Per Se

[robyn]

Forgot to mention our server. I've read about "stuffy" service here. Our server wasn't stuffy. I was a little confused about whether he was from California and didn't like the traffic and moved to New York - or whether he didn't want to move from NY to California because he didn't like the traffic. Anyway - I know he doesn't like driving in heavy traffic - and his last job was at Gustavino's. (Person who took our payment at Balthazar said he had lost one of his servers to Per Se.)

I suspect we know more about food than he does - but heck - we're probably 30 years older than he is and have a few more bucks. And that wasn't a problem with this restaurant. Still - this is not a server who worked his way up from hulling strawberries over the course of 10 years (the French tradition). And - I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable having him select a $300 bottle of wine. On the third (and last) hand - service was perfectly competent - and friendly. Robyn

[robert40]

Forgot to mention our server.  I've read about "stuffy" service here.  Our server wasn't stuffy.  I was a little confused about whether he was from California and didn't like the traffic and moved to New York - or whether he didn't want to move from NY to California because he didn't like the traffic.  Anyway - I know he doesn't like driving in heavy traffic   - and his last job was at Gustavino's. 

(Person who took our payment at Balthazar said he had lost one of his servers to Per Se.)

I suspect we know more about food than he does - but heck - we're probably 30 years older than he is and have a few more bucks. And that wasn't a problem with this restaurant. Still - this is not a server who worked his way up from hulling strawberries over the course of 10 years (the French tradition). And - I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable having him select a $300 bottle of wine. On the third (and last) hand - service was perfectly competent - and friendly. Robyn

←

There is also a maitre d at Per Se 'Kate' who told us she worked at Balthazar before coming to Per Se.

I believe I have a photo of her in my photo gallery in imagegullet.

[Bux]

I suspect we know more about food than he does - but heck - we're probably 30 years older than he is and have a few more bucks.  And that wasn't a problem with this restaurant.  Still - this is not a server who worked his way up from hulling strawberries over the course of 10 years (the French tradition).  And - I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable having him select a $300 bottle of wine.  On the third (and last) hand - service was perfectly competent - and friendly.  Robyn

←

Traditions die hard, but I don’t sense that French waiters are what they used to be. In the sixties I remember a team of black suited waiters serving us table side in the provinces. The captain or maitre d’, led the team. Someone else pushed the trolley and there were two waiters to slice and serve whatever was in the pot. Maybe there was even a third to wipe clean the edges of the plate with an impeccably clean towel. There was certainly another whose job it was to pick up whatever dropped to the floor. More often than not, he stood at attention the whole time. I forget whether he was followed or preceded by an observer waiting to inherit a real job. At the tail end was a lad who aspired to someday hope to move up a slot. I don’t know how many of those towards the tail of this parade were actually paid, but most of that team would now be in school getting what we might consider a rudimentary formal academic education.

The other fact is the general “youthening” of the population at large, most notably in the important services sector. Whereas I once felt I was in the good hands of sagacious men of learning and wisdom, I now find my life in the hands of surgeons much too young to have learned very much. I’m told nothing has really changed much except my relative perspective.

[robyn]

I suspect we know more about food than he does - but heck - we're probably 30 years older than he is and have a few more bucks.  And that wasn't a problem with this restaurant.  Still - this is not a server who worked his way up from hulling strawberries over the course of 10 years (the French tradition).  And - I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable having him select a $300 bottle of wine.  On the third (and last) hand - service was perfectly competent - and friendly.  Robyn

←

Traditions die hard, but I don’t sense that French waiters are what they used to be. In the sixties I remember a team of black suited waiters serving us table side in the provinces. The captain or maitre d’, led the team. Someone else pushed the trolley and there were two waiters to slice and serve whatever was in the pot. Maybe there was even a third to wipe clean the edges of the plate with an impeccably clean towel. There was certainly another whose job it was to pick up whatever dropped to the floor. More often than not, he stood at attention the whole time. I forget whether he was followed or preceded by an observer waiting to inherit a real job. At the tail end was a lad who aspired to someday hope to move up a slot. I don’t know how many of those towards the tail of this parade were actually paid, but most of that team would now be in school getting what we might consider a rudimentary formal academic education.

