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paulraphael

paulraphael

43 minutes ago, Shelby said:

 

That's not as bad as some of KA's suggestions. It's about 1300 grams, 57% hydration (taking into account the malt powder).  A lot of bagel dough is 50% hydration; a recipe this size would break any small planetary mixer. But at 57% it should be more pliable. A workout for the machine, but it probably shouldn't overheat it or break it.

 

My guess is that you're kneading it much more than necessary. That recipe uses the old-school approach of throwing all the ingredients into the mixer and letting it work until the dough is perfectly formed. This requires many times more work than more modern approaches.

 

If you're committed to using this method, I'd suggest cutting the recipe by about a third. If you want to make it this size, try the following:

 

1. Add an autolyse step. This means, when you first mix the ingredients together, leave out about a third of the flour. Mix it together with your flat beater, and only until it forms a loose dough. Cover it and let it sit for at least 20 minute. Preferably 40. This allows the starches and proteins in the dough to hydrate, and allows the gluten to start forming. These processes take time whether the dough is being mechanically mixed or not. There aren't advantages to working the dough before it's hydrated. So you and your mixer can just kick back and watch a movie.

 

2. Wet mix. Still with the flat beater, work that soupy dough on low speed for a bit. It will be very wet and, and will quickly get sticky. You don't want to mix too long, or the gluten will start to break down. I'm guessing that with this dough a minute will be enough. If you see it starting to look less elastic, stop. 

 

The dough is so wet that even with the flat beater, this is very easy on the mixer. But it works the bejeezus out of the flour proteins on the molecular level. A minute of this is like 10 or 20 minutes of dry kneading. 

 

3. Switch to the dough Mix in the rest of the flour, only until it's well incorporated. You'll probably have to stop a couple of times to scrape the sides of the bowl. cover the bowl and let it sit again for another 20 minutes, so the new flour can hydrate. Share a cocktail with your mixer.

 

4. Knead with the dough hook. At this point, 90% of the work is done. Use speed 2, and watch closely. If the dough is really stiff, the bowl can be forced off the supports. Mix only until the dough looks smooth and homogenous. This should take at most 4 minutes. The mixer should barely get warm. 

 

5. Lightly flour the counter and finish off with a couple of hand kneads, just to make sure the texture is right. 

 

This method adds time, but greatly reduces the work for you and the machine. It will generally give better results, because you're not overheating or overoxygenating the dough with too much mechanical mixing. 

 

It's not KA's fault that these stiff doughs are hard on the mixer. It's KA's fault for pretending otherwise. For reference, here's Hobart's capacity chart. The N50, on the far left, is their small countertop mixer. It costs over $2000, and is powerful enough to puree a Kitchenaid mixer. Notice that for "Heavy Bread Dough—55%" and for pasta dough, and pizza doughs of any hydration, they don't recommend the mixer at all. They're saying, if you want to do this tough stuff, get a 12 or 20 quart mixer and pay up!

 

I think Hobart's being overly conservative. But then again, you never hear the complaints about Hobart that you do about KA. You're getting what you pay for from each company. But one of them promises too much. 

 

FWIW, you can overheat or break a Kenwood or Delonghi or Cuisinart as easily, if not more so. They're all wimps compared with the Hobart.

paulraphael

paulraphael

11 minutes ago, Shelby said:

 

That's not as bad as some of KA's suggestions. It's about 1300 grams, 57% hydration (taking into account the malt powder).  A lot of bagel dough is 50% hydration; a recipe this size would break any small planetary mixer. But at 57% it should be more pliable. A workout for the machine, but it probably shouldn't overheat it or break it.

 

My guess is that you're kneading it much more than necessary. That recipe uses the old-school approach of throwing all the ingredients into the mixer and letting it work until the dough is perfectly formed. This requires many times more work than more modern approaches.

 

If you're committed to using this method, I'd suggest cutting the recipe by about a third. If you want to make it this size, try the following:

 

1. Add an autolyse step. This means, when you first mix the ingredients together, leave out about a third of the flour. Mix it together with your flat beater, and only until it forms a loose dough. Cover it and let it sit for at least 20 minute. Preferably 40. This allows the starches and proteins in the dough to hydrate, and allows the gluten to start forming. These processes take time whether the dough is being mechanically mixed or not. There aren't advantages to working the dough before it's hydrated. So you and your mixer can just kick back and watch a movie.

 

2. Wet mix. Still with the flat beater, work that soupy dough on low speed for a bit. It will be very wet and, and will quickly get sticky. You don't want to mix too long, or the gluten will start to break down. I'm guessing that with this dough a minute will be enough. If you see it starting to look less elastic, stop. 

 

The dough is so wet that even with the flat beater, this is very easy on the mixer. But it works the bejeezus out of the flour proteins on the molecular level. A minute of this is like 10 or 20 minutes of dry kneading. 

 

3. Switch to the dough Mix in the rest of the flour, only until it's well incorporated. You'll probably have to stop a couple of times to scrape the sides of the bowl. cover the bowl and let it sit again for another 20 minutes, so the new flour can hydrate. Share a cocktail with your mixer.

 

4. Knead with the dough hook. At this point, 90% of the work is done. Use speed 2, and watch closely. If the dough is really stiff, the bowl can be forced off the supports. Mix only until the dough looks smooth and homogenous. This should take at most 4 minutes. The mixer should barely get warm. 

 

5. Lightly flour the counter and finish off with a couple of hand kneads, just to make sure the texture is right. 

 

This method adds time, but greatly reduces the work for you and the machine. It will generally give better results, because you're not overheating or overoxygenating the dough dough with too much mechanical mixing. 

 

It's not KA's fault that these stiff doughs are hard on the mixer. It's KA's fault for pretending otherwise. For reference, here's Hobart's capacity chart. The N50, on the far left, is their small countertop mixer. It costs over $2000, and is powerful enough to puree a Kitchenaid mixer. Notice that for "Heavy Bread Dough—55%" and for pasta dough, and pizza doughs of any hydration, they don't recommend the mixer at all. They're saying, if you want to do this tough stuff, get a 12 or 20 quart mixer and pay up!

 

I think Hobart's being overly conservative. But then again, you never hear the complaints about Hobart that you do about KA. You're getting what you pay for from each company. But one of them promises too much. 

 

FWIW, you can overheat or break a Kenwood or Delonghi or Cuisinart as easily, if not more so. They're all wimps compared with the Hobart.

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