Washington State Liquor

[Schielke]

Liquor Control on KUOW last Friday

This was an interesting piece that I was listening to last Friday. It is about the argument over whether the liquor control board has a conflict of interests where they both control the distribution of alcohol and provide customer service for people buying it.

The liquor board representative that appeared seemed to be very skewed in his reasoning. He seemed to think that his job was to reduce the sale of alcohol to the public. I remember him saying that a private alcohol system would lead to more people buying alcohol! (gasp!)

I was happy to hear Washington State Senator Tim Sheldon inform us that he will be proposing a bill that will eliminate the Liquor Control Board here. I am crossing my fingers.

What do you all think of this whole business? I am generally in favor of most things private and not state run, but there are good arguments the other way. The revenue from the system is obviously a benefit. Supposedly we can special order any liquor that is sold in the United States from any Washington State Liquor store so variety of product is kind of taken care of. I just think the government should keep their grubby little fingers out of my scotch.

Ben

[Really Nice!]

I would love to see it privatized.

The state-run stores are very small compared to stores in non-state-owned states. I went back home to Chicago over the holidays and went into a couple of liquor stores the size of a typical grocery store. About 1/3 of the space was dedicated to liquor; the other 2/3 to beer and wine. It take this as meaning a greater selection.

Privatization will promote competition whereby stores will have cheaper prices along with that greater selection. Look for Costco to have good, affordable prices on your scotch!

The revenue from the system is obviously a benefit. Supposedly we can special order any liquor that is sold in the United States from any Washington State Liquor store so variety of product is kind of taken care of.

Not necessarily true (at least with wine). A couple of times I went in to request specific wines not available through the local retailers and they came up empty handed. I was able to obtain the wines from other retailers through Wine-Searcher.

[col klink]

I sincerely hope that they do away with the LCB. Every time I leave the state I'm constantly reminded that it's better elsewhere. Why, I was just in Michigan where they have liquor in the liquor stores, the grocery stores and even the convenience stores!!!

And all for about 25% less than here! But the state taxes on liquor are for a completely different and more irksome thread.

[Jim Dixon]

Washington is the only place with more draconian liquor laws than Oregon. I don't really mind the tax-driven prices so much as the fact that I can't get things like Nonino Amaro or other more obscure spirits. If it was privatized you could at least special order stuff like that.

My original olive oil supplier once told me I should import the limoncello they make (they grow their own organic lemons, a special variety unique to the Sorrento peninsula, and even use organic alcohol). "Jim," Ernesto says,"the limoncello is much more profitable than olive oil."

I tried to explain how liquor was sold in Oregon, but I don't think he really believed that anything so ridiculous could even be possible.

Jim

[Schielke]

The interesting thing I found out in that discussion is that there is no current liquor tax in our state. The LCB just marks it up 45 percent because that is what they can get away with. If it were privatized, we would see taxes on it no doubt. I just hope the taxes would not make competition a moot point as far as price goes.

I am sick of paying these horrible prices for liquor here. Gaahhh!

I am going to California this week though and will pick up something fun for cheap no doubt!

Ben

[Schielke]

You could also get liquor on a (gasp!) Sunday!

A friend of mine was telling me about how they went to get liquor on New Years Eve only to find the store closed in his area. He had to drive across town to the next store. Closed on New Years Eve!!!! WTF????

Arghhh, I surely hope this bill makes it.

Ben

[mamster]

What I object to most is the fact that you can't serve liquor in your concert hall and also admit minors. When Laurie and I first moved to Seattle we were both 20 and didn't particularly drink, and we were shut out of seeing many of our favorite bands. We were married, taxpaying, full-time working people, and it was against the law for us to see the Posies at Moe. (Okay, sometimes we were able to sneak in.)

If there's one thing I believe with all my heart, it's that if you keep kids away from rock n' roll, you are doing the devil's work.

It's not just Washington, of course: the whole country's approach to alcohol is that if you're buying it, you're presumed to be up to no good. That's an idea that increases the harm caused by alcohol and frustrates attempts to innocently enjoy its charms.

Hey, that reminds me that I have some lambic in the fridge.

[col klink]

I was up to no good last night and now I'm paying for it. Man, my head is swimming, but at least I have great memories of the home made creme brulee. But that was before we polished off the SoCo, the Canadian Woods, the Famous Grouse AND the Black Velvet. LOTS of dead soldiers on the field this morning.

I just remembered the other rant about the liquor stores, they can't sell ICE! WTF?!?! What a pain! Why can't I just have ONE place to do all of my pre-drinking tasks? At least in Texas there are drive through margarita joints so you can get started before you get home.

