The Cuisine of the United Kingdom

[Carlovski]

I first went to the UK when I was in college in the mid-90's. I was quite impressed by supermarkets at that time - their similarity to U.S. supermarkets in terms of convenience and hours of operation, but yet their offering of a lot of premium products like other European grocery stores I visited. I remember reading some Telegraph article a few years ago that said the profit margin for UK supermarkets is actually quite good - the profit margin in the U.S. and the rest of Europe outside of the U.K. is extremely thin. Not sure why that is the case, but the British are doing something right... I've developed a lot foodwise since that trip buying the god-awful processed cheese and sliced white bread from the Safeway in Durham. But, as an American, I loved the selection of foods in British supermarkets. Even as an "uncultured" (at least in the food sense) American college student visiting, it was the best of American and European grocery retailing.

That Durham safeway was bad, but it was probably better than having to get a kebab from saddlers....

Anyway, I thought processed cheese toasted sandwiches were what students were meant to live on!

[Carlovski]

The rise in popularity of farmers markets is another good thing, though again, I am pretty sure they are mainly populated by Waitrose shoppers.

Shame, as well as being generally high quality stuff, a lot of the produce is cheaper than the supermarket, especially seasonal produce in a glut (Which hardly seems to affect supermarket pricing).

[SobaAddict70]

A few more questions to ponder:

1. Where do you see culinary trends going in Britain? As much as we love to talk about Jaime, Nigella and Alton, do they REALLY exert as much influence on the dining out public in Britain as we think they do?

2. Is there a retro-return to British food in either a traditional or revisionist vein?

3. Are things becoming more international or globalized?

4. Class structure is still an important institution in many places around the world, and the UK is no exception. To what extent do you see it influencing a) the cuisine of the common people (if there is such a thing), and b) the cuisine of the UK on a national scale?

5. Are there any rising stars (i.e., chefs, restaurants, cookbook authors, teachers, food writers) on the British stage who hail from Scotland and/or Wales?

6. Does the United Kingdom still play any sort of significant role in exporting its culinary influences overseas, specifically former members of the Commonwealth? We already know of the effects its famous sons and daughters have towards foodies in the U.S.

Soba

[SobaAddict70]

Something of interest...or perhaps revulsion:

No strangers to American culinary achievements like Pizza Hut, McDonald's, Krispy Kreme and the occasional 1950's theme restaurant like Johnny Rockets, Londoners have gained a sudden and improbable enthusiasm for food that until recently many here considered vile: ribs, gumbo, collard greens, buttermilk biscuits — even grits.

When Gumbo And Grits Became British (Warren St. John) (from this weekend's NYTimes DIGEST. You may have to scroll down for the appropriate link.)

Soba

[Stigand]

I think the food of the Mediterranean has had an interesting effect on UK food over the last few decades.

On the one hand, the way British people eat has been improved by exposure to the attitude to food associated with the Mediterranean, with Elizabeth David being the giant on whose shoulders everyone else (up to and including the River Cafe and Jamie Oliver) stands. The example of Mediterranean food arguably helped interest British people in freshly prepared food, good ingredients and all that praiseworthy stuff. (I think one important part of this has been the medical establishment's lionisation of the Mediterranean diet, whatever we interpret that as meaning.)

On the other hand, the massive rise in popularity of this sort of food seems to be linked to prevalence of air-freighted, mediocre supermarket produce that e-gullet members generally deplore. Because no matter how much pasta we eat, England is not Tuscany. Tomatoes don't grow here all year round (or at least, they're not very tasty for much of the year), etc etc.

On balance, I think the popularity of Mediterranean food can only be a good thing - it's tasty in its own right, and the values of, say, Italian cooking have had a huge influence on good modern British food. But I'm curious about the degree to which people's desire for, say, pasta has undermined the market for, say, pie.

[Adam Balic]

A few more questions to ponder:

1. Where do you see culinary trends going in Britain? As much as we love to talk about Jaime, Nigella and Alton, do they REALLY exert as much influence on the dining out public in Britain as we think they do?

Not really a trend, but from the UK National Statisitic site it is apparent that between 1978 and 1998 per person per week:

- Fish consumption went up slightly

- Fresh veg. (non-potato) consumption decreased (from 380g/week in 1978 to 245g/week)

- Processed veg. (non-potato) consumption remained stable

- Beef consumtion decreased dramatically (234g/week to 110g/week)

- Chicken consumption increased slightly.

- Fresh potato consumption dropped (1243g/week to 715g/week)

- processed potato consumption increased (from 71g/week to 200g/week)

The number of prepared foods increased dramatically.

