Trotter's and Trio lately

[awbrig]

he has been out of the kitchen A LOT lately because of his (now defunct) plans for a restaurant in london (thankfully). i have noticed that his kitchen is a lot more sketchy when he was absent. considerably.

How are you aware of Charlie's presence - or lack of- as you state. Have you been calling to check up on him from over there in KS?

And why are you "thankful" that the London restaurant plans have been put on hold?

How many times have you eaten at Trotters to be such an expert to generalize that the Meat and Game dishes are disappointing? I find them amazing and just as remarkable as the seafood, vegetables and desserts...

i have noticed that his kitchen is a lot more sketchy when he was absent. considerably.

Again, how often are you at the restaurant for you to be able to make this statement?

Are you familiar with Chef Matt Merges? He pretty much runs the kitchen whether Charlie is there or not. His skills are amazing and I doubt that you would be able to tell the difference a dish he created and one that Charlie had - I know I can't. Charlie, himself, calls Chef Matt a better Chef than he is.

[Jinmyo]

awbrig, what kind of meat and game dishes have you particularly enjoyed at Trotter's? Were there none you thought overcooked or poorly sauced?

[awbrig]

Jin,

The only dish I didnt care for much in the last year was a vegetable dish...it was an Asparagus terrine with green and white asparagus...I told my waiter Kurt that it wasn't doing much for me and he quickly removed the dish and brought something else to me...

As far as Meat and Game - Charlie Trotters rocks. He gets the best meat and game from the best purveyers in the country - preferring local farms... Its also exciting to get unusual meats that you dont usually see around Chicago much like Boar, Bison, Grouse, Partridge,etc...and of course Charlie's Foie Gras dishes are simply and utterly unforgettable...

Here are a few really disappointing Meat and Game dishes for you...

Crawford Farm Lamb Loin with Black Trumpet Royal Mushrooms

Roasted Squab with Braised Legumes

Poached Poussin Breast with Mustard Greens and Caramelized Parsnip

Seared Foie Gras with Chestnut and Persimmons

Edited December 4, 2002 by awbrig (log)

[awbrig]

i also find it pretty interesting that even though ballast regime has gone to great writing lengths to criticize Trotter and calling his dishes "crap and inedible"...he still, get ready for this, still considers Charlie Trotter a great inspiration...

The chefs who are inspirations to me include David Bouley, Norman van Aken...... Charlie Trotter's and Trotter's to Go (Chicago)

He also, interestingly enough has stated

Also interested in giving my younger brother, a vegan foodie and 22-year-old music student in graduate school, the best possible restaurant experience he can get (so far 'twas Charlie Trotter's, which did this awesome juice pairing for him, as he doesn't drink alcohol

Funny, doncha think?

[201]

...just because i have received some "crap dishes" at trotter's--and by crap, i mean simply inedible--it doesn't mean that i discount the ostensible talent of trotter's kitchen, which is, in many ways, very versatile and refreshing.  many could argue, quite successfully, that trotter's kitchen is not only more interesting than most of the top kitchens in new york, but that it is also prone to producing some of the greatest culinary highs one will experience on this, if any, continent....

(My emphasis)

Awbrig, I don't think he's panning the place or the chef. He's stating that his own experience with the restaurant is not as consistent as yours obviously is. Granted, "crap" is a very loaded term, but he has also written rather eloquently about Charlie Trotter's strengths.

I think Woody Allen is (was?) a brilliant film-maker, but I also think he put out some "crap" films.

[awbrig]

All right fair enough, although he puts heavy emphasis on the "crap" and "inedible" of the food as well as criticizing the Meat and Game. I really would be curious as to how many different times he has eaten there to get all these disapointing meals...?

Calling some of Trotters food "crap", in my book, pretty much makes me disregard anything he says, just my opinion...

[awbrig]

Awbrig, I don't think he's panning the place or the chef

No? You don't think?

just because i have received some "crap dishes" at trotter's--and by crap, i mean simply inedible

there are a lot of off-moments, where something that is poorly-cooked is plopped down in front of a customer. c'est la vie, man

i have noticed that his kitchen is a lot more sketchy when he was absent. considerably.

unfortunately for trotter, his kitchen is very imperfect, its dishes executed in a manner that one could describe as incomplete and sloppy, and conversely as organic and naturalistic (both assessments would be correct in my mind, because there are dishes the kitchen churns out where the in-the-moment cooking--sometimes where a dish is produced that is different than expected--bolsters the dining experience, but there are just as many moments where it detracts and is ultimately frustrating).

but i know that i will rarely receive a dish that sucks as bad as some of the ones i've had at trotter's

in order to have a decent meal there, you have to pretty much ignore the crap that can occasionally come out (and believe me, it is indeed crap