[malarkey]

Washington is the only place with more draconian liquor laws than Oregon.

um, no, that honor would have to go to Kansas, state of my birth. You have to be a "member" of a club to go drink there. once upon a time, you had to buy memberships to all these clubs if you wanted to go out for a drink. Now, they have what they call "reciprocal" memberships, so then you can have one membership card and go to several "clubs" or bars/restaurants that serve liquor. And the liquor stores are a joke. You think ours are bad. lordy.

although I've heard that Utah has some rather odd liquor laws...

[MsRamsey]

I just remembered the other rant about the liquor stores, they can't sell ICE! WTF?!?! What a pain!

Or soda, or tonic, or juice, etc.

[nightscotsman]

Or even grenadine for chrissakes, but they do sell bitters and icky non-alcoholic mixers. How is that rule written again?

As bad as the Washington liquor stores are (and they are), the ones I saw in Portland when I stopped in after Christmas were actually scary. I don't know if I just happened to pick a couple of bad examples, but they were dirty, dingy places with all the booze behind the counters - you had to ask for what you wanted, with the workers staring at you like you were some kind of deviant. I felt like I was patronizing a porn shop.

[MsRamsey]

Liquor and porn, all in one place! That's what's available in a state with sane laws!

I'm always amused by the fancy schmancy liquor store in downtown Seattle. It has MOOD LIGHTING, fer chrissakes.

[col klink]

Utah has some pretty messed up laws. In the bar, you can't have more than one drink in front of you and you can't order another one until you've finished the current one. Remember what I said about the one drink? It also means you can't order a double. When my old roomate flew threw Salt Lake City, he actually *sobered* up drinking at the bar.

[trillium]

Or even grenadine for chrissakes, but they do sell bitters and icky non-alcoholic mixers. How is that rule written again?

As bad as the Washington liquor stores are (and they are), the ones I saw in Portland when I stopped in after Christmas were actually scary. I don't know if I just happened to pick a couple of bad examples, but they were dirty, dingy places with all the booze behind the counters - you had to ask for what you wanted, with the workers staring at you like you were some kind of deviant. I felt like I was patronizing a porn shop.

Uh, nope. That sounds like a description of all the ones I've been to. Which are only 3, mind you, but still. Except the bottles aren't always behind the counter. Our neighborhood one has shelves, but they really stare at you while you stare at the shelves in disbelief that there are so many off brands (ok, really, how many different brands of vodka cheaper than Smirnoff do we need, people???) and so few bottles of what you're looking for. I've been in naughty shops that were much less sleazy then a Portland liquor store. And you always get carded. Always. I like that part because I enjoy being mistaken for a 18 year old trying to buy a bottle of Barbencourt 15 year...ha ha. When my partner shows his green card (we're talking really really high tech here...microwriting, fingerprints, holograms up the wazoo) for an ID, he was told it had to be a US issued ID to be accepted. I swear I started laughing hysterically and couldn't stop. Q was much better mannered and suggested the guy look up the green card in the book of IDs he was sure they had behind the counter.

But honestly, I've had bad experiences everywhere in the US buying booze except CA and IL and it's always when I'm with some one who isn't from the US who gets a big laugh about it. But Utah really does have the worst laws and their beer is weaker by law.

In Michigan, or wait was it Wisconsin? Anyway, we were at an Italian deli buying stuff for lunch and we bought a liter of beer and some mineral water (there were 4 of us). Because we had out of state IDs we had to have our photographs taken with our IDs and sign a piece of paper stating that the ID wasn't fake. The Czech in the crowd went off on a rant about how Americans think they're so free and they can't buy a liter of beer for lunch...we hustled him right out of there. Another time when I was out with my former boss, they told him they couldn't accept his UK passport as ID because it had expired. Think about the logic for that one. Sigh. Puritans.

regards,

trillium

[col klink]

I am also of the opinion that if we privatized alcohol sales, we'd get cheaper prices and better service.

WHAT DO WE WANT!

Privatized alchol sales!

WHEN DO WE WANT IT?

NOW!

[MsRamsey]

I've got to mention this funny tidbit about Seattle Liquor Control. There is a Liquor Control dude here who goes into bars, gets completely shitfaced, and then cites the bar who served him. And I actually met this guy. My husband used to put in a lot of volunteer time on restoration of the Kalakala*, and we were there for a 4th of July bash. There were kegs of beer, and this guy boarded the boat, flashed his badge, and threatened the party-throwers with legal action. He was completely soused himself!

I've mentioned this to people who have lived here for a long time, and some knew all about him.

*Historic art deco ferry

Edited January 9, 2003 by MsRamsey (log)

[col klink]

That doesn't surprise me in the least. Of course you could say that particular liquor control guy worked for any state and I'd believe that kind of action. Did he need a payoff?