The other fact is the general “youthening” of the population at large, most notably in the important services sector. Whereas I once felt I was in the good hands of sagacious men of learning and wisdom, I now find my life in the hands of surgeons much too young to have learned very much. I’m told nothing has really changed much except my relative perspective.

←

I think things have changed more concerning attitudes about restaurants than attitudes about medicine. With doctors - you always want one who is old enough to have learned his/her craft - but not so old to have fallen behind the curve. In general - depending on length of time to learn a specialty - you're talking about people 35-60. As one ages - those doctors can start to look pretty young .

With restaurants though - I think it's truly attitudes that have changed. I don't know if you've ever dined at good restaurants in high end ski resorts - where the food was often very nice - but the service suffered from benign neglect because all the servers were hot skiers trying to pay their way through the season. Or in places in Florida or Hawaii - where you were dealing with surfing/beach bums. These days - instead of the service levels coming up in these places - I find the service levels coming down in more "worldly" places. Not necessarily in terms of how many servers there are - or what they wear - but in terms of their depth of experience - what they know. And this seems to be acceptable to a lot of diners.

I haven't been to France for a long time - so I can't comment there. But the French tradition dies hard - at least for me. Our waiter from Paris at David Burke & Donatella commented intelligently when I remarked that I hadn't had a sea urchin since I'd had one at Robuchon's Jamin. Similar experience when discussing menu items with the maitre d' at Gordon Ramsay in London. Had I made a similar comment to the California waiter at Per Se - I think I would have gotten a somewhat intelligent verbal equivalent of "duh". Not that there was anything wrong with the service at Per Se - just a lack of tradition and historical perspective. The times they are a'changing. And I don't miss the formality - or redundancy. Just the things a staff that knows a lot more than I do can teach me. Robyn

[Babiemindy]

Hi Everyone, I'm a new member, native of NYC. I just stumbled into this discussion group and found that all of your insights and information were very helpful. I have a reservation at 10pm next Tuesday (I don't know if it's a mistake or not since I have to work on Wednesday and it's also the company's company luncheon the following on Wed.). I'll be celebrating a special occassion with my boyfriend. I just wanted to find out from diners who's had late reservations at Per Se if they enjoyed their experience, was the food/ service rushed? (I called later to ask them to slide me into a earlier time if someone cancels... but 5:30 is early for dinner!)

Some great pictures from everyone that were there, I'm thinking about taking some pictures as well and will share it once I get back. Does the waitstaff mind when you are snapping away at every dish?

I am excited to able to dine there, this will be my first high end dining experience :p (I'm thought about making reservations at ADNY and Bouley but thought I'd give Per Se a try first since it seems to be the talk of town at the moment). I'm looking forward to the tour of the Kitchen as well, anyone can get a tour just by asking??

Oh by the way, the trick to get a reservation is to call promptly at 10am when the reservation line opens, if it's busy, hang up immediately and redial. Repeat. You should get through within 3 minutes, and then there's that wait to get a "real" person on the phone... my wait was only about 25 minutes and the hostess who picked up was very friendly.

Frankly, I am apprehensive about being an inexperienced diner at one of these uber "fancy" restaurants, any advice would be appreciated :)

Edited November 17, 2004 by Babiemindy (log)

[docsconz]

Hi Everyone, I'm a new member, native of NYC.  I just stumbled into this discussion group and found that all of your insights and information were very helpful.  I have a reservation at 10pm next Tuesday (I don't know if it's a mistake or not since I have to work on Wednesday and it's also the company's company luncheon the following on Wed.).  I'll be celebrating a special occassion with my boyfriend.  I just wanted to find out from diners who's had late reservations at Per Se if they enjoyed their experience, was the food/ service rushed?  (I called later to ask them to slide me into a earlier time if someone cancels... but 5:30 is early for dinner!)

Some great pictures from everyone that were there, I'm thinking about taking some pictures as well and will share it once I get back.  Does the waitstaff mind when you are snapping away at every dish?

I am excited to able to dine there, this will be my first high end dining experience :p  (I'm thought about making reservations at ADNY and Bouley but thought I'd give Per Se a try first since it seems to be the talk of town at the moment).  I'm looking forward to the tour of the Kitchen as well, anyone can get a tour just by asking??

