Is this trip UN-REASONABLE?

[Ore]

Thanks for reading this post.

My wife and I are almost ready to leave Los Angeles for Paris. Briefly, our trip goes like this...we land in Paris June 17 and leave from Amsterdam on June 27 (late night). So we have all that time in-between to do what we want! Our itinerary is below. I am requesting any help/assistance in dining and hotel recommendations as well as an overall opinion on the itinerary. All comments are appreciated.

• June 17 arrive in Paris. I've been a few times but my wife hasn't. We will be staying with family in Paris. We'd like to do as much as possible in the short time that we have. I'd like to go to a good restaurant on June 17th. We're willing to spend up to 200 Euro for the meal but would rather spend less. We'd like something French. Wine, great food, cheese, etc. but homey and friendly. We have plans with family for the Friday night dinner. Saturday AM we pick up the rental car and leave...
  
• June 19 leave Paris for Cannes with a rental car. We love driving and don't mind it at all - we even think it is more convenient than trains, etc. The drive from Paris to Cannes is about 900 km which should take about 8 hours. We would like to split this trip with a stop somewhere beautiful between Paris and Cannes where we can get a great meal (1 Michelin Star is plenty) and stay at a nice, small hotel or B&B.
  
• June 20 (Sunday) arrive in Cannes. Here we will be staying with family as well. This part of our trip is where we get to rest and hang out a bit. We plan on taking day trips to the surrounding cities, etc. and any tips on fine eateries is appreciated. So we'll stay in Cannes Sunday night, Monday nigh and Tuesday night.
  
• June 23 (Wednesday) AM we leave for Parma. I lived near Parma and would like to go back to the restaurant I worked at to visit them and say hello. The drive from Cannes to the restaurant near Parma is 420 km which should take about 4 hours. I'd like to stop somewhere in between for lunch (maybe Genova or a town nearby) and get to Parma in the afternoon. Dinner, of course, will be at Al Vedel!
  
• June 24 we leave Parma with our sight on Amsterdam. From Parma to Amsterdam is 1,200 km which is about 11 hours of driving. We'd like to split this with one night around the 500 to 900 km area. This is where I could really use some suggestions. In one direction we can go through France and then Luxembourg and Belgium and in the other direction go through Germany. Possible options are Strasbourg and Luxembourg but your help is greatly appreciated here.
  
• June 25 arrive in Amsterdam. Take in the city before our flight on Sunday night. Any great dining opportunities is greatly appreciated here as well (I do know about Maoz Falafel and the Vlamsefrites from past visits!)

So - now that you have an idea of what we are trying to accomplish...what do you think??!??

Thank you for taking the time to reply to this post.

Ore

[KD1191]

Unreasonable? No, not really...though some of the legs might be a bit longer than I'd personally call comfortable. Looks like it'll be about 2,500 KM total, split over 5 days of driving. By comparison, my wife and I just returned from a 2,700 KM trip (through Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, France and Belgium) over 7 days. It was a lot of driving, and thankfully we very much enjoyed it in our new car, but we only had one particularly long leg (and that was around 6.5 hours).

There are many wonderful restaurants in Paris where it is far too easy to spend €200. By comparison, that money will get you much further while you are out on your journey. For example, you can have an absolutely *** tasting menu at L'Arnsbourg in the Vosges for €115/pp.

Speaking of, if possible, on the Parma to Amsterdam route, I highly recommend stopping at Hotel K/L'Arnsbourg (outside Baerenthal, France). Even if you don't step foot in the restaurant, it's worth going...the valley is the picture of serenity and breakfast at the Hotel is (for my money) the best in the world.

To the extent your route overlaps with ours, you may find some of the recommendations in the thread here helpful.

[lesliec]

You might want to re-think some of your time estimates. Yes, there are some lovely roads in Europe but AVERAGING over 100km/h, even on motorways, seems on the high side of overoptimistic. You've got to get out of Paris first ...

[Aloha Steve]

If you go thru Germany, when on the Autoban, just can go as fast as your car can go.

That might sway your decision as to route.

[KD1191]

If you go thru Germany, when on the Autoban, just can go as fast as your car can go.

That might sway your decision as to route.