[SeAAttle]

Off topic, but MsRamsey, I hear the Kalakala may be sold very soon and moved to California. If true, that is very sad.

OK, back to food (and liquor).

[MsRamsey]

Off topic, but MsRamsey, I hear the Kalakala may be sold very soon and moved to California.  If true, that is very sad.

OK, back to food (and liquor).

It isn't that I am not grateful for the information, but that's about the 500th rumor I've heard about the fate of the Kalakala. The whole restoration project has been horribly mismanaged since Peter Bevis brought the boat back from Alaska. If it ends up in California, restored and loved, great. It's become clear that it just ain't gonna happen here.

But really, don't believe anything you hear about it being sold to California, to South America, to Portugal, etc., etc.

Um, food related . . . I had some tasty hot dogs aboard the Kalakala! And beer!

[trillium]

I am also of the opinion that if we privatized alcohol sales, we'd get cheaper prices and better service.

You'd get better service, sure. But the prices in Chicago and Seattle are within a few dollars of each other.

regards,

trillium

[MsRamsey]

I am also of the opinion that if we privatized alcohol sales, we'd get cheaper prices and better service.

You'd get better service, sure. But the prices in Chicago and Seattle are within a few dollars of each other.

As opposed to . . . ? Are you thinking exclusively of wine?

[trillium]

I am also of the opinion that if we privatized alcohol sales, we'd get cheaper prices and better service.

You'd get better service, sure. But the prices in Chicago and Seattle are within a few dollars of each other.

As opposed to . . . ? Are you thinking exclusively of wine?

No, I wasn't thinking of wine. I was just saying that I didn't notice much of a price difference between the price of booze in Seattle (government run) and Chicago (private). I think my mum and I compared prices on some single malts, single barrel bourbons and rum. The only time there was a difference was when one of the big liquor warehouses in Chicago had a sale. Just to confuse things further, the prices in Oregon are more expensive. We chalked it up to the fact the state has no sales tax and needs to generate more revenue from alcohol sales then Washington does.

regards,

trillium

[maggiethecat]

As I've mentioned, we drove from Chicago to Ottawa to see my parents for Christmas. We pulled into a Speedway or Shell in Michigan for gas and a pee!

Holio smolio. It was a regular sized service staion (not a truck stop) and it had everything. A hot line of "Italian" food. Beer and wine in the fridge. A cigar vendor was refilling the display.

Behind the counter, an extensive supply of every well-known brand of hard liquor. It was some happenin' gas station.

Canada has government liquor stores too. In Ontario, they are called the Liquor Control Board of Ontario, or LCBO. Although the folks are nice, it is rather like shopping in a post office.

On Boxing Day, my father thought that we were running Dangerously Low. (Why, I wonder?) So we headed across the river to Hull, Quebec, the LCBO being closed. There, goverment run also. it is called La Societe des Alcools (or, in our house, the Alcohol Society .) They, the government-run store, were actually having a sale! Buy three, get one free. The parking lot was packed.

Rule of thumb: Hang with the French people!

But I feel for you guys. The first time my parents visited me in Chicago they were absolutrly dazzled by the free enterprise liqour stores. They had never heard or thought of such a concept!

[maggiethecat]

As I've mentioned, we drove from Chicago to Ottawa to see my parents for Christmas. We pulled into a Speedway or Shell in Michigan for gas and a pee!

Holio smolio. It was a regular sized service staion (not a truck stop) and it had everything. A hot line of "Italian" food. Beer and wine in the fridge. A cigar vendor was refilling the display.

Behind the counter, an extensive supply of every well-known brand of hard liquor. It was some happenin' gas station.

Canada has government liquor stores too. In Ontario, they are called the Liquor Control Board of Ontario, or LCBO. Although the folks are nice, it is rather like shopping in a post office.

On Boxing Day, my father thought that we were running Dangerously Low. (Why, I wonder?) So we headed across the river to Hull, Quebec, the LCBO being closed. There, goverment run also. it is called La Societe des Alcools (or, in our house, the Alcohol Society .) They, the government-run store, were actually having a sale! Buy three, get one free. The parking lot was packed.

Rule of thumb: Hang with the French people!

But I feel for you guys. The first time my parents visited me in Chicago they were absolutely dazzled by the free enterprise liqour stores. They had never heard or thought of such a concept!

[Schielke]

I just got back from California yesterday where I bought a bottle of Tanquery 10 in a Grocery Store for 18 bucks. Damn.

I think I will do all of my liquor shopping in California. I'll be going back down in a week or so. I will have to make myself a shopping list.

Ben