Oh by the way, the trick to get a reservation is to call promptly at 10am when the reservation line opens, if it's busy, hang up immediately and redial.  Repeat.  You should get through within 3 minutes, and then there's that wait to get a "real" person on the phone... my wait was only about 25 minutes and the hostess who picked up was very friendly.

Frankly, I am apprehensive about being an inexperienced diner at one of these uber "fancy" restaurants, any advice would be appreciated :)

←

Welcome to eGullet!

You are certtainly entering the world of haute cuisine with a bang. IMO, the trick to enjoying it is to relax, let it come to you and not to worry too much about the money. The other trick is to not let your expectations get away from you. Go with an open and inquisitive mind and remember that you are the customer. Go with the full tasting menu and get the wine pairings to go with it. That is the easiest way to dine at Per Se to get the most out of it withoput being self-conscious. While 5:30 PM is generally early for dinner, you are essentially there for the evening. If you are used to staying up very late before going to wrk the next day, the 10PM reservation should be fine. If not, I would recommend the earlier reservation.

As for photos, go ahead and take them as unobtrusively as you can (i.e no flash), but don't be surprised or upset if they ask you to stop.

Best wishes on your special occassion.

[toddski]

I had a 10pm Sunday reservation last month. We ordered the 9 course menu and were done around 1:30a.m. The service never seemed rushed although I would have enjoyed a little more leisurely pace. As for a 5:30 reservation it may seem early but you won't be finished til 9.

[docsconz]

I had a 10pm Sunday reservation last month.  We ordered the 9 course menu and were done around 1:30a.m.  The service never seemed rushed although I would have enjoyed a little more leisurely pace.  As for a 5:30 reservation it may seem early but you won't be finished til 9.

←

Toddski, Welcome to you as well!

[Babiemindy]

Doc thanks for your wise words, but I won't be going after all. I was looking forward to it but then thought that I'd want to save this experience for next year... I would much prefer to go to the original FL in CA the spring than going to Per Se now. Since FL is the original! So instead of beginning my haute cuisine experience this week in NYC, I'll be heading south to New Orleans for some cajun comfort food :) Have a great holiday everyone!

[docsconz]

Doc thanks for your wise words, but I won't be going after all.  I was looking forward to it but then thought that I'd want to save this experience for next year... I would much prefer to go to the original FL in CA the spring than going to Per Se now.  Since FL is the original!  So instead of beginning my haute cuisine experience this week in NYC, I'll be heading south to New Orleans for some cajun comfort food :)  Have a great holiday everyone! 

←

Enjoy! and tell us about your experiences in The Big Easy.

[MonsieurSatran]

OMG! I just got a reservation at Per Se for Januray 28th, 9PM. I had all but given up hope, and today was the last day I was planning on trying. The first time I tried, a month or so ago, my cell phone battery ran out just as the reservationist picked up. Very frustrating. Anyways, I am overjoyed, and am looking forward with the utmost glee to my dinner. BTW, any more recent reports?

[zeitoun]

Hi Everyone, I am new to the forum and since this is my first post, I thought I might start with a grand occasion. Last week I had dinner at Per Se with my significant other and some friends. We all had the 9 course tasting menu. We had a 9pm reservation and left the restaurant at 1am. Some wines we had were paired with our dishes by the sommelier, on other instances we did the pairing ourselves with half bottles we selected off the list. I will not venture into detailed descriptions for the wines since frankly I am not a real expert. I have to note though that Per Se has an incredible selection of half bottles in the $60 to $100 range. You might want to opt for this if you want to avoid the $150 (per head) wine pairing the restaurant offers. The wine list went as follows:

- Yves Cuilleron Condrieu 2002 - Viognier

- Glasses of Tokay from Hungary & Ribola from Slovenia (paired by the sommelier)

- Javillier Meursault "Les Tillets" 2002 - Chardonnay

- Brovia Barolo 1997 - Nebbiolo

- Neiman Cellars "John Caldwell Vineyard" 2000 - Cabernet Sauvignon

Before I begin going into details about food, I should remark that I've had a profound respect for Thomas Keller ever since I was introduced to his cuisine. I have never eaten at the FL but had food at Bouchon in Napa (a satisfying consolation for those who cannot get a table at the FL). My experience with Chef Keller's food stems mainly from the numerous readings I have done about him and his culinary philosophy, and more importantly, from his FL and more recent Bouchon publications which I have read close to a dozen times. Needless is to say, Keller in my eyes has a culinary vision and approach superior to anything else I have seen in the US. I believe it is Eric Ripert who said he thought Thomas Keller was today probably the best chef in America, if not the world. I would dispute the latter but would perhaps agree on the first part. Knowing this, I was evidently looking forward to my dinner at Per Se.