[ballast_regime]

i've been to charlie trotter's a total of over a dozen times; probably not as many as a lot of people, but enough to draw general conclusions about the restaurant and its cuisine. moreover, i have gone with as little as three people and as many as five, meaning that we did the round-robin strategy of trying each other's food, and there was always someone present who would order each of the tasting menus (i myself usually opt for an all-seafood menu, which has always tended to be very, very inconsistent [the kitchen would often just plop fish down in the place of a meat, using a lot of the same elements (e.g., a red wine reduction or a chicken liver puree) that probably weren't best designed for the type of fish they were using], which is understandable since trotter's kitchen does way more covers per night than, say, gagnaire's, and this is a case where there isn't strength in [customer] numbers). i would say that his meat and game dishes aren't nearly as good as any of those in the top restaurants (re: french) in new york, and are relatively boring. again, this might just be personal taste intervening, so one should take my opinion with a grain, if not salt lick-sized, of salt.

yes, some of his dishes were inedible; i received on average two dishes per visit that i wouldn't touch (and these were primarily the improvised dishes the kitchen made), which is very conceivable. i would think that a restaurant that does as many covers as trotter's (approximately 90) per night wouldn't be as successful with improvisational cuisine as one that does, say, 35 per night. in my book, whenever my time and money's involved, if something's inedible (and incidentally expensive), i would call it "crap." this doesn't mean that i'm panning trotter's overall, as others have pointed out. in this case, i think the sum is greater than its constituent parts, thankfully, as long as one is willing to disregard the bad to mediocre dishes that come out of the kitchen.

i'm glad that trotter's at the hospital failed because i'm not big on chefs spreading themselves too thin; although ducasse's and vongerichten's empires are respectable, they're not something i necessarily enjoy or like. perhaps it's just me. i'm more into boutique-y restaurants where the chef is always present, but that's just me.

lastly, i respect everyone's opinion, and mine is by no means authoritative; it just is. do with it what you will.

[ballast_regime]

201: woody allen is a perfect example; he's my favorite filmmaker simply because he has quantitatively made more films that i like than any other person, even though i HATE 10 of his movies. i respect charlie trotter, and he is certainly one of my favorite chefs. but nothing's perfect.

[Jinmyo]

Very nice photographs, awbrig. Though the foam on the squab doesn't appeal to me.

As for photos, how about some pickled onions of truth!

/This joke will be old be the time you, the gentle reader, stumbles upon it. But it was funny then.

[marcus]

I find that ballast regime's posts re Trotter's have provided the most complete and credible analysis and characterization of this restaurant and have helped me put my own impressions, I've only eaten there twice, into perspective. I really do appreciate.

Awbrig -- I do not personally impugn your overall knowledge of food and restaurants at all, but with regard to Trotter's. I have to discount your views entirely. You have honorably made clear your close personal relationship with the chef and the restaurant, but as a result I cannot accept that you are an objective observer. I do not think that you are being deceitful, but as human beings it is very difficult for us to unravel our inherent conflicts of interest, just as many parents can't evaluate their own children. If there is a Trotter's super enthusiast on the board without special ties to the restaurant, I would be interested in hearing from that person.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Monsieur Regime - I just wanted to say that you have some amazing posts on this thread. Any other places you can free associate about?

[GordonCooks]

I’ll chime in with the measly three times I’ve enjoyed Trotter’s.

For me, Trotter’s was the first restaurant to use the wine pairing as an ingredient to a dish. I believe it was 95 (has it been that long?); I was in the infancy of my culinary renaissance. I returned in 99 for the best of all three meals and later in 2001. Trotter’s service and execution have always been as close to perfect as a place doing 200 covers a night can be. Dishes I have not cared for were mainly my personal taste preference.

When a place sets the bar so high for itself – it’s difficult to keep raising the bar higher and higher. When critiquing a meal –I would ponder if my (or anyone’s) opinion would differ in the meal was eaten elsewhere? Charlie Trotter’s “is” Charlie Trotter’s – it’s funny how anything less than perfect is unacceptable – But I think that’s how Charlie wants it and so, has to bear the responsibility

To whom do I make the comparison?

I’ve dined locally at Everest, Blackbird, MK, both of Bayless’ joints, Spago, Brasserie T, Aubriot, NoMi, Dining Room at the Ritz, in addition to (old) Daniel, Le Cirque (Sottha & Pierre), Lutece, L’Espinasse (Kunz), Le Bernadin, Union Pacific, Nobu, Morimoto, Le Bec Fin, Blue Ginger, Clio, Olives, blah, blah, blah, …..I would still put the 95 or 99 meal as one of my favorite personal dining experiences in the US.

