Stomping Through the "Savoy" (2007–2008)

[thirtyoneknots]

True it might not taste as good, but I think by now we've got enough evidence that the fact that an ingredient will create an unbalanced drink doesn't mean that that's not what Craddock (or his sources) intended. Not sure if the stuff existed commercially at the time, but a dash of Pimento Dram could sub for the spices, and add the tiny bit of sweetness.

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I've no inisght on the source of this recipe. About all I can tell you is Grace's Delight is verbatim in the Savoy Cocktail Book and Patrick Duffy's "Official Mixer's Manual".

To me, flavor aside, raspberry liqueur seems more likely than raspberry eau-de-vie, just because the eau-de-vie doesn't seem like it would be a common bar ingredient. No facts to back that up, though.

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Excellent point, it had actually occurred to me, but you know, I always have to be the iconoclast.

Or whatever it is I'm being.

[eje]

There's an article in today's Wall Street Journal, by Eric Felten, about Erik and the "Stomping" topic:

"Stomping Through the Savoy," from today's Wall Street Journal

[...]

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Thanks everyone, not just for the kind words, but also for participating in the Savoy topic for these past two years.

I first talked to Mr. Felten when he was researching and writing about the Leap Year Cocktail. He sent me a bunch of questions, and I sent him back carefully worded answers.

After getting my answers, and taking a more careful look at the topic, he told me the Savoy topic deserved an article all of its own. After a month or two of silence, I figured, oh well, it's not going to happen.

Looking at the article, I am really pleased that he chose to focus on the Savoy topic as an ongoing collaboration instead of just my particularly obsessive brand of dipsophilia.

For me, it is the ongoing collaboration and discussion here in the Spirits and Cocktails forum that makes writing the posts for the Savoy Topic worthwhile. Without all of your support and encouragement, I wouldn't probably have made it past "A".

May the road rise to meet you,

May the wind be always at your back.

May the sun shine warm upon your face,

The rains fall soft upon your fields.

May you be in heaven,

Half an hour before the Devil knows your dead.

Here's to another two years of good drinking!

[eje]

Gradeal (Special) Cocktail

1/4 Dry Gin. (1/2 oz Northshore Gin #6)

1/4 Apricot Brandy. (1/2 oz Rothman & Winter Orchard Apricot)

1/2 Bacardi Rum. (1 oz Havana Club Anejo Blanco)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

Tasty and sophisticated? Another drink that goes against the usual stereotypes of rum drinks.

Most of the google references I find to "Gradeal" are to this drink. Interestingly, though, according to this article from an Australian paper, Rising to the Occasion, "Gradeal" was the name given to the stones Scots cooked their oatcakes on.

In Roman times in the north of Scotland, she says, the native Gaels baked cakes of oats on stones set round the open fire. These stones were called gradeal and from this was derived the Scottish word girdle. The more modern girdle was a thin round plate of cast iron with a semicircular handle, and was first invented and manufactured in Culross in Fife, Scotland.

Especially interesting, in that the Gradeal Cocktail is pretty similar to the "Culross Cocktail".

[thirtyoneknots]

Most of the google references I find to "Gradeal" are to this drink.  Interestingly, though, according to this article from an Australian paper, Rising to the Occasion, "Gradeal" was the name given to the stones Scots cooked their oatcakes on.

In Roman times in the north of Scotland, she says, the native Gaels baked cakes of oats on stones set round the open fire. These stones were called gradeal and from this was derived the Scottish word girdle. The more modern girdle was a thin round plate of cast iron with a semicircular handle, and was first invented and manufactured in Culross in Fife, Scotland.

Especially interesting, in that the Gradeal Cocktail is pretty similar to the "Culross Cocktail".

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Presumably also a cognate of 'griddle'?

Pretty interesting, but the real mystery is how is it connected to apricots?

[bostonapothecary]

is there really enough flavor contrast to the fruit in the drink to make it interesting?

i make one similar style of drink with one low sugar fruit liqueur contrasted with st. james rum... should end up with the sugar content and strenghth of a manhattan... works well and doesn't get boring... i could see it working well with an immensely flavored white rum and a botanically loaded gin...

so what is the fullest flavored white rum?

[Chris Amirault]

That thing screams out for bitters, don't it?

[mkayahara]

so what is the fullest flavored white rum?

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Wray & Nephew White Overproof?