The service, which matters to me but not as much as food, was impeccable. Case in point: Through 9 changes of silverware, not one time did I notice it being done (all the wine consumed might have exacerbated that feeling towards the end though). The wait staff was unobtrusive and alert. They knew when to interpose and when not to. Just looking at them placing our plates on the table was a pleasure, it was polished and graceful.

Here is a brief description of the food we had:

- Cornets of Salmon Tartare with Red Onion Crème Fraiche.

No need to elaborate on this, a FL classic which I savored with gusto.

- Oysters and Pearls

Same as above, I enjoyed the balance of flavors in this dish

For the men:

- Hudson Valley Moulard Duck Foie Gras en Terrine with Pickled Huckleberries, Celery Branch and Brioche Melba.

I did not like this dish, I did not particularly care for the foie gras which was airy and creamy but lacked in flavors of…foie gras. The brioche was way too salty and I did not notice any tones of pickling in the huckleberries (it tasted like a good jam at best).

For the ladies:

- Salad of Hawaiian Hearts of Peach Palm with Confit of Ruby Red Grapefruit and Shaved Macademia Nuts with Cilantro Vinaigrette.

I had a few bites of this and did not quite care for this dish. I simply found it dull.

- Carnaloni Risotto with Shaved White Truffles from Alba (we ordered this as a supplement)

Aha! What a pleasure! The beauty of this dish did not lie essentially in the generous shavings of truffle (shaved on premise) which covered the risotto. The rice was simply perfect, creamy and airy, balanced in flavor. Unlike any other risotto I have had before.

- Sautéed Filet of Gulf Coast Pompano with Honey Crisp Apples, Braised Belgian Endive, and Sauce Beurre Noisette.

The sauce was almost absent in this dish, and I do not mean this figuratively. I felt the pompano was a tad too cooked, some of the moist quality of this fish had clearly been lost during the cooking process. The bitter endive was braised to perfection and the apples offset the overall dish with a touch of sweetness and acidity.

- Novia Scotia Lobster “Cuit Sous Vide” with Fondue of Savoy Cabbage, Applewood Smoked Bacon, Chestnuts, Sugar Pie Pumpkin Puree and Black Truffle Coulis.

Each element of this dish when tasted separately was good, bring them together and the overall experience of the dish turns into chaos. I have to note though that it is rare for me to actually enjoy lobster. I often find it too dry and bland, even when prepared at high end establishments. The tail only was served and the sous vide technique of cooking perfectly retains the delicate texture and aroma of the lobster. I wasn’t too fond of the combination of chestnuts and pumpkin puree. The chestnut was served whole and braised. The black truffle coulis, which was insipid to my palate, had no place in this dish. The bacon was an overwhelming match for the lobster. And then, there was the cabbage…Too much.

- Saucisson de Lapins with Roasted Hen of the Woods Mushroom, Slow Poached French Prunes and Garden Tarragon.

I thought each ingredient worked well as an ensemble. The rabbit was splendidly accompanied by the tarragon sauce which was pungent and delightful. The prune added sweetness while the slightly crisped mushroom brought texture and earthiness to the overall dish. I thought that the rabbit sausage was a little too dry to my taste though.

- Snake River Farm’s Calotte de Boeuf Grillee with Fricassée of Fingerling Potatoes, Pearl Onions, Sweet Carrots and Savoyard Spinach with Crispy Bone Marrow and Sauce Bordelaise.

This dish was a knock out. The beef was grilled to perfection, retaining all its juices and tenderness. The fricassee was flawless. The marrow, crispy outside and soft inside, brought richness to the dish.

- Ossau Vielle with Plumped Royal Blenheim Apricots, Pistachio Tuile, and Sicilian Pistachio-Extra Virgin Olive Oil in Emulsion.

