"Velveting"

[IrishCream]

I have been wanting to experiment with more Chinese cooking at home but have been deterred byt the fact that many otherwise simple stir-fry dishes call for the meat to go through the velveting or "passing through hot oil" process. To me this complicates a simple stir fry. I really prefer not to deal with hot oil unless I have to (because I am deep-frying).

So my question...is it really necessary? If not, how do i tweak the recipe to compensate for the fact I have omitted that step?

[johnjohn]

Irishcream thanks for starting this thread. I have also been thinking about this for some time and have come across it many times in my research of Chinese cuisine. I have read that velveting can also be done in simmering water instead of oil. Has anyone tried this? Does a certain protein work better than others when velveting?

johnjohn

[pjs]

I've recently started using the velveting technique in some recipies.

I think it makes a real difference in the finished product. All you really need beyond what's needed for a stir-fry is a strainer over a pot for draining and some extra oil which you can reuse.

And everyone knows reused oil tastes better. Up to a point. Of course.

PJ

[Mr. Toast]

Barbara Tropp has a very good discussion of velveting in her two cookbooks. I believe she recommends velveting shrimp in water, chicken in either water or oil, and beef and pork in oil.

And yes, in my experience velveting makes a big difference.

[Stone]

Can you describe this more? I think it may be what I'm missing. I always find that chicken, for example, has a much different . . .sheen? from a restaurant than when I stir-fry at home. It that velveting?

[Fat Guy]

http://www.themediadrome.com/content/artic...t_velveting.htm

(STAFF NOTE: That link is now broken, but the site can be accessed via the Wayback Machine. - CH, 4/1/2011)

Edited April 2, 2011 by Chris Hennes
Added Wayback Machine link (log)

[Stone]

Damn. I think I just became a better cook, without entering the kitchen.

[eatingwitheddie]

Virtually every protein has a better texture when it is velveted in oil. The almost invisible egg white and cornstarch coating adds a smooth texture. A good trick is to add a tablespoon of oil to the marinade. This helps to promote the smoothness. Adding some salt to the marinade 'denatures' the protein and after 12 hours or so breaks it down and tenderizes it. By passing the food through oil rather than stir-frying it, one counts on the oil to transmit the heat. If the food is cut precisely, and surrounded by the hot oil, THE HEAT IS EVEN ALL AROUND and all the food cooks at precisely the same rate. In traditional stir-frying the heat is transmitted randomly as pieces of protein come in contact with the surface of the pan. Therefore velveting and egg white marination gives 1) more precise control of texture 2) a more tender product.

While it is possible to velvet chicken and seafood in water, the cooking takes longer because of the water's lower temperature (212 max and much lower after the food goes in), plus the water washes the food and removes flavor. I find it acceptable for dietary reasons but inferior in terms of finished product.

If you try to velvet meat in liquid it will quickly toughen, unless you are using a cut that is naturally extremely tender such as a beef filet or pork tenderloin. Even then you'll be washing it and diluting its natural flavor. Not highly recommended.

It is very important that egg white marinated foods be cooked at no more than 300 degress F., or the pieces will stick to one another.

Sometimes I may marinate protein and then realize I don't have much oil around. I don't hesitate to stir-fry it in the traditional manner using a couple of tablespoons of oil. If I make a tasty sauce and am good about vegetable texture I can get quite a good result.

I know velveting sounds intimidating but in fact it's quite simple once you're accustomed it. Just make sure to have a strainer suspended over an oil pot right next to your wok.

Edited March 26, 2003 by eatingwitheddie (log)

[eatingwitheddie]

http://www.themediadrome.com/content/artic...t_velveting.htm

These directions are good but:

Don't do it in much in advance because

1) It isn't as good as when it's freshly done

2) If you let it sit warm and covered it will promote bacterial growth and everyone who eats it is in harm's way

3) The recipe gives the impression that after velveting the chicken is then stir-fried. This is only kind of true. After velveting the chicken should just be tossed in the seasoning sauce for a few seconds. This is about flavoring NOT cooking it further. That should have been taken care of by the velveting.

[johnjohn]

What type of oil do you use and how many times can you reuse it?

thanks

johnjohn

[eatingwitheddie]

What type of oil do you use and how many times can you reuse it?

thanks

johnjohn

Any flavorless or flavor complimentary oil.