[eje]

is there really enough flavor contrast to the fruit in the drink to make it interesting?

i make one similar style of drink with one low sugar fruit liqueur contrasted with st. james rum... should end up with the sugar content and strenghth of a manhattan... works well and doesn't get boring... i could see it working well with an immensely flavored white rum and a botanically loaded gin...

so what is the fullest flavored white rum?

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I wouldn't say it's a great drink. Interesting enough, in a sort of academic way to me, between the flavor of the HC Anejo Blanco and Northshore, that I wasn't tempted to pour it down the sink.

The Northshore #6, unfortunately not very widely distributed, does do some interesting things with apricot, that make this a bit more interesting than it would be with a more traditional gin.

A more full flavored rum would probably lose the subtlety of the apricot. Though, something like the Park Slope, with an aged rum, apricot, and sweet vermouth, would probably be interesting.

[JerseyRED]

Erik,

Kudos to you and your excellent constitution! You’ve made and consumed drinks I couldn’t even bear to smell let alone taste (I still shudder when I think about the Glad Eye Cocktail).

It’s created some very interesting topics!

Rich

[bostonapothecary]

is there really enough flavor contrast to the fruit in the drink to make it interesting?

i make one similar style of drink with one low sugar fruit liqueur contrasted with st. james rum... should end up with the sugar content and strenghth of a manhattan... works well and doesn't get boring... i could see it working well with an immensely flavored white rum and a botanically loaded gin...

so what is the fullest flavored white rum?

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I wouldn't say it's a great drink. Interesting enough, in a sort of academic way to me, between the flavor of the HC Anejo Blanco and Northshore, that I wasn't tempted to pour it down the sink.

The Northshore #6, unfortunately not very widely distributed, does do some interesting things with apricot, that make this a bit more interesting than it would be with a more traditional gin.

A more full flavored rum would probably lose the subtlety of the apricot. Though, something like the Park Slope, with an aged rum, apricot, and sweet vermouth, would probably be interesting.

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i like apricot drinks but they are dangerous in mixology... if they don't have rugged flavor contrasts or boundary pushing doses of acidity everything becomes merely apple juice... so many wines run into the same problem...

[eje]

New toy:

I was reading somewhere that athletes and folks who drink vitamin supplements have something they call "blender balls" they put in their drinks so they can keep the particles in suspension as they are exercising. Someone mentioned using them in a cocktail shaker. A visit to a local vitamin and supplement emporium yielded results.

Grand Royal Clover Club Cocktail

The Juice of 1/2 Lemon. (about 3/4 ounce fresh lemon juice)

1 Tablespoonful Grenadine. (1 Tablespoon homemade Grenadine)

1 Egg. (1 egg white)

1 glass Dry Gin. (2 oz Tanqueray)

(Dry shake drink ingredients with blender ball or spring for 10 seconds or so. Remove your implement of choice. Add big ice and...) Shake well and strain into medium size glass.

Hard to say if this if the blender ball results in an improvement. Good texture and pretty decent head, for a home bartender.

But, damn it, as I was writing this up, I noticed this recipe calls for a whole egg, not an egg white! It's just so weird, as I have looked at this recipe for over a week, thinking it was odd that it was no different from the other Clover Club recipes in the book. I thought there should be something different about it, being "Grand Royal" and all.

Fortunately, I was meeting a friend at Alembic for drinks. The always wonderful Alembic bartenders were willing to make a random Savoy recipe on a non-Savoy night. Actually, they seemed a bit excited to get to make a whole egg cocktail.

Anyway, yep, that's tasty. The yolk gives it a delicious extra richness and texture.

[thirtyoneknots]

I was reading somewhere that athletes and folks who drink vitamin supplements have something they call "blender balls" they put in their drinks so they can keep the particles in suspension as they are exercising.  Someone mentioned using them in a cocktail shaker.  A visit to a local vitamin and supplement emporium yielded results.

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I don't make many egg white drinks at home and even fewer at work, but I do more often use the spring off the hawthorne strainer to whip heavy cream for coffee drinks, I'm sure it would work for this as well.

[eje]

I don't make many egg white drinks at home and even fewer at work, but I do more often use the spring off the hawthorne strainer to whip heavy cream for coffee drinks, I'm sure it would work for this as well.

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That's what many bars use here in San Francisco for cream or egg white drinks. I've even heard someone uses a copper spring for extra egg white juju.

Unfortunately, I gave my spare hawthorne strainer to a friend, so I had a choice of buying another hawthorne strainer or a blender ball.

Figured what the heck, try the blender ball.

[slkinsey]

Did you use the blender ball for the pre-shake, or together with the ice? I have a hard time understanding how it would work with the ice.