I would normally kill for cheese, but this dish was disappointing.

- Lemongrass Ice Cream with Passion Fruit Curd, Soy Caramel Syrup and Szechuan Pepper Sablé.

I tend to find desserts on this side of the Atlantic (I grew up in good ol’ Europe) generally too sweet and intense. Fortunately, this was a complete contradiction of that tenet. The curd was creamy yet not too heavy and the ice cream had, as expected, beautiful hints of lemongrass. I normally despise caramel in my desserts, but this was by far acceptable.

- Tentation au Chocolat Noisette et Lait. Milk Chocolate Cremeux, Hazelnut Streusel with Condensed Milk Sorbet, Pain au Lait Sauce and Sweetened Salty Hazelnuts.

This was less of a success than the previous dessert. Too much in one plate. I just could not finish it.

- Mignardises

Overall, I would describe my experience as more than satisfactory. But this is what troubles me, I was expected to be blown away and I was not. Where more than half of my dishes had elements of excellence, I felt at times that they did not always work as composed dishes. That is, some elements of my various dishes were technically perfect alone, however I felt at times that they had lost some of their appeal in the context of the overall dish (The lobster dish for example). In addition, I did not expect to be so overwhelmingly unimpressed with some of our courses, such was the case with the Foie Gras and the Hearts of Palm. There were moments of culinary bewilderment of course, the White Truffle Risotto (I just love fresh truffles) and the Calotte de Boeuf being primary examples of this. The FL classics of Cornets of Salmon and Oysters and Pearls were well executed.

One complaint I frequently have at fine dining establishments throughout the country is that chefs, more often than not, “try too hard”. The result can be profoundly disappointing. Recent instances of this in my case were at the Fifth floor in SF (On a tasting menu of 6 dishes, I was eating my 3rd foam of something in 3 dishes) or 71 Clinton Fresh Food in NY (not quite fine dining yes, but still a complete debacle). I was expecting Per Se to be a notch above anything else I’ve had in the past, I wanted to be enthralled by chefs Keller and Benno’s preparations. They obviously show a serious display of skill and artistry in every dish, but on some dishes, I felt there was sometimes too much restraint on flavors. Although that night, perfection was close to being accomplished on some dishes, it was not a towering accomplishment during my overall meal.

[DanaT]

Welcome to egullet, zeitoun! I would love to have the opportunity to be 'disappointed' by Per Se.

For the men:

- Hudson Valley Moulard Duck Foie Gras en Terrine with Pickled Huckleberries, Celery Branch and Brioche Melba.

I did not like this dish, I did not particularly care for the foie gras which was airy and creamy but lacked in flavors of…foie gras. The brioche was way too salty and I did not notice any tones of pickling in the huckleberries (it tasted like a good jam at best).

For the ladies:

- Salad of Hawaiian Hearts of Peach Palm with Confit of Ruby Red Grapefruit and Shaved Macademia Nuts with Cilantro Vinaigrette.

I had a few bites of this and did not quite care for this dish. I simply found it dull.

←

I'm curious about this. Did the men and women in your party make separate orders or did Per Se offer a his and her menu. Novel concept, if they did.

[robert40]

Welcome to egullet, zeitoun! I would love to have the opportunity to be 'disappointed' by Per Se.

For the men:

- Hudson Valley Moulard Duck Foie Gras en Terrine with Pickled Huckleberries, Celery Branch and Brioche Melba.

I did not like this dish, I did not particularly care for the foie gras which was airy and creamy but lacked in flavors of…foie gras. The brioche was way too salty and I did not notice any tones of pickling in the huckleberries (it tasted like a good jam at best).

For the ladies:

- Salad of Hawaiian Hearts of Peach Palm with Confit of Ruby Red Grapefruit and Shaved Macademia Nuts with Cilantro Vinaigrette.

I had a few bites of this and did not quite care for this dish. I simply found it dull.

←

I'm curious about this. Did the men and women in your party make separate orders or did Per Se offer a his and her menu.  Novel concept, if they did.

←

The foie gras course is offered as a second choice on the chefs tasting menu with a $25.00 supplement.

[zeitoun]

As Robert pointed out, the Foie Gras or Hearts of Palm comes as a choice for the second course. The only choice we had to make on the chef's tasting menu. It just happened that we decided to order this way.

