Trotters, sweetbreads, and gammon

[MobyP]

I thought I'd try some unusual cooking this week. I have some long cut pig's trotters from borough market, some calf sweetbreads, and a big chunk of bone-in gammon knuckle (the pig shank) - and I'm looking for suggestions.

Has anyone ever stuffed trotters before? I tried it once, following the FL Keller recipe, but the skin of the trotters fell apart before I could stuff them. Any suggestions?

And is it important to blanch sweetbreads before cooking, or is that only for de-skining them? Should I cut them into small pieces before blanching, or leave whole?

All suggestions appreciated.

[tissue]

Ooh.. maybe you can marinate the pig shank and then slow roast it to crisp up the skin.

[McDuff]

I always blanched sweetbreads before skinning them, and then pressed them. You're supposed to do that with brains, the blanching, but I once worked with this fool who took calf brains, sliced them raw, breaded them and fried them, and sent them up to the bar for unsuspecting customers to snack on. They were grossly bloody to begin with. Should have been soaked for a while. I like my sweetbreads with shallots, olives, mushrooms, demiglace and madeira.

[DavidG]

Moby

I dont know about the sweet breads but what about using the trotter/gammon in a slow cooked dish. The trotter especially will add lots of flavour and character to a stew what about somthing with sasuaes and dried beans (just brown the trotterer at the start and leave it to simer with the rest of the dish, at the end either chick it or remove the meat)

David

[MobyP]

DavidG - Welcome top eGullet! And thanks for the tip. The trotters have very little meat in them, though, which is why I was considering stuffing them - a classic SW French approach (I'm told). I think the knuckle/gammon is the better stew or braising cut.

Also, I've started keeping the odd trotter in the freezer, because it improves the body of chicken stocks enormously. I just want to take it to the next step. Use these elements to make something that transcends them.

Thanks also to Tissue and McDuff. Keep the tips coming!

[jackal10]

Some bone the pigs trotter raw, some cook it first.

Its much easier if you cook it first (long slow braise), then bone it out, stuff it, wrap it (cling film or muslin), then poach. You'll tear the skin a bit when boning, but the stuffing forcemeat will hold it together when cooked.

Otherwise bread crumb and grill the cooked trotter...

[MobyP]

Okay - I finally did this dish, taking from the Keller FL, and the White recipe.

Boned them - this wasn't difficult, just a question of getting used to the anatomy.

Braised them - though no browning first. Mirepoix, white wine, a touch of port, chx stock @ 350F for around 3 hours (Keller does 300F for 6 hours, but the skins practically disintergrated, and were unusable without tearing.

Removed, and let cool for an hour, then scraped as much of the internal fat, gristle etc off the skin, and trimmed to a mostly rectangle shape. Removed the small amount of meat from the bones, and set aside.

During which: pureed 200g of chicken breast with a little taragon and an egg (White, Koffman), forced through a tamis. Placing the bowl over ice, I stirred in 225ml double cream to make a mousseline. Covered, placed in the fridge.

Then: Took about a cup full of lamb sweetbreads (blanched, skinned, deveined, defatted), diced small and fried until slightly crispy. Stirred into the mousseline.

Soaked a small handfull of porcini, diced. Stirred in as well. Also the pork.

Placed the trotter skins on pigs caul (soaked and dried and cut to shape). Filled them like canoli (How are you supposed to do the sides? No one says. The skin is too thick to do it like a burrito). Rolled them in the caul x 3 (which also seals the edges, conveniently). Fried them to brown, then in a 325 oven for about 15 - 20 mins.

Served on some lovely lentils.

They were good. The filling was tasty, though I might have slightly overcooked them. The skin was incredibly soft - barely any resistence - but I found it a bit thick for my palate. Is this how they're supposed to be? Is there any way to get the skin thinner? Has anyone had them at the French Laundry? I know John Tseng had the Koffman ones - how thick was the skin?

[FaustianBargain]

Placed the trotter skins on pigs caul (soaked and dried and cut to shape). Filled them like canoli (How are you supposed to do the sides? No one says. The skin is too thick to do it like a burrito). Rolled them in the caul x 3 (which also seals the edges, conveniently). Fried them to brown, then in a 325 oven for about 15 - 20 mins.

thats interesting that you cooked a mousseline filling in the oven. i would have thought that the double cream consistency would have been suitable for poaching. the forcemeat sans the DC would have probably been good too. you have the already soggy trotters and then the DC filling(soft). maybe sealing the trotters first might have made them less soft..giving it a 'crust' of sorts? hoepfully, i will get to try this out in a kitchen one of these days. sounds delicious.

edited to add: is this the trotter that has been frozen since feb?!

Edited September 19, 2004 by Lalitha (log)

[MobyP]

thats interesting that you cooked a mousseline filling in the oven. i would have thought that the double cream consistency would have been suitable for poaching. the forcemeat sans the DC would have probably been good too. you have the already soggy trotters and then the DC filling(soft). maybe sealing the trotters first might have made them less soft..giving it a 'crust' of sorts? hoepfully, i will get to try this out in a kitchen one of these days. sounds delicious.

edited to add: is this the trotter that has been frozen since feb?!

