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liuzhou

liuzhou

On 8/6/2021 at 8:05 PM, Anna N said:

Can you address the myths, superstitions and etiquette surrounding chopsticks, please. 
 

 

Sure, although I can only think of one myth that may not be a myth at all. I'll deal with that first.

 

Most etymologies will tell you that the 'chop' in 'chopsticks' means 'quick', as in the expression 'chop-chop' and came into being through a Pidgin English spoken in China in colonial times.

 

I'm not so sure. (kuài) means quick and 筷子 (kuài zi) means 'chopsticks'. The kuài  pronunciation in both are the same but not the characters. They are homophones, but have different meanings as well as being written differently, a common feature of Chinese. There are thousands of such examples.

 

Also, I can't find any evidence of any Chinese dialect or other source pronouncing kuài anything like 'chop'. Nor can I think of any reason why the pronunciation would have changed so dramatically

It may be possible that the character used in chopsticks was introduced later, but again I can find no evidence of that in any of my Chinese sources.

I'll leave that one open until I can delve further, but even my favourite source, the OED, gets in a complete tangle with this.

Note: this meaning of chop is unrelated to that in 'chop-suey'.

As to superstitions and etiquette, I'd say they overlap.

 

The most serious chopstick faux pas is to plant your chopsticks upright in your rice bowl and leave them there. This is a symbol of death as it resembles incense being burned in honour of the departed.

If you need to put your chopsticks down, use the chopstick rests supplied, if any. If not, lay them flat across the rim of your bowl, but not pointing at anyone (see below).

Dropping a chopstick is also considered unlucky, but happens all the time. Not serious at all.

 

Stabbing or piercing food to pick it up is a no-no. If it's difficult to catch hold something, use your chopsticks to slide the food into a spoon, then convey that to your bowl.

Using your chopsticks as drum sticks is very rude, as is pointing at anyone with them. Playing with them is strongly discouraged in children; unthinkable for adults.

Don't dig around in a plate of food to find the choice bits. This is referred to as 'grave digging' and again bad luck (as well as bad manners).

Don't lick your chopsticks.

I'm sure there are more, but those are what come to mind immediately.

 

Neither taboo or superstition, but the mistake most chopstick neophytes make is to hold the chopsticks too near the points. They should be held near the top. It seems counter-intuitive to many people, but they are much easier to control that way.

 

You will see guides on how to hold chopsticks 'correctly'. Ignore most of them. I've seen Chinese people hold them in many different ways. The trick is to hold to hold one steady and move the other one. If you try to move both, you will go hungry!

liuzhou

liuzhou

1 hour ago, Anna N said:

Can you address the myths, superstitions and etiquette surrounding chopsticks, please. 
 

 

Sure, although I can only think of one myth that may not be a myth at all. I'll deal with that first.

 

Most etymologies will tell you that the 'chop' in 'chopsticks' means 'quick', as in the expression 'chop-chop' and came into being through a Pidgin English spoken in China in colonial times.

 

I'm not so sure. (kuài) means quick and 筷子 (kuài zi) means 'chopsticks'. The kuài  pronunciation in both are the same but not the characters. They are homophones, but have different meanings as well as being written differently, a common feature of Chinese. There are thousands of such examples.

 

Also, I can't find any evidence of any Chinese dialect or other source pronouncing kuài anything like 'chop'. Nor can I think of any reason why the pronunciation would have changed so dramatically

It may be possible that the character used in chopsticks was introduced later, but again I can find no evidence of that in any of my Chinese sources.

I'll leave that one open until I can delve further, but even my favourite source, the OED, gets in a complete tangle with this.

Note: this meaning of chop is unrelated to that in 'chop-suey'.

As to superstitions and etiquette, I'd say they overlap.

 

The most serious chopstick faux pas is to plant your chopsticks upright in your rice bowl and leave them there. This is a symbol of death as it resembles incense being burned in honour of the departed.

If you need to put your chopsticks down, use the chopstick rests supplied, if any. If not, lay them flat across the rim of your bowl, but not pointing at anyone (see below).

Dropping a chopstick is also considered unlucky, but happens all the time. Not serious at all.

 

Stabbing or piercing food to pick it up is a no-no. If it's difficult to catch hold something, use a your chopsticks to slide the food into a spoon, then convey that to your bowl.

Using your chopsticks as drum sticks is very rude, as is pointing at anyone with them. Playing with them is strongly discouraged in children; unthinkable for adults.

Don't dig around in a plate of food to find the choice bits. This is referred to as 'grave digging' and again bad luck (as well as bad manners).

Don't lick your chopsticks.

I'm sure there are more, but those are what come to mind immediately.

 

Neither taboo or superstition, but the mistake most chopstick neophytes make is to hold the chopsticks too near the points. They should be held near the top. It seems counter-intuitive to many people, but they are much easier to control that way.

 

You will see guides on how to hold chopsticks 'correctly'. Ignore most of them. I've seen Chinese people hold them in many different ways. The trick is to hold to hold one steady and move the other one. If you try to move both, you will go hungry!

liuzhou

liuzhou

1 hour ago, Anna N said:

Can you address the myths, superstitions and etiquette surrounding chopsticks, please. 
 