Was I being so negative in my report? The disappointment I might have conveyed comes from my over-the-top expectation for perfection. But this was a bit naïve on my part, I should have known better. I feel almost relieved to know that Chef Keller is human after all and not perfect. It does justice to all the other American chefs out there who are equally talented (Trotter, Kinch, Achatz, Bouley amongst many others). I am sure Chef Keller would be the first to recognize that.

Now that I had time to reflect, my experience at Per Se reminded me of one essential principle. What matters with food is taste, personal taste. What did not impress me might impress others, and vice versa. Eating is such a personal experience after all, it cannot be influenced or dictated. In an age where NYT or Michelin stars and Zagat ratings (okay maybe not) have become barometers of excellence and success, it is something we unfortunately forget too often.

[DanaT]

Thanks for the clarification, Robert and zeitoun.

What matters with food is taste, personal taste.  What did not impress me might impress others, and vice versa.  Eating is such a personal experience after all, it cannot be influenced or dictated.  In an age where NYT or Michelin stars and Zagat ratings (okay maybe not) have become barometers of excellence and success, it is something we unfortunately forget too often.

←

How true. Fois gras is a bit temperamental, I think. It needs the exact mixture of complements to bring it out and then the combination that pleases one fails to please the other. That's probably true of a lot of dishes.

A friend in Pasadena still hasn't been able to get into the French Laundry. Its on the Relais and Chateaux site. I wonder if Per Se is.

[robyn]

...Now that I had time to reflect, my experience at Per Se reminded me of one essential principle.  What matters with food is taste, personal taste.  What did not impress me might impress others, and vice versa.  Eating is such a personal experience after all, it cannot be influenced or dictated.  In an age where NYT or Michelin stars and Zagat ratings (okay maybe not) have become barometers of excellence and success, it is something we unfortunately forget too often.

←

I know that it is highly recommended that one have tasting menus at high end restaurants on a first visit - but if X and Y are far from my favorites - and they're the highlights of the tasting menu - I go to the a la carte menu - and pick the things I really like (even when prepared by lesser chefs - including me!). There are people who could have the best lemon dessert in the world - and they'd still like the chocolate swirl at the Dairy Queen better. So my advice is to eat the foods you like - if you can get them - no matter where you're eating. And don't go to a seafood place when you want to eat a steak - and vice versa! Robyn

[IrishCream]

Sorry if this is redundant...epicurious.com has a video tour through the Per Se ktichen with Keller. Also a couple cooking demos and an interview.

[percyn]

How would you like the reservations process to work? Aside from changing the music, I'm not understanding what the problem is, other than popularity.

←

I've also looked at Opentable lately - and that looked like it should work fine (I especially liked the way it searched within a certain time of your requested reservation if the time you wanted wasn't available). Robyn

←

I think there is a bug on opentable, which will not allow you to book a table at per se 2 months in advance, when they start taking the same reservations via the phone (i.e. since today is Dec 25th, do a search for Feb 25th..it will say that Per Se does not accept reservations 61 days in advance. However, if you call the restaurant, they will take reservations for Feb 25). Thus don't expect to get a table on a specific date via Opentable. I brought this to Per Se's attention a few days ago, so lets see how soon it gets fixed...I just tried a min ago and it was still broken.

Thanks

Percy

[Bux]

OpenTable is an excellent service, but never assume it will offer the full range of options you will get by calling a restaurant directly. My understanding is that not every restaurant listed gives OpenTable full access to all tables at all times.

[Fat Guy]

Just to highlight a semantic difference, and maybe this would be an interesting thread, OpenTable is both a piece of "guest management" software called OpenTable that restaurants use for reservations and dining-room organization, and a web site called OpenTable.com that interfaces with the OpenTable systems at member restaurants and allows customers to make reservations over the internet. The OpenTable software on site manages 100% of available tables, but within that system a slot can be blocked out as "manager's slot" or the like, and thus, in that example, nobody but a manager will be able to authorize a reservation. There are other ways to safeguard tables as well.

[Bux]

I'm curious about this. Did the men and women in your party make separate orders or did Per Se offer a his and her menu.  Novel concept, if they did.