←

No - I'm always buying the things to add to my stocks etc, so I usually have a couple lying around. (From the Ginger Pig - 50p each)

Lalitha - you're right about the poaching. Realised this morning that what I made was essentially a variation on a boudin blanc. The filling without the mousseline - braised pork shank, with sweetbreads and porcini - would have done well in the oven. The mousseline I should have treated with more respect. I found a boudin recipe that says poach at 80C for 20 mins. Then fry to brown the outsides. I could've done that - or steamed them.

I still wonder if it's possible to get a thinner skin, though. Ramsey does basically the above, then slices it into medallions, and fries until crispy, so the skin would be less apparent. Does anyone know a technique?

By the way - for anyone in the UK - Harvey Nichols meat department sold me - given no notice whatsoever - 10lbs of high quality veal bones (not just shank/knuckle), several portions of lamb sweetbbreads, and a couple of good-sized pieces of pig's caul - all at very reasonable prices. I don't know another butcher's in London who could've done that for me on a Sunday - or any other day of the week for that matter.

[Adam Balic]

Moby - bit late now but that sounds like some very interesting ingredients.

RE: thickness of the rind, well I guess it will depend on the age and the breed of the pig (possibly depends on if they are front or back legs, but I suspect that they only use the back), most likely the former. You remind me that I have some tiny G.O.S. trotters, sweet breads and pork cheeks in the freezer. As soon as the younger peasants come into season I think that it calls for a Choucroute Garni.

[McDuff]

No - I'm always buying the things to add to my stocks etc, so I usually have a couple lying around. (From the Ginger Pig - 50p each)

I was in the Ginger Pig, just looking, a couple of Sundays ago. I waded up Marylebone (sp?) stopping in every patisserie I could find and turned into Moxon St stuffing a cute little Sachertorte into my mouth. Didn't buy anything in the Ginger Pig but I spent a few pounds at Le Fromagerie. Cute neighborhood. I also got over to Borough Market, but that was on a Tuesday and of course it was empty, but I was headed for Neal's Yard Dairy anyway.

[MobyP]

As soon as the younger peasants come into season I think that it  calls for a Choucroute Garni.

←

I always heard you were a cruel bastard, but never an aristocratic cruel bastard! Oh the horror. Like an Ozzie Dennis Nielson.

I like what you say about the age, though I'm not sure what to do about it ("Kill them smaller!") I had a lovely stuffed trotter by Boulud, but I think it must've either been a sausage skin, or some suckling pig trotsky. Or possibly suffering from porcine lana turneritis, or piglet anorexia.

Let us know when you're doing your choucroute - I'd love to hear about your method. I want to do a confit pork belly and choucroute, a dish I had recently. The saurkraut cut the fatty pork marvelously.

p.s. the very small amount of meat that you get from the trotters is - after braising - fantastic and sticky. It's like the pork equivalent of the chicken oyster. Wish there was more of it.

Edited September 21, 2004 by MobyP (log)

[Adam Balic]

I always heard you were a cruel bastard, but never an aristocratic cruel bastard! Oh the horror. Like an Ozzie Dennis Nielson.

Let us know when you're doing your choucroute - I'd love to hear about your method. I want to do a confit pork belly and choucroute, a dish I had recently. The saurkraut cut the fatty pork marvelously.

←

Peasant? Not the first time I have made that mistake pre-first coffee of the morning.

As it will be some time before the choucroute (partridge salmi next dinner party, holiday in Spain, 17th century dinner party etc), I use the basic method from Robert Freson's "The Taste of France" (from a series in the Sunday Times in the early '80s) and chapters on the French provinces by eg Richard Olney, Alan Davidson, Arabella Boxer. This is a terrific book BTW and if you can get a second hand copy, you will be very lucky. Excellent photographs.

A fairly standard recipe (often I bake the choucroute, rather then ontop of the stove), except that it contains kitsch and juniper barries and it tastes wonderful, unlike many similar recipes.

[MobyP]

Thanks Adam. Found quite a few copies of Taste of France at Amazon. Mines on the way.

Edited September 21, 2004 by MobyP (log)

[balex]

Moby  - bit late now but that sounds like some very interesting ingredients.

RE: thickness of the rind, well I guess it will depend on the age and the breed of the pig (possibly depends on if they are front or back legs, but I suspect that they only use the back), most likely the former. You remind me that I have some tiny G.O.S. trotters, sweet breads and pork cheeks in the freezer. As soon as the younger peasants come into season I think that it  calls for a Choucroute Garni.

←

My brother had a party at La Tante Claire years ago, and everybody got a pigs trotter - since it was a long meal Koffman did the front trotter rather than the rear which is what they normally do, since it is a fair bit smaller. The skin is still quite thick and gelatinous (this was a long time ago and there was some good wine so my recollections might be faulty).

[MobyP]

Thanks Alex. I'm still curious about that Boulud version I had at Manoir. Does anyone know the Boulud recipe?

[FoodMan]

Fergus Henderson has a recipe for potato stuffed pig trotter in "The Whole Beast". I've been meaning to try it but have not gotten a chance to yet. Anyone else did?

Elie