 

Sure, although I can only think of one myth that may not be a myth at all. I'll deal with that first.

 

Most etymologies will tell you that the 'chop' in 'chopsticks' means 'quick', as in the expression 'chop-chop' and came into being through a Pidgin English spoken in China in colonial times.

 

I'm not so sure. (kuài) means quick and 筷子 (kuài zi) means 'chopsticks'. The kuài  pronunciation in both are the same but not the characters. They are homophones, but have different meanings as well as being written differently, a common feature of Chinese. There are thousands of such examples.

Also, I can't find any evidence of any Chinese dialect or other source pronouncing kuài anything like 'chop'. Nor can I think of any reason why the pronunciation woul dhave changed so dramatically

It may be possible that the character used in chopsticks was introduced later, but again I can find no evidence of that in any of my Chinese sources.

I'll leave that one open until I can delve further, but even my favourite source, the OED, gets in a complete tangle with this.

Note: this meaning of chop is unrelated to that in 'chop-suey'.

As to superstitions and etiquette, I'd say they overlap.

 

The most serious chopstick faux pas is to plant your chopsticks upright in your rice bowl and leave them there. This is a symbol of death as it resembles incense being burned in honour of the departed.

If you need to put your chopsticks down, use the chopstick rests supplied, if any. If not, lay them flat across the rim of your bowl, but not pointing at anyone (see below).

Dropping a chopstick is also considered unlucky, but happens all the time. Not serious at all.

 

Stabbing or piercing food to pick it up is a no-no. If it's difficult to catch hold something, use a your chopsticks to slide the food into a spoon, then convey that to your bowl.

Using your chopsticks as drum sticks is very rude, as is pointing at anyone with them. Playing with them is strongly discouraged in children; unthinkable for adults.

Don't dig around in a plate of food to find the choice bits. This is referred to as 'grave digging' and again bad luck (as well as bad manners).

Don't lick your chopsticks.

I'm sure there are more, but those are what come to mind immediately.

 

Neither taboo or superstition, but the mistake most chopstick neophytes make is to hold the chopsticks too near the points. They should be held near the top. It seems counter-intuitive to many people, but they are much easier to control that way.

 

You will see guides on how to hold chopsticks 'correctly'. Ignore most of them. I've seen Chinese people hold them in many different ways. The trick is to hold to hold one steady and move the other one. If you try to move both, you will go hungry!


 

liuzhou

liuzhou

20 minutes ago, Anna N said:

Can you address the myths, superstitions and etiquette surrounding chopsticks, please. 
 

 

Sure, although I can only think of one myth that may not be a myth at all. I'll deal with that first.

Most etymologies will tell you that the 'chop' in 'chopsticks' means 'quick', as in the expression 'chop-chop' and came into being through a Pidgin English spoken in China in colonial times.

I'm not so sure. (kuài) means quick and 筷子 (kuài zi) means 'chopsticks'. The kuài  pronunciation in both are the same but not the characters. They are homophones, but have different meanings as well as being written differently, a common feature of Chinese. There are thousands of such examples.

Also, I can't find any evidence of any Chinese dialect or other source pronouncing kuài anything like 'chop'. Nor can I think of any reason why the pronunciation woul dhave changed so dramatically

It may be possible that the character used in chopsticks was introduced later, but again I can find no evidence of that in any of my Chinese sources.

I'll leave that one open until I can delve further, but
even my favourite source, the OED, gets in a complete tangle with this.

Note: this meaning of chop is unrelated to that in 'chop-suey'.

As to superstitions and etiquette, I'd say they overlap.

The most serious chopstick faux pas is to plant your chopsticks upright in your rice bowl and leave them there. This is a symbol of death as it resembles incense being burned in honour of the departed.

If you need to put your chopsticks down, use the chopstick rests supplied, if any. If not, lay them flat across the rim of your bowl, but not pointing at anyone (see below).

Dropping a chopstick is also considered unlucky, but happens all the time. Not serious at all.

Stabbing or piercing food to pick it up is a no-no. If it's difficult to catch hold something, use a your chopsticks to slide the food into a spoon, then convey that to your bowl.

Using your chopsticks as drum sticks is very rude, as is pointing at anyone with them. Playing with them is strongly discouraged in children; unthinkable for adults.

Don't dig around in a plate of food to find the choice bits. This is referred to as 'grave digging' and again bad luck (as well as bad manners).

Don't lick your chopsticks.

I'm sure there are more, but those are what come to mind immediately.

Neither taboo or superstition, but the mistake most chopstick neophytes make is to hold the chopsticks too near the points. They should be held near the top. It seems counter-intuitive to many people, but they are much easier to control that way.

You will see guides on how to hold chopsticks 'correctly'. Ignore most of them. I've seen Chinese people hold them in many different ways. The trick is to hold to hold one steady and move the other one. If you try to move both, you will go hungry!

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