←

Daniel will generally offer separate menus for men and women at the table, although it's not quite as sexist as it sounds as they will also send out separate courses if there are two men or two women dining together. If you're lucky, if it's special occasion or if you know someone in the kichen on the right day, they have been known to send out separate dishes for all four people at a table for four. This was true even in their old location. Daniel's tasting menu is not listed and it's usually prepared after the waiter enquires about the diner's allergies, likes and dislikes. At the French Laundry several years ago, Mrs. B and I had an extensive tasting menu. Never did the same course come out for both of us. At Oceana, we've twice had the good fortune of having the chef prepare separate menus for us. Most recently, it was for a table of three. It's not particularly that novel or unusual, but it may be a practice seen only at restaurants with exceptionally talented kichen supporting a strong chef and even then, it's more likely to be offered to a regualr customer rather than to a one time diner. This would be the kind of performance a chef could put on for a recognized critic, but as much is it might display a virtuosity, it also exposes a wider range of dishes and might show some faults or repetition of sauces and garnishes. Thus it's a double edged sword.

As noted earlier, some diners have strong particular tastes and some are envious when their companion gets a dish they would have preferred. In fact, many diners eschew tasting menus, particularly surprise menus, particularly because they have favorite foods. My recommendation is to go to places that do your favorite foods well when you want them. When I dine at a restaurant where the chef is a significant talent, I'm not going to eat lobster, steak, duck, etc., but to eat the products of the chef's talents and I will gladly put myself in his hands eating his choices for the night. The ability to relinquish all control over my meal is the ultimate freedom a chef can offer me. I'll gladly do it, but only it I have very good reason to respect the chef's talent.

Admin: the thread for 2005 discussion of Per Se may be found here.

[jimk]

Hey folks -

A couple of observations on Per Se that I haven't seen elsewhere. I've been a few times, most recently in September. I now notice on their web site that all menus (ie the 5 course, the 7 course and the veg tasting) are now $175 - that's a pretty hefty price jump for the 5 course, which I recall being more like $125. Has anyone been since this change in pricing? Are the 5-course offerings appreciably different from what they were before the price hike?

Another issue that I thought folks might be interested in ... back in September I posted some remarks here about some service problems that put a damper on our last visit to Per Se (I'm sure there's some way I could link to my post that I don't know - you can find it by going to page 18 of this topic - my post was on Sept. 7).

In any case, a few folks here suggested I write the restaurant a letter and raise my concerns, which I did. Received a letter back a few weeks later apologizing for the problems, graciously thanking me for raising the issues (saying that they had used parts of my letter at service meetings) and expressing a hope that I'd give them "another opportunity." The individual (titled Director of Operations) who wrote the letter asked me to please contact him directly to make my next reservation. I thought that was a nice gesture - to spare me the usual "redial, redial and wait on hold for a half-hour" hassle. I decided to call today and realized the only number he gave me was for the main reservation number. So the gesture is that I get to go through the whole drill PLUS then ask for him and wait on hold again so that he can take my reservation personally? Odd.

Maybe I'm being unreasonable? I really want this place to succeed ...

JK

[zeitoun]

I now notice on their web site that all menus (ie the 5 course, the 7 course and the veg tasting) are now $175 - that's a pretty hefty price jump for the 5 course, which I recall being more like $125.

←

I checked it out - I was first surprised to see that they now have a real functionning website, but then even more surprised to find out that you were right.

Is this an indication that not enough cash is coming in to cover their operating costs?

I wonder if they also jacked up the prices on wines...

[oakapple]

I now notice on their web site that all menus (ie the 5 course, the 7 course and the veg tasting) are now $175 - that's a pretty hefty price jump for the 5 course, which I recall being more like $125.

←

I checked it out - I was first surprised to see that they now have a real functionning website, but then even more surprised to find out that you were right.

Is this an indication that not enough cash is coming in to cover their operating costs?

I wonder if they also jacked up the prices on wines...

←

Keller must have huge costs in New York, and significant up-front investments to recoup. Yet, until now, Per Se carried the same prices as The French Laundry. Since it's practically the toughest rez in town, simple economics suggest that Keller wasn't charging enough. This had to happen sooner or later. The surprise is that all three menus are now $175, whereas before they were differentiated.