First Impressions 240mm Takeda Gyuto w/ Custom Saya

[C.Morris]

I got my new Takeda 240mm Gyuto Nov. 13, so I've had it now for about a week. I've only had the chance to prepare not quite four meals with it, so I'm only beginning to get a feel for the knife. I've attached a few photos. I think the forge finish is absolutely beautiful!

The quality of the knife is very clear, including a custom saya (which I'm not sure is provided by Takeda or my ChefKnivestoGo.com). My previous main knife is a stainless steel (blade and handle) Shun Chinese cleaver. I maintained the Shun's edge with an Edge Pro system. The Takeda's edge came very sharp, much more so that the Shun. I had some previous experience with a 10" Global knife, but I haven't used it in a while, so there isn't much basis of comparison on that front.

At first I felt somewhat clumsy with the Takeda (which continues until now, although I'm starting to get a grip on it) because I became very used to the balance of the Shun cleaver. I find I'm using more push cutting with the Takeda than I ever used with the Shun. I am not sure whether such technique is appropriate, but the cutting with the Takeda seems most efficient with a push cut motion using just enough slicing to let the blade do all the work.

Carrots and apples have been the best tests of my knife so far. Carrots are cut quite easily, and it's becoming easier as I learn the balance of the Takeda. Something I immediately noticed was that the surface of the cut pieces of carrot were amazingly smooth. The smoothness of the cut surfaces actually felt quite odd at first, but I suppose it is a testament to actually cutting, rather than splitting, a carrot. I had some trouble with an apple at first because I'm tried to use a slicing motion but the edge wouldn't bite into the skin, but when I used more of a pushing motion, the apple opened up quite quickly.

I feel that with a little practice, nothing will be a challenge with the Takeda. While the investment in the Takeda was somewhat daunting (more manageable if you choose to pass on the custom saya ), the knife is worth every penny. My last feeling about the Takeda is that, despite it's very thin edge, the spine of the blade is still fairly thick, so the knife still feels very sturdy (not invincible but not fragile). I still, however, keep my knife in my bedroom, since my kitchen is shared with my three roommates, who I don't quite trust with the Takeda. For them, I lend my Shun, since it's pretty tough.

I hope this first impression review was helpful to someone. Please let me know if you want to know anything else.

Carl

[Chris Amirault]

Very interesting. What else are you planning to do with it?

[C.Morris]

I plan to use it as my primary knife for all my food prep. The only things I'd put it aside for are for very delicate jobs like peeling where a paring knife is more suitable or for rough jobs like cutting around bones, when I think I'd risk chipping the blade.

It seems to be a great all around knife.

[Dakki]

Holy cow that's pretty.

How's sharpening?

[C.Morris]

Thanks Dakki! I haven't tried sharpening it yet. I look forward to seeing how it is it to sharpen, though, since it has a carbon steel blade rather than stainless. I think I'm little scared that I won't be able to put such a nice edge on it, but it'll be a fun experience. Maybe I'll try sharpening it closer to Christmas after I have time to break it in a little more .

[Dakki]

My experience is that you can get a much better edge by hand-sharpening than out-of-the-box, even on knives that are seemingly sharp from the factory.

Did you ever get the EdgePro? I'd try for a fairly radical geometry since you have the Shun for heavy jobs, and polish the heck out of the edge with the finest stones.

You have no idea how jealous I am right now. Take good care of that knife, okay?

[C.Morris]

I'm very excited by the prospect of an even better edge. I have an Edge Pro, but with only the basic medium and fine stones. Do you think those two stones will work well enough until I can get a finer stone?

I was amazingly pleased when I split a head of cauliflower and a cantaloupe. Both were very effortless. I personally would like to try and cut a head of white or savoy cabbage, because they have always been more difficult than they should be with the Shun.

I will protect this knife with my life. This knife will be my baby .

[Dakki]

If you have the fine stone you might want to consider stropping with diamond paste instead of buying finer stones. It takes a bit more hand-eye coordination than the EdgePro but it is very rewarding.

If I just had those two stones my next purchase would be the coarsest stone I could get, for faster reprofiling.

[C.Morris]

I had wondered whether a diamond paste strop would work. Thanks for the recommendation! I've done some stropping before with a straight razor, so it should be the same principle, except that the spine of the knife is narrower in profile and the edge is longer than a straight razor. Any recommendations for a place to buy a strop?

The coarse stone also makes sense to me since re-profiling a knife is quite tedious without appropriately coarse stones. Now I just need to figure out how steep of a bevel my Takeda has right now. It has pretty subtle edge geometry.

[Dakki]

I just use a legal pad, but if you want to get fancy, I'm sure the sorts of places that carry straight razors will have strops as well.

Do you know the magic marker trick for determining bevel angles?

[Prawncrackers]

Very nice fella, I took the same path as you, from the Shun all steel cleaver to the Takeda Gyuto! Mine is the 210mm version, the geometry of these knives is just incredible - the taper becomes so so thin it hurts your eyes trying to focus on the edge.