[John Whiting]

1. Where do you see culinary trends going in Britain? As much as we love to talk about Jaime, Nigella and Alton, do they REALLY exert as much influence on the dining out public in Britain as we think they do?

These are two separate questions, having to do with eating in and eating out. Culinary trends in general will continue to go as the world goes. A member of the food industry said it a decade ago:

Two hundred years ago everybody made their own clothes. Nowadays we haven’t time to do that—we go out and buy our clothes. Nobody makes their own clothes unless it’s their hobby. The same thing will happen with food: I estimate that in about 50 years time dinner will be something people will go out and buy, and nobody will cook, unless it’s their hobby. We in the food industry are working towards that.

3. Are things becoming more international or globalized?

This is answered over and over in these columns in the affirmative.

4. Class structure is still an important institution in many places around the world, and the UK is no exception. To what extent do you see it influencing a) the cuisine of the common people (if there is such a thing), and b) the cuisine of the UK on a national scale?

This will be answered very quickly when our credit-based boom collapses.

6. Does the United Kingdom still play any sort of significant role in exporting its culinary influences overseas, specifically members of the Commonwealth?

We know that immigrants from the Indian subcontinent, for instance, have evolved their cuisine, making use of British ingredients and adapting their food to British taste, and then exported the result back to their native countries. Patak condiments are a case in point. I’m sure it’s true of other culinary cultures as well.

[Adam Balic]

4. Class structure is still an important institution in many places around the world, and the UK is no exception. To what extent do you see it influencing a) the cuisine of the common people (if there is such a thing), and b) the cuisine of the UK on a national scale?

As class defined by household income, higher income households consume more fresh veg. and fruit then low income households. This is true in 1978 and 1998, however, while consumption trends are similar for both groups over twenty years the amounts consumed per person are very different:

Highest income group

Fresh green veg. - 371 to 278 grams (1978 to 1998)

Other fresh veg. - 481 to 621 grams

Fresh fruit - 966 to 1579 grams

Lowest income

Fresh green veg. - 321 to 181 grams

Other fresh veg. - 412 to 355 grams

Fresh fruit - 516 to 786 grams

Higher income groups eat more fresh chicken as well.

I don't think that Delia has made much impact on the lower income groups.

[Andy Lynes]

Apologies if this is not following the thrust of the debate, but whilst I think about this, I believe there is an arguement that questions the value of the work of people like Henrietta Green with her "Food Lover's Fairs" and Rick Stein with his "Food Heros" TV series and books. Whilst it seems almost churlish to criticise what I'm sure are honourable motives, there is a real risk that they reinforce the idea of good food as hobby and minority interest.

There is no question that both bring small, quality producers to the notice of a wider public, but I wonder what the effect of that actually is. Are they doing anything to actually drive up the quality of food available to all of us, or simply providing an outlet and publicity for small producers to provide premium priced goods to what in fact turns out to be a niche market of food enthusiasts?

[John Whiting]

Andy, I'm more concerned with food ethics than most, but in the privacy of my own mind I do not hold fine food followers responsible for the greed of the food industry and the indolence of the general public. The only ground for cautious optimism is Ezra Pound's observation that "two or three about the temples were enough to keep alive the old religions".

[Adam Balic]

Andy, I'm more concerned with food ethics than most, but in the privacy of my own mind I do not hold fine food followers responsible for the greed of the food industry and the indolence of the general public. The only ground for cautious optimism is Ezra Pound's observation that "two or three about the temples were enough to keep alive the old religions".

Also the ease in which various goverments have been complicent in this. I imagine that it difficult to ensure effective central food distribution to 60 million people, so why not give the supermarkets a free hand?

Andy - I believe that "premium priced goods to what in fact turns out to be a niche market of food enthusiasts" is more the case. There may be some difussion into the general population, but the goverment statisitcs on food consumption suggest not. Diet has improved in the last 20 years, but it is still poor and well balanced diets using fresh ingredients are still a mark of a higher income bracket.

[oraklet]

In terms of how availability of good ingredients in the UK has changed, there is no doubt that there is an immense variety of produce in the supermarkets and specialist shops that simply wasn't there 15-20 years ago. However, when I was growing up in the late 60's/early 70's I clearly remember accompanying my mother to the local butcher, fishmonger, and grocer and buying fresh ingredients for our meals. I still recall seeing the carcasses being delivered to the butcher and that he would often cut a joint to order. Now, meat is often delivered to butchers pre-portion and even pre-packed.

My memory of food at home is that it was mostly cooked from scratch, despite my Mother hating the task. Of course we had fish fingers and burgers and the like, but more often than not it was freshly cooked fish or meat with veg, or a stew or salad and possibly a home made apple pie for dessert.

