I said ESPRESSO not expresso

[siena_us]

Malachi, if we're talking about Italian coffee here, and not to get Pedantic, aren't Cafe Lungo and Cafe Doppio two different things? If you want a tall, you ask for a doppio, a double. Ristretto is the stronger of the two, while Lungo is much weaker, perhaps watered down?

A doppio is a double shot of espresso in the same cup (you either use the double gruppo or better yet, do two single shots). A lungo is letting the coffee run long which makes it weaker. Ristretto is about 2/3 the amount of a regular espresso. Lungo is about 50-75% more liquid.

[JosephB]

We drink mocha at home, and have been very happy with Lavazza's Qualita Rosso, which is ground and vacuum packed.

At first I was reluctant to admit it, but I have come to find the espresso at Starbucks quite good, especially given the convenience factor. For daily espresso drinkers, it is simply not practical to travel for an espresso after lunch, even in NYC. In Italy, "Bar" is ubiquitous. For better or worse, Starbucks is becoming our "Bar." When convenience permits a superior espresso, I am there, but on most days I'm content with the branch of Starbucks near my office.

By the way, as often is the case, a very interesting and informative discussion. Thank you.

[Bux]

ristretto here in Italy is the same grind. Ristretto means tight, you make a coffee with the same type and amount of grinds but just get the first part of the run which has more of the coffee flavor. The longer you let it run, the weaker the coffee that comes out.

That's always been my understanding. A ristretto is an espresso with less run time resulting in a shorter shot. It's stronger because the first part of the run is stronger than the last part.

[Craig Camp]

ristretto here in Italy is the same grind. Ristretto means tight, you make a coffee with the same type and amount of grinds but just get the first part of the run which has more of the coffee flavor. The longer you let it run, the weaker the coffee that comes out.

That's always been my understanding. A ristretto is an espresso with less run time resulting in a shorter shot. It's stronger because the first part of the run is stronger than the last part.

This is also my understanding. The bars in our town always serve you a ristretto unless you request otherwise.

[vengroff]

The bars in our town always serve you a ristretto unless you request otherwise.

If you find yourself on Capitol Hill in DC, Murky Coffee does a ristretto. They used to be in Georgetown too, but lost their lease.

[malachi]

I have a theory about people who order a ristretto shot.  People will order a shot of espresso this way for two reasons: they know what they are talking about (unlikely) or they want to appear as if they know what they are talking about.  In my experience most people order a ristretto shot because they are tired of getting served a long shot (i.e. demitasse full of espresso) when they order an espresso.  In an effort to clarify what they want they will ask for a ‘ristretto’ shot, to make it abundantly clear they want a short shot.  In reality I don’t think that they would know a true ristretto shot from a stupendous ol’ short shot if it came up and nipped them in the bum.  The standard I teach is a 1 oz shot of espresso, not including crema.  Unless otherwise requested I believe that this should be the default volume served in all espresso based drinks.  I have served this to people asking for a ristretto shot and have only had positive feedback in return.  To serve a true ristretto shot (.75 oz of liquid in 25 seconds) an adjustment to the grinder is required and is not realistic or recommended (NOTE: The preparation of a ristretto shot is highly debated with no definitive answers.  The above is one of only many “right” ways to prepare a ristretto shot).  A lazy man’s ristretto shot is as simple as pulling the cup out from under the pour when only .75 oz of liquid has run through.  Please, don’t be lazy.

From CoffeeGeek Etiquette and the Ristretto Shot

[balex]

I get the impression from the discussion above that the distinction between a 'ristretto' and a 'short shot' is not one that exists in the average italian bar. Is this distinction something that is widely recognised or is it an American coffee geek term?

Question 2: How does this volume of 1 fluid ounce (American rather than Imperial I guess) compare to the actual volumes in normal Southern Italian bars -- e.g. in Rome or Naples? Because there is quite a variation in volume among good bars.