While true, I'd suggest tempering enthusiasm here, as well. We spent a lot of time on the autobahn a few weeks ago... >50% of that time was on roads that were under construction (with severely reduced speed limits) and more than half of the rest of the time it was raining, further hampering our need for speed. Still managed to get up to ~180 km/h a couple times, which was fun, but the nature of the autobahn didn't cut any time off our trip.

[Ore]

The need for speed thing is pretty funny! I have a rental quote from Hertz at $490 including fees and drop-charge.

Can anyone recommend an Amsterdam Hotel. Looking to spend our last two nights in Amsterdam in a nicer hotel and personal recommendations are always best.

Thank You.

[Parigi]

"# June 17 arrive in Paris. I've been a few times but my wife hasn't. We will be staying with family in Paris. We'd like to do as much as possible in the short time that we have. I'd like to go to a good restaurant on June 17th. We're willing to spend up to 200 Euro for the meal but would rather spend less. We'd like something French. Wine, great food, cheese, etc. but homey and friendly."

On the day you arrive? Remember you will be jetlagged. Nodding off on your plate is not the same thing as enjoying it. I would suggest you make the major meal your lunch. Then have a very light dinner and turn in.

"# June 19 leave Paris for Cannes with a rental car. We love driving and don't mind it at all - we even think it is more convenient than trains, etc. The drive from Paris to Cannes is about 900 km which should take about 8 hours."

Accent on the "should". In my experience it is about 2 hours longer.

"We would like to split this trip with a stop somewhere beautiful between Paris and Cannes where we can get a great meal (1 Michelin Star is plenty) and stay at a nice, small hotel or B&B."

Arles is a good stop. Beautiful town with lots of Roman ruins, near the freeway and has lots of good eateries, including starred temples like Rabanel, but many lowkey good bistros too. Hotel du musée is in a great building in the old town where you can walk everywhere.

In general I find your short trip has way too much driving. If you like to drive and see this trip as mainly the pleasure of driving, then great. It does not seem to be a trip for any actual visiting or enjoying. After all, freeways in France or Germany don't look or feel much different from freeways in other countries.

[JudyB]

"We would like to split this trip with a stop somewhere beautiful between Paris and Cannes where we can get a great meal (1 Michelin Star is plenty) and stay at a nice, small hotel or B&B."

Arles is a good stop. Beautiful town with lots of Roman ruins, near the freeway and has lots of good eateries, including starred temples like Rabanel, but many lowkey good bistros too. Hotel du musée is in a great building in the old town where you can walk everywhere.

In general I find your short trip has way too much driving. If you like to drive and see this trip as mainly the pleasure of driving, then great. It does not seem to be a trip for any actual visiting or enjoying. After all, freeways in France or Germany don't look or feel much different from freeways in other countries.

I'd be concerned about the amount of driving too (from England we have always used Motorail to get to the south of France).

Another place to consider on the way to Cannes would be La Beaugraviere at Mondragon, which is about 6 hours driving from Paris (according to ViaMichelin). We've never been there ourselves but it has been recommended on here in the past, with particular praise for its cellar (which is one reason we've never made it there).

[Ore]

Parigi, I am checking out Arles and the hotel option you mentioned. Have you been to the restaurant "Cilantro"?

JudyB, I have asked if there is availability at La Beaugraviere. I hope so as it seems intimate and could be a great experience. It seems though that there isn't as much going on as in Arles.

KD1191, the website for Hotel K says they are full but I sent an email anyway. Where else would you stay nearby in order to enjoy dinner there and breakfast the next day!?!

Thanks for your help.

[glauer]

Could you specify a little what kind of food excites you most?

(Though it seems that you enjoy driving on highways the most...I actually think the trip is not just unreasonable, but insane......well, as long as you think it is fun all is good)

In any case, there are plenty of exciting restaurants and sights on the way, far too many really, so you need to guide us a bit what you would be most interested in.

Edited June 9, 2010 by glauer (log)

[KD1191]

KD1191, the website for Hotel K says they are full but I sent an email anyway. Where else would you stay nearby in order to enjoy dinner there and breakfast the next day!?!

Have hope, the website always says they are full and yet I've been able to e-mail and secure a room and dinner reservation. That said, I'm usually booking a month or more in advance, and they only have maybe 7 rooms, so it is possible they are actually full at this time. You might try reservation@arnsbourg.com and/or hotelk@wanadoo.fr for a slightly quicker reply than the Relais & Châteaux address.