Today, I have a very good butcher just around the corner from my house, but the nearest grocer's is the city centre open market, and the nearest usuable fishmonger is a 20 minute drive away. If I want to buy really good cheese and bread I have to find a deli whose prices are now aimed at those who can afford to treat food as a hobby rather than a necessity.

So the situation today is that the good basic food that was available to me as a child on my doorstep at prices my family could afford is now only obtainable as part of a treasure hunt around a 10 mile radius of my home, and at premium prices. This is progress?

i can recognize that picture from denmark, and from the rest of what i know of scandinavia. crap for the unthinking masses, luxury for the rich gourmets, and almost nothing in between. ham for instance, is either soggy stuff in supermarket plastic, or it's cut for you by a butcher who knew the pig's grandmother's name

[oraklet]

by the way: what is marmite?

[marlena spieler]

marmite is a thick dense gooey translucent paste that you are likely to either love or hate. it is intensely umami, in the same way that soy sauce is. you can only use a teeny tiny bit or you'll not be able to eat it again for awhile.

they have a website, just go to goggle; and if you go to www.sfgate.com , click food and dining, then click onto my name, and chronicle food archives, you'll find a column i wrote about it, oh, say 4 or 5 months ago.

as for me:

I LOVE IT!!!!!

[oraklet]

marmite is a thick dense gooey translucent paste that you are likely to either love or hate. it is intensely umami, in the same way that soy sauce is. you can only use a teeny tiny bit or you'll not be able to eat it again for awhile.

they have a website, just go to goggle; and if you go to www.sfgate.com , click food and dining, then click onto my name, and chronicle food archives, you'll find a column i wrote about it, oh, say 4 or 5 months ago.

as for me:

I LOVE IT!!!!!

oh thanks. i did have the impression - from reading slater - that it was a little like what forms when chicken or pork caramelizes, or when you make a concentrated stock, all of which can be, as you say, intensely umami.

[Adam Balic]

marmite is a thick dense gooey translucent paste that you are likely to either love or hate. it is intensely umami, in the same way that soy sauce is. you can only use a teeny tiny bit or you'll not be able to eat it again for awhile.

      they have a website, just go to goggle; and if you go to www.sfgate.com , click food and dining, then click onto my name, and chronicle food archives, you'll find a column i wrote about it, oh, say 4 or 5 months ago.

as for me:

I LOVE IT!!!!!

oh thanks. i did have the impression - from reading slater - that it was a little like what forms when chicken or pork caramelizes, or when you make a concentrated stock, all of which can be, as you say, intensely umami.

Except that it is made from yeast extract, like Vegemite. The yeast used is not the same yeast that causes thrush etc, so forget about all the pseudo-medical advice that tells you to avoid Marmite if you want to avoid yeast infections.

[Carlovski]

I am not sure whether this traditional british revival is a genuine one, or yet another fad, where as 5 years ago, every new place tried to offer south east asian, or fusion, then it was Tapas style eating and now this (I have actually seen the same place go through these changes, one day offering Laksa and Tom Ka, and then the next week, when it is no longer the in thing churning out tortillas and Calamari)

It would be nice to think that it is a genuine appreciation of the culinary history, and fantastic produce available in our fair land, but cynical me still thinks that in a year or two, it will be the next new thing ( Any guesses? My money is on 'Authentic' mexican, which will be nothing of the sort)

[oraklet]

I am not sure whether this traditional british revival is a genuine one, or yet another fad, where as 5 years ago, every new place tried to offer south east asian, or fusion, then it was Tapas style eating and now this (I have actually seen the same place go through these changes, one day offering Laksa and Tom Ka, and then the next week, when it is no longer the in thing churning out tortillas and Calamari)

It would be nice to think that it is a genuine appreciation of the culinary history, and fantastic produce available in our fair land, but cynical me still thinks that in a year or two, it will be the next new thing ( Any guesses? My money is on 'Authentic' mexican, which will be nothing of the sort)

i think there are many similarities in danish /scandinavian and british approaches to cooking. most important that both are to a large extent formed by a long regime of margerine and other ersatz products, in combination with the propaganda telling that it's good for you...

now in denmark, for c. 30 years good men and women have fought for a return to basics. not the cuisine of our great-grandmothers, but to using seasonal produce, and to recognizing the value of local produce. i imagine that the same development has been seen seen in britain. so, it's not a fad. on the other hand, it's very slow going, and is constantly being sabotaged by supermarket chains trying to sell us strawberries in january, or terribly sour pineapples, or hard peaches, or hard pears, or lousy french apples. what for would we want french apples, dammit? we can get perfectly good danish apples with decent to absolutely excellent taste from august till march. do we really need poor french /chilean/new zealand apples? no way. same with diluted concepts of tapas or thai cooking or...- sure, it is slow going, and perhaps a losing battle.

reminds me, i haven't had a really good pear for nigh on 20 years. nor really good strawberries. but of course, the pears and strawberries i can get now are much cheaper than 20 years ago, and accessible at all seasons.

