NY State Crushes Osborne's Dream

[Craig Camp]

John Osborne is sitting in an empty shop. It's his wine shop, but you wouldn't know it. There's no sign out front. There isn't even any wine in the store. Wine racks lie in boxes in the back of the store. Osborne would like to line the walls with the racks, but he can't. Osborne doesn't have a liquor license.

[jhlurie]

I dunno. Maybe there's part of this story I'm not seeing, but as bad as I feel for the guy my sympathy is someone limited for someone who goes out, takes a lease on a store, buys lots of stuff to fill the store with, spends all kind of money on renovation, all BEFORE he's secured the liquor license. Was getting one really considered so inevitable before this "ban" that making sure you have the license in-hand first wasn't a good way to use a few watts of brainpower? Is the missing part of the story perhaps that he actually was well into the process of approval and was just waiting for a physical piece of paper or something? It might temper my scorn a bit if he actually thought he had the license, except for the dead tree.

EDIT to say: Well, at least he hadn't gone ahead and bought the wine (is the license needed in-hand to deal with distributors?). If he had, I'm sorry... my sympathy would have been even more strained. It just doesn't wash with me--"hey, I'm going to open a wine store, so I'll put together my store and THEN make sure I'm allowed to sell wine." Sorry, if this makes me sound like a bad person.

Edited June 18, 2003 by jhlurie (log)

[Craig Camp]

It is my understanding that in most states you cannot get a liquor license until your place of business passes local building and safety code inspections. For instance in Illinois a restaurant cannot get it liquor license processed until it is essentially ready to open for business. This is why many restaurants do not have liquor licenses until several weeks after they open. This even happens to big corporate restaurants and hotels.

[jhlurie]

Well, what that fact adds to the mix was a need for two things:

1.) Some kind of grandfather clause, as long as you can prove your operation was well under way before this ban.

2.) Some change in the approval process (presumably they may let more licenses trickle through in small doses in the future and then cut them off again), so that you enter some kind of preliminary application before you get the building and its honored as long as you fulfill the requirements.

I suppose I'm confused. If you are supposed to have a completed facility before you apply for the license... did it really mean that formerly NOBODY was turned down? Could it really have worked that way?

Also, the requirements for a liquor license for a bar and one for a wine/liquor store HAVE to be different in some fashion. With a bar, you've got all kinds of requirments that a store wouldn't (especially a wine store--which unlike a full "liquor store" might not need refrigeration). A wine store can be a box with a roof and sprinklers. Surely, the extra steps make a lot more sense for a bar, because likely as not (at least for bars in this part of the world) they are going to serve food anyway.

Edited June 18, 2003 by jhlurie (log)

[Craig Camp]

Well, what that fact adds to the mix was a need for two things:

1.) Some kind of grandfather clause, as long as you can prove your operation was well under way before this ban.

2.) Some change in the approval process (presumably they may let more licenses trickle through in small doses in the future and then cut them off again), so that you enter some kind of preliminary application before you get the building and its honored as long as you fulfill the requirements.

I suppose I'm confused.  If you are supposed to have a completed facility before you apply for the license... did it really mean that formerly NOBODY was turned down?  Could it really have worked that way?

Also, the requirements for a liquor license for a bar and one for a wine/liquor store HAVE to be different in some fashion.  With a bar, you've got all kinds of requirments that a store wouldn't (especially a wine store--which unlike a full "liquor store" might not need refrigeration).  A wine store can be a box with a roof and sprinklers.  Surely, the extra steps make a lot more sense for a bar, because likely as not (at least for bars in this part of the world) they are going to serve food anyway.

No the store will have all kinds of regulations to meet - bathrooms, handicap access, fire exits and on and on...

I am no expert on NY state license regulations so I hope someone can fill us in on the details.

[Fat Guy]

Whether or not this is the best illustration of the stupidity of the new law, the new law is nonetheless exceptionally stupid.

[jhlurie]

Whether or not this is the best illustration of the stupidity of the new law, the new law is nonetheless exceptionally stupid.

Well we can all agree on that.

Is there anywhere where liquor control/licensing is completely above board? Not horribly corrupt, or somehow messed up by politicians? For pity's sake, look at New Jersey. Organized crime, million dollar paydays, mysteriously quick approvals for every TGIF...

[JohnO]

John Osborne here. I'm a little surprised that my story has become a discussion topic, but let me clarify some of the issues raised so far.

[*]Before the moratorium, liquor licenses for stores in NY State were issued pretty much on request. You cannot be a convicted felon, a retired police officer (don't ask me why), or an employee of a licensed wholesaler of alcoholic products and be issued a license. You also cannot accept financing from any of those same sources. The premises must also meet certain requirements. I retained an attorney who specializes in NY State liquor laws, who reviewed my situation and assured me that there would be no problem obtaining a license under the system in place before the moratorium took effect.

[*]The license application process can take up to 2 months. Since, in most cases, the approval is a foregone conclusion if you meet the criteria, one wants to use that time to prepare the store space for business, so that upon the issuance of the license, one can then get a C of O from the local authorities and open. The C of O is not a criteria for the license, but the license is needed for the C of O. Additionally, once the space is completed, photos of the premises are required by the State Liquor Authority.

[*]A signed lease for the premises is a required part of the application process. You must have a commitment in order to apply for the license.

Update

Before breaking for summer recess, both the NY State Assembly and the NY State Senate passed budget cleanup bills that contain an amendment that completely repeals the 5 year moratorium. The repeals are identical, but are part of larger bills that contain significant differences between the Republican controlled Senate version and the Democrat controlled Assembly version. At some point in the fall, when the Legislature reconvenes, these bills will be addressed and the repeal should go through. However, we all know how politics work...