Unfortunately, there's really no where else within miles of it...the hotel was built so people wouldn't have to travel so far to eat at the restaurant. And, I don't believe breakfast is offered to those not staying at the Hotel.

[Ore]

glauer, I am most into foods that I can't get here in Los Angeles. I'd kill for some Ortolan Really though, we want food that is prepared by a chef who prides himself on what he does and that pride shows through on his/her plates. I really would like to find a place that is friendly and generous. I don't mind spending some money (100E+) pp but I want to leave a place like that feeling like I didn't just get worked. I'd love to have wine paired meals and a grand cheese cart offered before sweets. I'm not into the whole asian/french thing going on right now at a lot of the restaurants I've seen.

I know you think we're crazy but we are also young and I hope that a trip like this opens our eyes to what is out there in the world so we know where we can visit again one day soon.

Thanks for your help.

edited to add that I hope you don't think I'm crazy cuz Boston just lost and I'm from LA

Edited June 9, 2010 by Ore (log)

[Parigi]

Parigi, I am checking out Arles and the hotel option you mentioned. Have you been to the restaurant "Cilantro"?

Yes, delicious.

I know you think we're crazy but we are also young and I hope that a trip like this opens our eyes to what is out there in the world so we know where we can visit again one day soon.

Unfortunately you miss all the two dozen listed most beautiful villages of France, - by two dozene I am bearing in mind only those listed villages near the freeway, - which you won't get a glimpse of from the the freeway. Since you asked if we think your trip is unreasable, - unless your question is a rhetorical one, - I'd say it is self-defeatingly unreasonable. If you want your eyes open to what is out there, you need to get out there and not stay on anonymous freeways.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Parigi (log)

[KD1191]

Freeways are a means to an end...yes, this trip involves large stretches of driving, and for many that would suggest the scope should be narrower, but with family in Paris & Cannes and roots of a sort in Parma, it doesn't sound like Le Grand Voyage is being undertaken for the sake of the drive.

Certainly we missed many quaint villages on our similar trip (though we did manage to visit Obernai, Riquewihr, Saint-Pierre-de-Chartreuse, Pommard and others...), but we also were able to accomplish many wonderful things with only one set of transoceanic flights (which, at 6'4", I'm never keen on). We never could have toured the mountains and caves of the Peres Chartreux after dining on Jean-Georges Klein's masterful cuisine without enduring a bit of the cursed freeway (a misnomer, as the tolls in France are high...not even considering the nearly $8/gallon gas) in between.

Edited June 9, 2010 by KD1191 (log)

[Ore]

I'm busted...

My wife read some of the comments on here and we are looking at this in a new light.

Old Itinerary:

June 17 – Paris

June 18 – Paris

June 19 – Drive 9 Hours to Arles, France

June 20 – Drive 2 Hours to Cannes

June 21 – Cannes

June 22 – Cannes

June 23 – Drive to Strasbourg, France (11 Hours with a stop in Italy)

June 23 – Strasbourg

June 24 – Strasbourg

June 25 – Drive 8 Hours to Amsterdam

June 26 – Amsterdam

June 27 – Depart Amsterdam

Total Driving: 30 Hours-34 Hours

New Itinerary:

June 17 – Paris

June 18 – Paris

June 19 – Paris

June 20 – Paris

June 21 – Drive 6 Hours to Strasbourg

June 22 – Strasbourg

June 23 – Strasbourg

June 24 – Drive 6 Hours to Amsterdam

June 25 – Amsterdam

June 26 – Amsterdam

June 27 – Depart Amsterdam

Total Driving: 12-15 Hours

So with the "NEW" Itinerary - places to eat, sleep, visit, etc. s'il vous plaît.

Ore

[chris-s]

Try Le Formal in Aix en Provence if you like the Adria/Blumenthal approach to food.

The Menu Expressionisme at 45Euros is incredible value. If you like truffles, the Menu Hédoniste has lots of them, albeit Tuber Aestivum rather than melanosporum, at 65 Euros.

Check it out on Tripadvisor or at their own website www.restaurant-leformal.fr.

