[CHI] Alinea – Grant Achatz – Reviews & Discussion (Part 2)

[ulterior epicure]

Out of curiousity, has the thought ever been floated of offering two different menus with different items?

Yes, I've been wondering this too - but given Nick's explanations of the way the Tour works and that it is impossible for them to service the entire restaurant at once at that level, I gather it would be difficult to offer 2 different tours, ot maybe even to sub-out a few different courses on the smaller menu.

If I'm not mistaken, Moto, when I was there about a year ago, had some different items on all three of their menus. Some overlapped, but a few were just at tad different.

u.e.

[nick.kokonas]

There is indeed a variance in dishes between the 12 course and the tour... to a greater or lesser extent depending on seasonality and changes in the menus. Since the menu at Alinea changes completely 4 - 5 times per year, offering 2 completely distinct menus that do not draw on past dishes would be quite difficult to say the least. The current set-up allows for timely innovation of dishes while insuring the highest quality of preparation.

Moving to one menu is an ideal for many reasons. However, we feel that at present, most of our diners enjoy having a choice between the 12-course tasting and the Tour. Part of that choice involves the amount of time dinner takes -- not everyone is willing to spend 3+ hours at the restaurant -- and the other part is financial... a $50 difference between menus.

It is possible that at some point in the future we would be in a position to offer one menu of an intermediate length at a price point between the two current menus. But I believe that that is still some time away.

We are planning several special events during the next year that will offer that type of format for a few nights, however.

[Bond Girl]

Moving to one menu is an ideal for many reasons.  However, we feel that at present, most of our diners enjoy having a choice between the 12-course tasting and the Tour.  Part of that choice involves the amount of time dinner takes -- not everyone is willing to spend 3+ hours at the restaurant -- and the other part is financial... a $50 difference between menus. 

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For someone who did not have that choice of two menus, I second the idea for a one menu system. I think for anyone who made the reservation to go to Alinea, $50 is a minor differential issue.

[Elrushbo]

There is indeed a variance in dishes between the 12 course and the tour... to a greater or lesser extent depending on seasonality and changes in the menus.  Since the menu at Alinea changes completely 4 - 5 times per year, offering 2 completely distinct menus that do not draw on past dishes would be quite difficult to say the least.  The current set-up allows for timely innovation of dishes while insuring the highest quality of preparation.

Moving to one menu is an ideal for many reasons.  However, we feel that at present, most of our diners enjoy having a choice between the 12-course tasting and the Tour.  Part of that choice involves the amount of time dinner takes -- not everyone is willing to spend 3+ hours at the restaurant -- and the other part is financial... a $50 difference between menus. 

It is possible that at some point in the future we would be in a position to offer one menu of an intermediate length at a price point between the two current menus.  But I believe that that is still some time away.

We are planning several special events during the next year that will offer that type of format for a few nights, however.

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Even though I haven't tried it yet, I imagine Alinea draws the type of people who are game for anything and know what they're getting into beforehand.

Can you give us a hint as to what these events entail? If you can't do that now, please let us know when you can, I'm sure many here would book a res accordingly.

[nick.kokonas]

On any given night, fully 1/4 of the restaurant is filled with patrons to whom $50 represents a significant difference. For many customers, it is their very first experience with a tasting menu. Making such a change would be more impactful than you might imagine. While we get a great number of "foodies" who have travelled in for the occasion, we also get a great number for whom Alinea is a completely new and different experience.

[prasantrin]

On any given night, fully 1/4 of the restaurant is filled with patrons to whom $50 represents a significant difference.  For many customers, it is their very first experience with a tasting menu.  Making such a change would be more impactful than you might imagine.  While we get a great number of "foodies" who have travelled in for the occasion, we also get a great number for whom Alinea is a completely new and different experience.

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I would be one of those for whom $50 is significant, although I would be willing to sacrifice just for the experience. But a more significant detail, for me, would be the number of courses. As someone with IBS, I would never be able to finish a Tour without suffering great discomfort and pain. A 12-course option, however, might be do-able with just minor discomfort. To eliminate the 12-course might prevent me from ever having an Alinea experience, more so than the additional $50 would.

I'm sure some of those who chose the Tasting menu might have done so for similar reasons--not everyone's stomach's can accommodate the Tour.