Word of warning do not ever try to slice a crusty loaf with it, you will cry for all the microchips. Though it is very easy to sharpen, and once you put a mirror polish it will look even better.

[C.Morris]

Dakki,

The legal pad seems like an interesting idea. Do you just apply the diamond paste to the cardboard of a legal pad? I've used the magic marker trick a few times. Thanks for the reminder. It's easy to forget that trick, since I don't often have to re-bevel an edge.

Prawncracker,

It's pretty cool that we both took the same path. How long have you owned your Takeda? I will certainly be wary of the crusty bread. Can you think of any other problematic food items? I would guess most fruits and veggies are fine. What about roast meat?

[Prawncrackers]

I got mine about four years ago. Be careful with any kind of bone, fish or meat, it won't handle it. Though apart from the crusty bread I can't think of anything else to warn you about. It is great for slicing cooked meat, duck breasts especially with the delicate crispy skin.

[Dakki]

I smear the paste on a page, strop (away from the spiral) and tear off the page when I'm done. The paper being rather delicate, it forces me to focus on the angle and use light strokes, which I think helps the final result.

[C.Morris]

Thanks Prawncrackers for the additional advice. I'll be sure to avoid the bones, even the fine fish bones. I love my knife so much right now. I made an egg and tomato soup tonight to complement a chicken and bok choy stir fry in a hoisin based sauce. I love being able to cut chicken into nice thin slices without so much effort (using a sushi chef inspires draw cut on the bias).

Dakki, The legal pad encouraging a light touch seems like a good idea to me. Do you recommend a particular brand of paste, or are they mostly created equal?

[MattyC]

Very nice man, huge fan of the Takada's, but since other than novelty, I haven't been able to justify laying down the $$ for it - already using my custom 10" chefs and chan chi kee cleaver for basically everything, so at this point in time don't really need anything else :-\

Concerning the paste though, since you are going to baby the crap out of that knife, maybe get more than one paste? I tend to rock chromium oxide paste, which is fantastic, but I know a few people that move up in stropping pastes like you do with actual stones so maybe something like chromium or a boron + a diamond?. Haven't heard that legal pad thing, I just use a piece of leather or balsa wood for my pastes - keep stropping until the paste has taken on too much metallic particles (which takes a while) , clean it, reapply paste - easy.

Again though, awesome choice on the knife, little jealous :-p

[C.Morris]

A dual paste setup sounds nice, especially since I'll be going straight from a fine stone to stropping without anything in between. I can't wait until I get the chance to see how it feels after stropping with some paste.

[MattyC]

A dual paste setup sounds nice, especially since I'll be going straight from a fine stone to stropping without anything in between. I can't wait until I get the chance to see how it feels after stropping with some paste.

I've noticed a pretty big difference going from my old setup to stones + paste stropping. Really nice mirror edge, and crazy sharp. Can only imagine how great that will be with the Takada :-p

Pastes are fairly cheap and last awhile too, which is great. I know my little squirt bottle of chromium is only like 15 bucks, and lasts months.

[C.Morris]

Do you have a recommendation on the grit for the paste?

[Sean]

Takedas are 7 degrees per side. I have a Takeda funayuki-bocho and it is a fantastic knife. I typically start at 1000 and then go to 6000 and then 10,000. I finish on a diamond spray loaded felt strop and then a Cromium powder loaded leather strop.

I would not use an Edge Pro Apex because it won't go low enough, angle wise. If you really want to use the Edge Pro you would need to put a shim under the knife in order to produce a low enough angle.

Sean

[C.Morris]

Sean, Thanks for the heads up about the bevel. The moment that you said 7 degrees I realized that the Edge Pro wouldn't work. I'm amazed the blade can hold such an acute angle. How difficult is it to hold such a shallow angle steady?

[Sean]

BTW: I get my sharpening supplies from Japanese Knife Sharpening http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/category-s/27.htm. The diamond spray and chromium powder are excellent. I would also highly recommend the rock hard felt blocks for deburring. The block combined with a diamond spray loaded felt pad were a complete revelation for me to get rid of not only the burr but the wire edge as well.

[Sean]

It isn't too difficult. Use a marker to paint the bevel and that will show you where you are and just take it slow. Also one thing I love about Takedas is that the kiriuchi (sp?) finish hides a lot of sharpening mistakes. It's a lot more forgiving of scratches than a mirror finished Yanigiba or Nenox.

[Dakki]

7 degrees?

I'm more impressed every time I look at this thread.

We use 3M diamond compound at work so that's what I use, but it's probably overkill. Ceramic abrasives like other people have mentioned will be slower but much less expensive, and perfectly adequate for the purpose.

[C.Morris]

Thanks for the recommendation of materials; I'll take it slowly for sure. I found a Norton double sided stone 1000/8000 which might work well when combined with the felt and or leather strops and paste.

I find it slightly ironic that I'm going from sharpening freehand using a Japanese water stone then with some Norton diamond stones (which I unfortunately no longer possess) to an Edge Pro, only to return back to free hand with water stones. I'm sure that I will like the results, though.