[Jim Dixon]

How does this volume of 1 fluid ounce (American rather than Imperial I guess) compare to the actual volumes in normal Southern Italian bars -- e.g. in Rome or Naples? Because there is quite a variation in volume among good bars.

My experience is that un cafe will get smaller and smaller as you move south. I've never ordered anything but a cafe (or cappucino...but only American tourists ask for espresso), and even in Tuscany the standard is pretty small, probably about the 1 oz mentioned above. In Sicily, you get a thick black film at the bottom of the cup.

Jim

[menton1]

Yes it is amazing, but true. One of the best things about getting off the airplane when you have arrived, usually at about 9AM, is to go to a café and have that first cup of coffee!! It's usually too early to check in, so you just have to soak up that first European fix as you swoon with jet lag. But that coffee is like heaven!! What a difference!

[malachi]

Malachi, if we're talking about Italian coffee here, and not to get Pedantic, aren't Cafe Lungo and Cafe Doppio two different things? If you want a tall, you ask for a doppio, a double. Ristretto is the stronger of the two, while Lungo is much weaker, perhaps watered down?

I don't think this is quite correct (though I could be wrong). As I understand it...

Luongo is a thinner, sharper and higher volume espresso.

Ristretto is a thicker, rounder and lower volume espresso.

They're more regional styles than anything else in my experience, but you can order either style in many cases.

Doppio is, as you say, a double -- but can be Luongo or Ristretto.

Many people say that the Ristretto is the "gourmand" espresso, but in my experience it has more to do with the roast than anything else. In southern italy (where espresso roasts are commonly dark and oily) you often have no choice but to do a ristretto shot to avoid excessive bitterness, while in Northern Italy (where roasts are far lighter) a ristretto shot is not required, and the (arguably more difficult) Luongo can be pulled without exposing the roast.

[malachi]

My experience is that un cafe will get smaller and smaller as you move south. I've never ordered anything but a cafe (or cappucino...but only American tourists ask for espresso), and even in Tuscany the standard is pretty small, probably about the 1 oz mentioned above. In Sicily, you get a thick black film at the bottom of the cup.

Jim

My experience is the same. Higher volume (and lighter roast) the further north you get, lower volume (and darker roast) the further south.

[malachi]

... or better yet, do two single shots...

I have to say you're the first person I've ever heard claim better results from singles than doubles. Most quality espresso bars in the US have standardized on double shots due to the difficulties in getting a flat pack and tamp and consistent fill. I know that my single shots are dramatically inferior to my half-double shots. Then again, my shots pulled on the right grouphead are inferior to the other groupheads, so who knows. It could all be in my head.

[slkinsey]

I get the impression from the discussion above that  the distinction between a 'ristretto' and a 'short shot' is not one that exists in the average italian bar.  Is this distinction something that is widely recognised or is it an American coffee geek term?

You're right. The reason that there is no difference between "ristretto" and "a short shot" in Italy is that they are the same thing!

Ristretto is the past participle of restringere, which means "to reduce; to make smaller." Therefore, un caffè ristretto is nothing more than "a (regular) coffee that has been made smaller." Functionally, this is saying the same thing as "give me a little less than the usual amount" or, if you like, "run me a short shot."

With all due respect to the CoffeeGeekers, the idea that a ristretto shot requires an adjustment of the grinder and is somehow fundamentally different from simply stopping the machine at 3/4 ounce instead of 1 ounce is patently ridiculous. Hello? We're talking about something they do in Italy. What they do not do in Italy, in my experience, is grind their coffee on a per-shot basis or make grinder adjustments when someone requests caffè ristretto. That said, I do tend to agree that people in America who specify "ristretto" most often do so to avoid getting the typical caffè lungissimo that most places seem to serve over here. That said, I have found that the places likely to serve you something like this will only get confused if you say "ristretto " to them, not having any idea what that word means. In those cases, one is more likely to get something approaching the desired effect by saying "only fill my espresso cup 1/3 of the way when you run my shot."