[eje]

Did you use the blender ball for the pre-shake, or together with the ice?  I have a hard time understanding how it would work with the ice.

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Oh, you're right, I forgot to note that in the recipe. I've fixed it.

[eje]

Grand Slam Cocktail

1/4 French Vermouth. (1/2 oz Dolin Dry Vermouth)

1/4 Italian Vermouth. (1/2 oz Vya Sweet Vermouth)

1/2 Swedish Punch. (1 oz Swedish Punch, eas recipe)

Shake (stir, please) well and strain into cocktail glass.

Unless you enjoy drinking lollipops, this is not for you...

The flavor is certainly interesting enough, but it is just too sweet.

Some bitters perhaps? Or maybe use Punt e Mes instead of regular sweet vermouth?

[bostonapothecary]

Grand Slam Cocktail

1/4 French Vermouth. (1/2 oz Dolin Dry Vermouth)

1/4 Italian Vermouth. (1/2 oz Vya Sweet Vermouth)

1/2 Swedish Punch. (1 oz Swedish Punch, eas recipe)

Shake (stir, please) well and strain into cocktail glass.

Unless you enjoy drinking lollipops, this is not for you...

The flavor is certainly interesting enough, but it is just too sweet.

Some bitters perhaps?  Or maybe use Punt e Mes instead of regular sweet vermouth?

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i would drink that in inverse proportions... 1 oz. of each vermouth and 1/2 of the swedish punch... if you predict your drink might be too sweet so far in my commerical vermouth journey's i've found cinzano to be the least sweet...

[eje]

i would drink that in inverse proportions... 1 oz. of each vermouth and 1/2 of the swedish punch... if you predict your drink might be too sweet so far in my commerical vermouth journey's i've found cinzano to be the least sweet...

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I'm inclined to agree that reverse proportions would make this drink more suitable to my current taste.

Maybe 3/4 oz of each vermouth, a half an ounce of swedish punch, and a dash of bitters for good measure.

[eje]

i would drink that in inverse proportions... 1 oz. of each vermouth and 1/2 of the swedish punch... if you predict your drink might be too sweet so far in my commerical vermouth journey's i've found cinzano to be the least sweet...

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I'm inclined to agree that reverse proportions would make this drink more suitable to my current taste.

Maybe 3/4 oz of each vermouth, a half an ounce of swedish punch, and a dash of bitters for good measure.

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Forgot a note and a question...

When a friend of mine traveled to Sweden, I asked him to bring back some Swedish Punsch. He had no problem finding it, as the people he was staying with routinely drank it straight as a digestiv. So even this cocktail is an improvement over that custom.

Also, bostonapothecary, have you actually measured the brix of the various commercial Sweet Vermouths? If so, you should share that with us. I'd love to see the actual data. Cinzano seemed slightly sweeter to me than M&R, but I don't know if it is just because of the balance of bitter and sweet flavors.

[thirtyoneknots]

When a friend of mine traveled to Sweden, I asked him to bring back some Swedish Punsch.  He had no problem finding it, as the people he was staying with routinely drank it straight as a digestiv.  So even this cocktail is an improvement over that custom.

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It doesn't seem any worse than Benedictine, Drambuie, or whatever, espcially if chilled. I could see 2 parts Martinique rhum and 1 part Punsch as sort of a weird Rusty Nail translation that would work after dinner.

[bostonapothecary]

When a friend of mine traveled to Sweden, I asked him to bring back some Swedish Punsch.  He had no problem finding it, as the people he was staying with routinely drank it straight as a digestiv.  So even this cocktail is an improvement over that custom.

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It doesn't seem any worse than Benedictine, Drambuie, or whatever, espcially if chilled. I could see 2 parts Martinique rhum and 1 part Punsch as sort of a weird Rusty Nail translation that would work after dinner.

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martinique rhum and punsch sounds pretty good...

measuring sugar contents has become a problem... but there is a solution! but i don't have time... right now any how...

as i read much more about refractometers i found they are very sensitive to temperature... but you can buy models that correct for it... but they cost $300... and the technology is highly if not debilitatingly sensitive to non water solutions... all of the scales that refractometers use are calibrated for water solutions... analyzing liqueurs is supposedly a very tricky and expensive business.... how do you take an unknown substance and determine its alcohol, sugar, and total dissolved solids?? well for us alcohol is given and we can create tables to measure sugar in mixed alcohol water solutions by comparing water solutions to alcohol solutions that we create by weighing the sugar and observing the volumes to find the new alcohol content... a magnetic stirrer and a big spread sheet and some extrapolation and its a non issue... but it takes some time a couple hundred dollars... i'll get to it eventually...