Soy is most typical. Corn, canola, cottonseed, peanut, lard, all work well. No olive oil please (unless it is flavorless), wrong set of tastes.

[pjs]

What type of oil do you use and how many times can you reuse it?

thanks

johnjohn

I've been using mostly peanut oil, but I also use corn and canola. How many times you can reuse the oil it is a judgement call. Just make sure to strain it well and store it in the fridge. I'd think even the high-end restaurants aren't tossing a quart of oil with every order. Maybe Ed can enlighten us.

At the other end of the spectrum, when I worked a fryolator I remember we changed the oil about once a week. For velveting I'd conservatively say you could reuse it at least 3 or 4 times.

PJ

PS Forgot to mention a thermometer is essential. 300 degrees.

[eatingwitheddie]

Oil, how many times can you reuse it?

RECYCLING OIL WHEN VELVETING FOOD

When you velvet food a great deal of moisture is released into the oil. Usually you're working with a colander/strainer suspended over a pot to catch the velveting oil. The technique for recycling the oil is to let the oil sit undisturbed for a short time; the moisture will sink to the bottom and then the oil on the top is reused. If the oil hasn't been heated to a very high temperature, let's say that it's been kept under 350 degrees F., you can reuse it 5-10 times though you may want to add some fresh oil as you go along. That is what takes place in a restaurant setting where it's being used time after time during one evening. Most chefs feel that oil that has been used already has a better flavor. What is essential however is that when you store oil that has already been used you must get the moisture out of it first or it will turn bad. To do this pour the oil out of the oil pot into your wok taking care not to use the oil from the bottom of the pot which is full of mositure and should be discarded. Now heat the oil in your wok and it will start to make cracking noises. You need to be careful about not getting too much moisture in the oil or it will splatter and can become dangerous. When the cracking subsides the moisture has been evaporated and you can now let it cool and then cover and store it until you want to use it again. I would suggest refrigerating this oil in case there still is a bit of residual moisture. Theoretically it will stay fresh for a couple of months, but I would suggest using it up more quickly than that.

An interesting detail is that recycled oil is more appropriate for stir-fry dishes with dark colored sauces. When I make a white sauce I always start with fresh oil to maximize the lightness/ clear white color of the finished product. Recycled oil tends to produce a less clean looking result which is masked by a dark sauce.

Edited March 28, 2003 by eatingwitheddie (log)

[eatingwitheddie]

I've been using mostly peanut oil, but I also use corn and canola.

With regard to using peanut oil for your cooking, unlike regular vegetable oils which are flavorless, peanut oil has a distinct taste. Depending upon what you're doing, it may or may not be a complimentary flavor. Planters, the main American peanut oil is quite mildly flavored, but the Hong Kong peanut oils such as Lion & Globe brand have MUCH more flavor. I find them particularly delicious but would prefer to see them used for a spicy Szechuan dish. Whereas a subtle Cantonese seafood item might, in my opinion, be overwhelmed by that sort of nuttiness. Anyway freshly rendered lard really tastes better than anything else! Cantonese chefs even use chicken fat as a flavoring. If only Grandma Goldie knew!!

Edited March 28, 2003 by eatingwitheddie (log)

[pjs]

Thanks for explaining the oil issues Ed. The peanut oil I've been using is a nondescript store brand without much flavor. I like the high heat tolerance for frying things like french fries. I have three quart jars of used oil in the fridge at the moment. One for velveting, one for fries and one for breaded seafood.

I also have a jar of rendered chicken fat that I use for finishing Cantonese recipies that call for it. Of course I also use the chicken fat when I'm making chopped liver.

PJ

[eatingwitheddie]

So, how are we doing with our velveting?

[snowangel]

So, how are we doing with our velveting?

Been velveting for years without any trouble, thanks to my "cooking classes" at Wei-Chuan in Taiwan lo those many years ago (mid '70's). Barbara Tropp does a nice job of explaining, as well, but as stated earlier in this thread, I'd go with oil for just about everyting.

Not velveting deprives.

[IrishCream]

Sigh...I am still wishing I could find a way to avoid it, but this thread has pretty much convinced me that it is worth the extra effort (and fat calories?). I dug through my cupboards and found a little contraption called a "Fry Baby" that I haven't used in years....it allows one to deep fry small quantities without a ton of oil. But I still need Sichuan Peppercorns! Any thoughts on that, Eddie?

