is the occasional customer, whose sensitivity and appreciation for the experience may well be as great or greater than the regulars, who is at times treated less than well. I'm reminded of the elaborate and, apparently, successful, efforts of liziee to make herself known at places she favors. What I'm wondering is, should it be necessary to go to any lengths at all to receive a level of service that is commensurate with the way in which the establishment represents itself to its entire target market? Not that the guy at Bouley deserved to be treated like a member of the family, but did he not deserve the professional attention of the waitstaff to the extent that his request for the check would have noticed and acted upon the first time?

[Beachfan]

I agree with you re: service. Interestingly, Bouley has always treated me very well, with Didier (the maitre d'hotel) remembering me from the old Bouley and Danube. However, I don't think I've been to the Bouley restaurants more than 10 times in 10 years.

While that certainly is a lot for me; I don't think it's a lot for their clientel.

[Degustation]

Since I was there for most of the service, I noticed that it may have started to deteriorate towards 3:00 pm. I was looked after quite well in the beginning, though it started to falter towards the end when I had the mignardises. No one came to enquire whether I wanted a coffee or a tea. I ended up asking a runner if a specialty tea could be brought to me, since there weren't many waiters around at that point. The captain then came over to find out what I wanted. However, the bill was brought to me quite promptly when I requested it.

I agree that service needn't be quite as cloying as displayed by that runner at Gramercy, but I do expect it to be professional. As it was my first time, I would have been put off, if the service was quite poor. I was the only single diner in the room, but I was treated quite well and would be willing to return because that helped enhance the dining experience. That minor gaffe was not that off-putting and I think that poor gentleman had a worse time trying to get the bill. He did end up marching up to the waiters because he simply could not catch anyone's attention (the couple of waiters on the floor were all in their huddle with their backs to the room).

[Mao]

I went back to Bouley last night, and well it was one of those nights the kitchen was just on, probably because the place was relatively quiet and overstaffed, underguested. Items on the tasting menu that had been there the last few times I have been over 3-4 months were still present--the Chiang Mai lobster preparation, the phyllo crusted shrimp, and the to be avoided kobe beef. Frankly, I have given up expecting consistency from the kitchen. My last two meals there were dull and flat, and the prior one to those two was brilliant. This one left me speechless. I went on a bender this week with consequtive meals at Babbo, 11 Madison, ADNY and Bouley. Babbo was superb and ADNY was excellent, but Bouley floored. When the random function that turns the kicthen into "on" mode is "on" the place has perhaps no rival in NY.

I had

Atlantic Halibut

Rouget

and Squab

But perhaps should have ordered the Maine Lobster Prepared in an Exotic Manner, Sauteed Baby Bok Choy, Mango and Papaya Cooked with Tahitian Vanilla, since I don't think lobster has been ever been better accompanied. One of my two dinner companions ordered this, and oowed for a good 20 minutes.

The choc souffle was also superb, but they also brought one complimentary dish of rice pudding and fresh fruit sorbet that was not on the menu that was texturally brilliant--warm, cold, sweet and soft, crunchy and yielding all at once.

All right I wil stop fawning, but on a good night, I think there is no other place I would rather eat in the city.

[Jinmyo]

Mao, if you are so inclined, I'd be delighted by an addition to the Babbo thread...

[Beachfan]

Wow, what a control group to compare Bouley against. You have advanced science this week.

[cabrales]

Mao -- What did the sorbet that accompanied the rice pudding taste like? On Bouley's menu in place last month, the dessert was "Tahitian Vanilla-Carolina Rice Pudding with fresh Blackberries, Blueberries and Golden Plums. Sorbet of *Ten* Exotic Fresh Fruit Flavors". It always amuses me when restaurants refer to passionfruit or mango (the dominant flavors and coloring of the sorbet) as "exotic". The sorbet was no more special with ten flavors (integrated) than if there had been two.

We were told the recipe for the rice pudding is from Robuchon. I did not think the dessert was particularly delicious. Did anybody in your party consider, and was there on the menu, "Warm Pine Nut Tart with Apple Lemon Grass Sauce, Mint, Vanilla and *White Asparagus* Ice Cream"?

The use of vanilla with lobster was pioneered in France by Alain Senderens of Lucas Carton some time ago. Together with the Canard (Duck) Apicius and the foie gras steamed in cabbage leaves, this dish became his signature dish. I have never sampled Senderens' lobster, and do not know whether he utilizes vanilla from Tahiti.

[cabrales]

My exploration efforts with respect to Bouley continue. At certain points in time, I have wondered why I care enough to continue to visit this restaurant with such an open mind. My recent lunch reminded me of the "better" side of Bouley meals. I shied away from the lunch tasting menu, which has remained largely comparable in the past two months (only one of my two poor meals during the past two months had been sampled with the lunch tasting menu in place; the one positive meal prior to the instant one cannot generally be attained when I am not dining with certain people -- this is consistent with a history of such discrepancies at the "old", Duane St. Bouley).

Thinly Sliced Scuba Dived Sea Scallops in a Carpaccio Manner with Fresh Pomelo, Cherry Tomaties, Cape Gooseberries and Citrus Dressing ($16)

[A bite of Braised Japanese Yellowtail with Fresh Mango, Hon-Shimeji Mushrooms, Tamarind Dressing and a Ginger Aromatic Sauce ($14)]

Maine Lobster with Sweet Peas, Fava Beans, Haricots Verts, Blood Orange and Port Wine Sauce ($34)

Fresh Strawberry Soup with Lychee Sorbet

Warm Pine Nut Tart with Apple Lemon Grass Sauce, Mint, Vanilla and White Asparagus Ice Cream (not on the lunch dessert menu; but available)

Tahitian Vanilla-Carolina Rice Pudding with Berry Compote and Sorbet of Ten Exotic Fresh Fruit Flavors (complimentary)

Hot Valrhona Chocolate Souffle with Prune-Armagnac, Maple and Vanilla Ice Creams [Pistachio added], Chocolate sorbet (complimentary)

Champagne

1/2 Puligny-Montrachet

The meal was considerably better than the two "poor" meals I have had at Bouley during the last two months, although markedly below the level of the "very good" meal I have had there during the same period.