[stephenc]

When I was living in London, it seemed that 70% of the time eating out, it was curry. English curry is pretty tasty.

[Stigand]

Apropos of all this talk of improving the quality of the food we eat in the UK, I came across the website of an interesting UK organisation called Sustain, that appears to lobby for better food production in the UK. It seems to be in favour of growing seasonal produce, of reviving traditional crop varieties, and of artisanal production, which most eGullet members seem to agree with. (Disclaimer: It also seems to be in favour of banning junk food ads targeted at kids, which I think has been the subject of controversial debate on this site before.) Worth a look if you haven't seen it before.

[Zingano]

Well, I'm living in France now, and feeling a little nostalgic, so forgive me for returning to the original thread.

- bacon, crispy, served in white bread with a little HP in a greasy spoon. (Best I know is in Southwark, we used to nip out of the hotel and pay a couple of quid for breakfast, avoiding the £12 "full English" that had been cooling on trays since 5am)

- crumpets, dripping with salty butter

- a picnic of crab sandwiches on a hot summer's day on the beach

- a decent ploughmans in a pub with a pint of local scrumpy

- fish and chips

- jellied eels

- any of the sausages from our excellent local butcher (who was a grazier)

- clotted cream, especially on scones & jam after a long walk round the coastal path in Cornwall

- Scottish smoked salmon

- Stoke oatcakes, with cheese

- Stilton, Cheddar and many more

- black pudding

- Summer pudding, with rich, yellow cream

- pink lamb with mint sauce

- a homemade pork pie

- my mother's drop scones, with Tate and Lyle Golden syrup

- sticky gingerbread

- parkin

- simnel cake

- steak and kidney pud (light on the kidney for me please)

- steak and oyster pie (cooked this for some Japanese people once, they loved it.)

- a huge Cornish pasty, again as a lunch after a decent long walk (you need exercise to cope with British food!)

- beef, rare, with a decent gravy and Yorkshire pud

- my mother's blackberry jam

- trifle, with no jelly and with real custard

- real custard, with anything, or alone

- syllabub

- Scottish oatcake biscuits with cheese

- Welsh cakes (griddle scones - my mother used to make these too)

- a hot curry (!)

- bread and butter pudding (ideally made with brioches and real cream, I'm not a traditionalist here)

- mince pies

- haggis

- mealy pudding

- Queen of puddings

- Lancashire hotpot

- oxtail stew

But what I really miss is a decent cup of tea!

[Mrs Woman]

A similar topic was also discussed in the now frozen Symposium

[balmagowry]

Well, I'm living in France now, and feeling a little nostalgic, so forgive me for returning to the original thread.

"...and it's a thing I dreadfully miss in France - I live in France - and they haven't a notion of pudding."

--Patrick O'Brian, 1994 interview, waxing nostalgic about suet

[John Whiting]

"...and it's a thing I dreadfully miss in France - I live in France - and they haven't a notion of pudding."

--Patrick O'Brian, 1994 interview, waxing nostalgic about suet

There is a tale that a French monk with extravagant gastronomic tastes was sent as punishment to an English monastery. His worst fears were realized. He wrote home in complaint (and this is how the story is known), ‘Their vegetables? They boil them! And serve them forth with nothing, straight from the water, like hay to horses!’

However, he did discover a wondrous thing that no one had told him about – the English custom of ending dinner with a hot pudding. He wrote about this with great delight and declared that it had made the whole experience worthwhile!

[balmagowry]

"...and it's a thing I dreadfully miss in France - I live in France - and they haven't a notion of pudding."

--Patrick O'Brian, 1994 interview, waxing nostalgic about suet

There is a tale that a French monk with extravagant gastronomic tastes was sent as punishment to an English monastery. His worst fears were realized. He wrote home in complaint (and this is how the story is known), ‘Their vegetables? They boil them! And serve them forth with nothing, straight from the water, like hay to horses!’

However, he did discover a wondrous thing that no one had told him about – the English custom of ending dinner with a hot pudding. He wrote about this with great delight and declared that it had made the whole experience worthwhile!

Isn't that Misson de Valbourg? The one who tried to explain pudding to his countrymen but was finally stymied by the infinite different preparations and compositions, and finally contented himself with blessing it in all its varieties, saying

Ah! what an excellent thing is an English pudding! To come in pudding-time is to come in the most lucky moment in the world.