[Elrushbo]

On any given night, fully 1/4 of the restaurant is filled with patrons to whom $50 represents a significant difference.  For many customers, it is their very first experience with a tasting menu.  Making such a change would be more impactful than you might imagine.  While we get a great number of "foodies" who have travelled in for the occasion, we also get a great number for whom Alinea is a completely new and different experience.

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I would be one of those for whom $50 is significant, although I would be willing to sacrifice just for the experience. But a more significant detail, for me, would be the number of courses. As someone with IBS, I would never be able to finish a Tour without suffering great discomfort and pain. A 12-course option, however, might be do-able with just minor discomfort. To eliminate the 12-course might prevent me from ever having an Alinea experience, more so than the additional $50 would.

I'm sure some of those who chose the Tasting menu might have done so for similar reasons--not everyone's stomach's can accommodate the Tour.

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I have heard that Alinea's staff is very aware and times things accordingly, if you had to go to the bathroom, they slow up the next course.

[ronnie_suburban]

I have heard that Alinea's staff is very aware and times things accordingly, if you had to go to the bathroom, they slow up the next course.

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I've actually had the staff serve me a few courses in the bathroom.

=R=

just kidding

[ulterior epicure]

I have heard that Alinea's staff is very aware and times things accordingly, if you had to go to the bathroom, they slow up the next course.

Certainly, as they should. During multi-coursed meals, I always give my server(s) at least a one-course heads-up that I'll be heading to the little boys room out of courtesy... perhaps the only time I made it a habit of announcing my personal "nature calls."

... although ronnie's way will move the meal along faster...

u.e.

Edited June 3, 2006 by ulterior epicure (log)

[BryanZ]

Does Alinea have a mailing list, either snail or electronic?

[Shalmanese]

A clarification: Does the 12 course menu actually contain less food than the tour?

[nick.kokonas]

We do have an email list, though it has been used very infrequently thus far. Feel free to submit your interest to: info@alinearestaurant.com note: add my name to the email list.

The 12 course menu does contain "less food" from a pure weight standpoint, but not by much.

[Elrushbo]

A clarification: Does the 12 course menu actually contain less food than the tour?

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I would hope so, otherwise who would do the tour?

[Elrushbo]

I have heard that Alinea's staff is very aware and times things accordingly, if you had to go to the bathroom, they slow up the next course.

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I've actually had the staff serve me a few courses in the bathroom.

=R=

just kidding

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Pepto sorbet?

[Shalmanese]

A clarification: Does the 12 course menu actually contain less food than the tour?

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I would hope so, otherwise who would do the tour?

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Well, the 12 course would have more food per plate but less plates, the tour would have more plates with less on them. So if you wanted to taste a greater range of the chefs ability, you would do the tour.

[ulterior epicure]

A clarification: Does the 12 course menu actually contain less food than the tour?

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I would hope so, otherwise who would do the tour?

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... sometimes (in fact, often), it's not about the quantity...

u.e.

[smorris291]

Even though I haven't tried it yet, I imagine Alinea draws the type of people who are game for anything and know what they're getting into beforehand.

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Elrushbo, that's what I thought, too, but from my trip to Alinea on 5/27, I was caught off guard...my wife and I had a 4 top seated next to us (two couples in their 30s) who clearly had NO idea whatsoever what Alinea was about.

They initially peppered the server with questions about the 12 course tasting and seemed very confused by the whole concept. Later, while we were about 2/3 of the way done through our meal and they were just a couple of courses in, one of the guys at the table turned to me and asked if I was getting full...which he followed up by asking me "are one of the courses a big steak or something?". He was only half joking. It seemed to me that one of the people at the table had heard Alinea was this great new restaurant, trendy and expensive, and just had to try it. It was clear that they would've been happier at Gibson's (a steak place, for those of you non-Chicagoans).

Despite the fish-out-of-water experience they were having, I believe that they did end up having a good time, due to the excellent staff and the amazing flavors of the food. I overheard a couple of them initially stating that what was placed in front of them looked strange, but that they loved the taste. So, hats off to Alinea for turning what could've been a disaster into an enjoyable evening for them.

[Simon_S]

I overheard a couple of them initially stating that what was placed in front of them looked strange, but that they loved the taste.  So, hats off to Alinea for turning what could've been a disaster into an enjoyable evening for them.