The amuse utilized on certain prior visits of Maine crabmeat had now mutated into Maine crabmeat underneath a tomato gaspacho with a little dollop of avocado puree (guacamole-like in texture) above. It was nothing special.

The scallop carpaccio contained fresh seafood, but was not particularly balanced in its flavors. The pomelo (sometimes referred to as white grapefruit and common in certain parts of Asia) was an appropriate accompanying item, but there was no indication of the cape gooseberries (presumably South African gooseberries or "physalis", spelling). The citrus dressing turned out to containg significant amounts of blood orange, according to the dining room team member who brought the dish. I inquired why I had not been alerted to this upon ordering both the scallops and the lobster main "with blood orange and port wine sauce". Laughably, the dining room staff member returned to indicate that the blood orange connotations were almost not noticeable in the lobster main (whose presentation on the menu referenced blood orange). The jus was a thin citrus-based jus that was not noteworthy. Overall, the dish was average-plus. Slices of cherry tomatoes were helpful to the dish. My dining companion's braised yellowtail was noticeably better.

Note that the scallop illustrates one of the less appealing aspects of Bouley's progression since the old Bouley. While he has utilized citrus-based sauces and citrus-based garnishings (or items utilzing "exotic" fruit, which, for the restaurant presumably includes passion fruit and mango, items included in the ten "exotic" fruit sorbet) for some time, they are more prominent than before. For example, three of the seven appetizers on the lunch a la carte menu contain citrus/exotic fruit -- (1) Return from Chiang Mai -- Chilled Maine lobster, *mango*, fresh artichoke and serrano ham with Thai curry dressing, (2) the described scallops, which have a citrus dressing, and (3) Braised Japanese yellowtail with *fresh mango* (as discussed above -- the mango manifested itself in the form of little circular slices on which a large cube of hamachi had been placed). In the entrees, there is the lobster with the "blood orange" and port wine sauce.

The lobster main was good-to-very-good. The freshness from peas and fava beans against the "darkness" of the port-based sauce (the blood orange flavors were indeed difficult to detect). Served in a largish bowl that had red coral-like patterns on it. The lobster was cooked just right for me (which is slightly on the undercooked side), and its sauce was attractive. Note that lobster with a port-based sauce is one of the signature dishes of Roux's Waterside Inn in London (albeit not with peas and fava beans). The Bouley version was slightly sweeter, and contained less port relative to other ingredients than the Roux version I recollect.

The lychee sorbet in the pre-dessert was appealing. Desserts were fine. The white asparagus ice cream was nice, and the pine nut tart was appropriate. This is among the more attractive Bouley desserts in my mind (which is not necessarily saying much). The rice pudding, previously served in a star-fruit-shaped white bowl, is now presented in a sundae-type glass with a wide top and narrower bottom. There is an unspecified fruit compote at the bottom, followed by the layer of rice pudding, and the sorbet on top of the glass. Overall, a good-plus meal, with the lobster main bordering on very good.

Service continued to disappoint.

[Beachfan]

Did you find the bread pleasurable or below standards?

[cabrales]

Beachfan -- Below what I would have hoped for, had I not eaten there before. However, I generally like apple-based breads and the warm, apple raising bread was fine. I think objectively the bread does leave something to be desired, even in relation to certain other NY restaurants. Note I do not know much about bread.

[marcus]

At what point does the extreme inconsistency at high end NYC restaurants, as at Bouley, become unacceptable? Does hope always spring eternal? Is my perception that New York is much worse in this regard than the major European food destinations correct?

[cabrales]

marcus -- My observations suggest that Bouley is noticeably more consistent when "regulars" are included in a dining party. The restaurant appears to be able to produce better food (even as to the same dish) in that situation.

[marcus]

Cabrales, for a restaurant to send out extras for special customers is probably acceptable. To say that the same dish is prepared to a different standard in the kitchen, based on which customer it is intended for, is terribly damning. I would personally boycott such a restaurant if I really knew this to be true. How sure are you with respect to Bouley? General inconsistency can lead to apparent patterns which are actually random phenomena.

What is your view as to the overal consistency or inconsistency of NYC restaurants?

[cabrales]

marcus -- Again, I can only make inferences based on my own perceptions. I would say that I have a subjective belief that is happening, based on maybe 4 visits to the new Bouley, 4-5 visits to Bouley Bakery and perhaps 5-8 visits to the old Duane St. Bouley over time. In particular, for two meals, I took in the same dish within the span of a week for two dishes. The resulting dishes were rather disparate. I don't consider it damning to say that a restaurant can achieve better quality for a dish when a "regular" is present. For example, one could receive the closer supervision of applicable cuisniers.

[Robert Schonfeld]

I agree with Marcus.

With respect to any given item on a menu, I feel that I am entitled to the same level of quality in the preparation of the food as any other paying customer. For me, this is an important defining element for a restaurant. On my last visit there a couple of months ago, I thought the level of preparation was generally high. It may or may not have been the case that the conception of every dish would have pleased the most analytical of diners.

By the same token, I have no objection to a regular getting extras. In fact, were I a regular, I'd expect it.