so i don't know what to tell you... about M&R versus Cinzano on the sugar matter... but i do have studies from the 50's on vermouth that decsribe the variances in sugar, alcohol, and acidity, extract, and tannins among countries... they don't really name, names with brands... i think bitterness is the most important determinite of perceived sweetness across the major brands... acidities are pretty similar but extract levels and botanical choices are pretty distinct...

and i do have 30+ classic recipes for sweet and dry vermouths... (its crazy how much orange peel goes into every dry vermouth formula... its very muted without sugar... they all use lots of wormwood too but i think they remove the thujone from their extracts...) the recipes are sprawling and expensive to reproduce... and so many use banned substances that are very important to the sucess of the formula... but from developing profiles of every common herb and using other people's helpful profiles i've developed an analytical guide to describing a formula without producing it and predicting substitutions where necessary...

the botanical formulas are really the key to stepping into the 21rst century... when you create a stunning botanical blend with a certain robustness it becomes the forground which you can contrast with different backgrounds... you can fortify your wines with eau de vie's or work with fruit wines... (mango vermouth is all the rage half way across the world...) a new style of chamberyzette anyone?

vermouth is pretty wild stuff... there is more to the differences between M&R, cinzano, stock, Noilly, and Dolin than most people think... Carpano has been desribed as being in a class of its own by so many sources...

[bostonapothecary]

so apparently there was a drinkboy discussion on the vermouth matter...

MSN Drinkboy discussion

well i have found those ollivero recipes but they really aren't complete... the recipe without the calamus and without the gentian also had arbitrary amounts of vanilla extract and pomegranite extract...

the two recipes probably from the same developer have a certain style... he uses massive amounts of orris root relative to any of my other scattered recipes... today anyhow, orris root is more or less banned because it is allergenic... i bet by looking at the recipe it would be very expressive and flowery rather than integrated... very different than any of the other big names and probably worth putting together... i was using lots of orris in my botanical formula... it is nothing but violety goodness...

besides the orris and wormwood its probably the safest recipe i've seen... i'd drink it. i wouldn't stress the white wine type too much. these recipes don't scale down too well. whipping up a fractional batch would probably cost a couple hundred dollars... its kind of hard to analyze a formula without completely producing it.

[eje]

The Grape Vine Cocktail

1/4 Grape Juice. (1/2 oz Twin Hill Ranch Grape Juice)

1/4 Lemon Juice. (1/2 oz Fresh Lemon Juice)

1/2 Gin. (1 oz Tanqueray Gin)

1 Dash Grenadine. (1/3 tsp. Fee's American Beauty Grenadine)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

Wow, what a shock going from the Grand Slam to the Grape Vine! This is quite a tart cocktail! I found the Grape Vine pretty enjoyable, to be honest, with a lovely color.

[brinza]

It doesn't seem any worse than Benedictine, Drambuie, or whatever, espcially if chilled. I could see 2 parts Martinique rhum and 1 part Punsch as sort of a weird Rusty Nail translation that would work after dinner.

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Interesting observation. Dr. Cocktail in his Vintage Spirits & Forgotten Cocktails remarked that Swedish Punsch is to rum what Drambuie is to Scotch.

I wonder if there is a name for the specific classification of drinks (I don't think this is one of Gary Regan's drink families, unless it's covered in Duos), wherein a liqueur is mixed with the same spirit that is used as the base of the liqueur, e.g. Rusty Nail, B & B, French Connection #2 (Grand Marnier and cognac), and even rum and Punsch would be included. Are there others that follow this formula?

[thirtyoneknots]

It doesn't seem any worse than Benedictine, Drambuie, or whatever, espcially if chilled. I could see 2 parts Martinique rhum and 1 part Punsch as sort of a weird Rusty Nail translation that would work after dinner.

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Interesting observation. Dr. Cocktail in his Vintage Spirits & Forgotten Cocktails remarked that Swedish Punsch is to rum what Drambuie is to Scotch.

I wonder if there is a name for the specific classification of drinks (I don't think this is one of Gary Regan's drink families, unless it's covered in Duos), wherein a liqueur is mixed with the same spirit that is used as the base of the liqueur, e.g. Rusty Nail, B & B, French Connection #2 (Grand Marnier and cognac), and even rum and Punsch would be included. Are there others that follow this formula?

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I believe he lists them as "Duos and Trios"