[eatingwitheddie]

Sigh...I am still wishing I could find a way to avoid it, but this thread has pretty much convinced me that it is worth the extra effort (and fat calories?).  I dug through my cupboards and found a little contraption called a "Fry Baby" that I haven't used in years....it allows one to deep fry small quantities without a ton of oil.  But I still need Sichuan Peppercorns!  Any thoughts on that, Eddie? 

Don't use a deep fryer, use your wok, and make sure you have an

oil pot with a colander suspended over it right next to it before starting.

The reason you shouldn't use your fryer is that when you velvet egg white and cornstarch marinated food, the pieces tend to stick together, especially if the oil a is a little bit too hot. One of the essential parts of the process is to swirl or stir the food in the oil immediately after putting it there. Your goal is to separate the pieces from one another quickly so that they cook evenly. The deep fryer complicates this needlessly. The wok is made for it and it seems a simple and natural thing to do.

As far as extra calories go I don't think so. Why? Well both techniques call for cooking the protein in oil. When you velvet food you remove it from the wok and clean out the pan before saucing. You will need to add about 1T of oil back into the pan in order to sauce the food. If you were to stir-fry that same protein you'd need about 2-3 tablespoons of oil in the wok and that would most likely be incorporated into the sauce. There is typically more oil in the final product of a stir-fried dish than in a velveted one.

Edited April 4, 2003 by eatingwitheddie (log)

[margaret]

What effect would velveting have on tofu or soy protein?

[stellarWOK]

So, how are we doing with our velveting?

I realize this thread seems to have died several months ago, but I picked it up from a Google search about Velveting Chicken. So, if anyone is still tracking this topic, I'd appreciate the input.

Granted, velveting imparts a distinctive texture to the food prepared in this way. So far, the techniques here mention velveting with oil. In another forum, I found references to velveting with boiling water, or perhaps broth. Has anyone compared these techiques? Supposedly, the non-oil method makes a "softer, livelier" texture. any thoughts?

[mudbug]

margaret,

Why would you want to do that to tofu? Unless it's the hard tofu, the others already have a velvety surface.

stellarWOK,

..the oil method gives the meat a firmer texture, the water method produces a softer coating.

From: The Key to Chinese Cooking by Irene Kuo

Even in the water method, there should be a bit of oil (one quart water/one tablespoon oil). Just try it both methods at the same time from the same meat and see if you can tell a difference...

Some will say certain meats are better with one method versus another.

[stellarWOK]

I'm sorry...did I mention tofu? I was thinking primarily of chicken and beef. I've encountered velveted Kung Pao Chicken at a restaurtant in San Diego. It ws the most unique version of Kung Pao I've ever had, and the most memorable. Unlike the usual thigh meat, it seemd to be velveted white meat.

I was trying to cut down on experimenting since each attempt at the the perfect Kun Pao is a very controlled set of variables.

No?

[mudbug]

stellarWOK,

If you check the post again, you'll notice the first was a response for margaret.

;)

As for experimentation, I don't see that it would be difficult as velveting is the prep for the rest of the dish.

Just prepare everything you need, divide the meat in half, velvet with each method and continue with the rest of the recipe for each. It's the only way you're going to know for sure for yourself.

[titus wong]

Eddie:

Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but I've read it countless times in order to assimilate the information. I have 2 questions:

1. As a professional chef, do you use a thermometer every time you velvet food in order to gauge the optimum temperature of 300º F. precisely, or do you have a short-hand method of doing this? I have read from various sources that you can dip a scallion or a chopstick into the oil and observe how rapidly it effervesces. Supposedly, if a constant stream of small bubbles arises from a chopstick, the oil is hot enough to begin velveting. Is this a reliable method or is it hooey? Can you suggest an alternative, or do you recommend a thermometer?

2. After velveting, the protein retains a great deal of oil. Do you recommend blotting the food on paper towels? Is there a better way to drain the residual oil from the protein or do you just proceed with the recipe as is?

I must admit, I've only velveted food for those rare occasions when I'm entertaining and want to impress. Usually, I skip velveting and simply stir-fry the meat component in most dishes. Naturally the meat is drier, and the overall dish no doubt suffers for the omission. As I have no aspirations of becoming a professional chef however, I choose to skip velveting for dietary reasons and as a matter of convenience. Folks still seem to be able to stomach the end result regardless.