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And this, for me, is the most amazing thing about Alinea, and a point that I think should be shouted from the rooftops: You don't have to be a "foodie" to enjoy a meal at this restaurant, it doesn't require specialist knowledge, it doesn't require an "educated palate". All of these things may improve the experience of course, but ultimately an open mind is all that's needed. As I believe I said upthread, at the end of the day this is damn good eatin'! The ultra-modern plating, the headline-grabbing concepts, the sheer cool of it all -- they're just the cherry on top. If the food wasn't enjoyable when you put it in your mouth, everything else would be pointless.

Si

[KendallCollege]

Chef Alex Stupak is Leaving Alinea?

ChefG:

"It is true. Alex will leave Alinea at the end of July. I think it is important to note that I gave Alex full creative freedom at Alinea. His desserts are a direct expression of his vision. I think the notion that his desserts will revert back to being more soulful or approachable when he arrives at WD-50 will only be the case if he or Wylie intentionally decide that is the direction they think is best."

[ronnie_suburban]

Chef Alex Stupak is Leaving Alinea? 

ChefG:

"It is true. Alex will leave Alinea at the end of July. I think it is important to note that I gave Alex full creative freedom at Alinea. His desserts are a direct expression of his vision. I think the notion that his desserts will revert back to being more soulful or approachable when he arrives at WD-50 will only be the case if he or Wylie intentionally decide that is the direction they think is best."

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For more on this mini bombshell, check this thread.

=R=

[Elrushbo]

Maybe this is the direction Alinea wants to go? Seems to me, from observation, that Alinea's desserts haven't gotten the same attention as the rest of the menu.

[docsconz]

Maybe this is the direction Alinea wants to go? Seems to me, from observation, that Alinea's desserts haven't gotten the same attention as the rest of the menu.

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In my exprience at Alinea I always thought it was a seemless transition to dessert. It will be interesting to see how Chef Stupack integrates with Chef Dufresne and how a new pastry chef will integrate into Alinea. Somehow given the talent and creativity of all involved I think it will end up just fine.

[ronnie_suburban]

Maybe this is the direction Alinea wants to go? Seems to me, from observation, that Alinea's desserts haven't gotten the same attention as the rest of the menu.

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In my exprience at Alinea I always thought it was a seemless transition to dessert. It will be interesting to see how Chef Stupack integrates with Chef Dufresne and how a new pastry chef will integrate into Alinea. Somehow given the talent and creativity of all involved I think it will end up just fine.

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I agree, Doc. Dessert at Alinea has always felt like a very natural part of the progression.

I imagine they're lining up for a chance to work with chefg and become part of the Alinea team. I'm sure they wind up with a totally top-flight candidate and I can't wait to find out who it is.

[Elrushbo]

Maybe this is the direction Alinea wants to go? Seems to me, from observation, that Alinea's desserts haven't gotten the same attention as the rest of the menu.

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In my exprience at Alinea I always thought it was a seemless transition to dessert. It will be interesting to see how Chef Stupack integrates with Chef Dufresne and how a new pastry chef will integrate into Alinea. Somehow given the talent and creativity of all involved I think it will end up just fine.

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I agree, Doc. Dessert at Alinea has always felt like a very natural part of the progression.

I imagine they're lining up for a chance to work with chefg and become part of the Alinea team. I'm sure they wind up with a totally top-flight candidate and I can't wait to find out who it is.

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I will be interested in hearing, once the new person is in place, how they differ from the predecesor. I'm planning on trying Alinea in Sept as I will be driving that way alone.

Does anyone know why Alex Stupak is leaving?

[alex stupak]

the reasons im leaving have to do with my personal life and nothing else.....alinea is the most unique and dynamic restaurant i have seen in this country(and most others for that matter)I regret that my tenure here is so short....im sure in the years to come i will continue to look on and see alinea consistently reach new heights.....grant achatz is THE HARDEST WORKING CHEF I HAVE EVER SEEN!!! I would wish him luck when i leave but he doesnt need it.....i would also like to note that the entire time ive been here he put all his trust in me and gave me free range to create.....that actually quite rare as you know if youve ever worked in a restaurant and werent the chef....