If anything, Trotter’s may feel dated in comparison because they rarely adjust to any trend – they do their own thing.

[ballast_regime]

marcus: thanks for the comments. charlie trotter's is definitely a great restaurant.

steve: thank you for the encouragement; too often i have been a voyeur here at egullet, reading everyone's posts daily. problem is, i'm a 24-year-old with limited income and time who is obsessed with food. i find that all too often i am not taken seriously enough at restaurants--primarily due to my age--and so i have this complex about not necessarily wanting to state my mind, given that most foodies are twice my age and have twice, maybe even ten, times my experience with restaurants and dining out (this is something i have only been doing obsessively [and i mean fanatically] for approximately four years of my life, which is just enough time to read nearly a thousand books on the subject and over-extend my resources to experience all things culinary); given time, i'll probably have more confidence, but i feel like i'm always learning, thankfully, even when i disagree with someone. i know awbrig said that my opinion should be scrapped, maybe respectably so, but even when i don't necessarily agree with what someone's saying in a post, i still tend to take it seriously, learn from it.

i don't know if i can share my two cents about other restaurants--and there are a lot i have feelings about--but in time. . . i will. in the mean time. . . i'll just keep reading, and posting occasionally.

[awbrig]

Ballast,

Im sorry I said your opinion should be scrapped - it shouldn't...you are a fine writer and convey your thoughts well...

Charlie Trotters is my favorite restaurant (obviously) and when someone attacks it - I am especially cautious about that persons opinions on other things since I hold Trotter to such a high regard almost to a fault sometimes...

Anyway, I enjoy your posts and wish you the best

Edited December 5, 2002 by awbrig (log)

[Jinmyo]

There, now wer're all friends again.

[baphie]

problem is, i'm a 24-year-old with limited income and time who is obsessed with food.  i find that all too often i am not taken seriously enough at restaurants--primarily due to my age--

Keep the faith!

I know exactly what you are talking about. When my wife and I went to Maisonette in Cinncinnati (a Mobil ***** 39 years running), we definitely felt treated less than welcome on account of our age (mid and late 20's at that time.) Not long after, we went to Trotter's and the contrast was immeasurable- because we wanted to be there, we were honored guests and we had a wonderful time and a meal that set a very high standard for meals to come. In the six years since that time, we have been fortunate enough to dine across the country and across the world and have never returned to Maisonette (despite the high quality of the food) which is less than 90 minutes from where we live.

Voting with your dollars (hard-earned now, but hopefully to be more in the future) is the best revenge.

A.

[ballast_regime]

awbrig: damn, i was expecting a showdown in egullet's corral, but, if we must be friends, so be it.

[Suvir Saran]

Ballast,

Im sorry I said your opinion should be scrapped - it shouldn't...you are a fine writer and convey your thoughts well...

Charlie Trotters is my favorite restaurant (obviously) and when someone attacks it - I am especially cautious about that persons opinions on other things since I hold Trotter to such a high regard almost to a fault sometimes...

Anyway, I enjoy your posts and wish you the best

Awbrig,

That was very special. I would be remiss in not acknowledging your very gracious post. Shows you are a fine person. Maybe we can all learn to be so generous, even if only a little late.

I have enjoyed Ballast's posts. And am glad you can give him credit where it is due. In fact I wish after your post above, he will find it in him to feel encouraged to post more often.

Also, you are not alone Awbrig in being blind to what can be failures in those we hold at such high esteem. Most of us cannot see flaws in those we respect that greatly. But you have not only seen your fault, but you have accepted it so beautifully in words. Many thanks!

I am so happy we have eGullet. We know how to argue.. and we know how to be honest and kind. What more could one ask for.

[Jinmyo]

What more could one ask for.

Steak.

[Fat Guy]

What more could one ask for.

May I please have a hug?

[Suvir Saran]

awbrig:  damn, i was expecting a showdown in egullet's corral, but, if we must be friends, so be it. 

Your posts are terrific. We do not discriminate on eGullet. We do not care what your age is... or where you live or with whom.. all we care is that you share your food related experiences with us and often...

I hope you will not deprive us of your posts. Keep posting..... I have felt I was in Chicago dining at Trotters. Thanks!

[Suvir Saran]

What more could one ask for.

Steak.

I send a nice Curry Steak your way Jin!

[Suvir Saran]

What more could one ask for.

May I please have a hug?

You are too cheap. And I am expensive.

[Fat Guy]

Ballast: Many of us are younger than you might think. Suvir, for example, is 16. I am 14. Bux, however, is every bit of the 91 he seems to be.