Edited June 9, 2010 by chris-s (log)

[MacD]

I agree that going to Arles "on the way" to Cannes in an already hectic schedule is not a great idea, but your original itinerary would have been ok if you found somewhere to stop between Dijon and Lyon.

[42390]

Not true about nowhere else good to stay close to l'Arnsbourg. There is a very charming 1 star (used to be 2 star but changed chefs and lost a star)called Auberge du Cheval Blanc in Lembach http://www.au-cheval-blanc.fr/.

While Hotel K was just opened in 2006, this place has been around forever but they did add 6 new spa rooms recently. The restaurant is fundamentally different from l'Arnsbourg. Cheval Blanc is more traditional but with very high skill level, l'Arnsbourg is one of the most inventive in France. Of course if you stay there you have no obligation to eat at the restaurant. Lembach is very charming and you will probably need a GPS to find l'Arnsbourg.

Also, that stretch of autobahn between about Basel and Essen is always very busy, which is I guess is what you would take to get to Amsterdam, no way you will average 100km per hour through there. Picture of Lembach / Cheval Blanc attached.

[Ore]

Beautiful - thank you.

From Basel I think we will take the A35 to Strasbourg. Then I hope to Cheval Blanc - Wow the place looks amazing and they seem to be fairly priced. I sent an email request and I do hope to be able to visit on a Thursday night.

So we'll spend a night in Strasbourg and then a night in Lembach and enjoy that day visiting the surrounding area.

The drive from Lembach to Amsterdam will be a fun one...7 hours or so!

Ore

[Ore]

Not true about nowhere else good to stay close to l'Arnsbourg. There is a very charming 1 star (used to be 2 star but changed chefs and lost a star)called Auberge du Cheval Blanc in Lembach http://www.au-cheval-blanc.fr/.

Auberge du Cheval Blanc is CLOSED June 21 to July 13

[cmling]

This is a bit off-topic, but learning that the Cheval Blanc has a new chef reminded me of the inexorable passage of time. I had a one-week cooking course there in 1986 with Fernand Mischler, and his father was still alive, too. (In case you were wondering, I enjoyed myself hugely - and learned a lot as well.)

[42390]

Well that is an odd time to close but here is another option in the immediate area, Restaurant Hotel Anthon.

http://www.restaurant-anthon.fr/tarif.php

This one is in Obersteinbach, just a few minutes down the road from Lembach. True the restaurant there is not up to Cheval Blanc standards but is still good, very reasonable prices. Disclaimer - I have only eaten there once and that was in 2004 but would have no problem returning.

They do have guest rooms that look quite decent from their website but I have never stayed there. Just throwing it out as an option. It is charming, Obersteinbach is even smaller than Lembach, just a wide spot in the road, calm and tranquil.

[glauer]

You could also stay on the German side of the highway. The Schwarzer Adler in Oberbergen is a rather unique place in that is has not much changed in many many years. They used to be one of the first great french restaurants in Germany in the 70s (**) and have retained a * every since, without change in concept. The key to a wonderful time there is to give some instructions with your reservation a) pre-order the truffled chicken cooked in a pigs bladder and b) ask the Sommeliere to think about a special bottle to open before you come. They have one of the most extensive lists in Germany with many old vintages of Bordeaux and also Burgundy. In addition they own one of the better German wineries as well. All wine at very reasonable prices, especially the older vintages. You can also get a room there. And in good weather sit on the terrace under the wisteria. And you will get your cheese cart.

http://www.franz-keller.de/

[Ore]

http://www.franz-keller.de/

There are some specials on their website in the "Arrangements" section but I can't make sense of it using a translating website. It says there is a special for a night at the hotel + dinner but that the restaurant is closed!?! If you can, please explain. I tried contacting them as well.

Do you think this is a hotel which can be used for visiting the alsace wineries and then returning to? OR is this hotel for one night from Parma to Franz Keller and then the next night stay somewhere more in the wine area?

Thanks.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Ore (log)

[glauer]

It says that you cannot book the arrangement on Wednesday and Thursday, because these days the restaurant is closed.

But try really hard to eat one of their chicken dishes for two (they might not be available in the arrangements......but I would ask). The restaurant is overall quite good, if you like classical food, but the truffled chicken in the pigsbladder is a special treat, that very few places still offer.

And to be sacrilegious (full disclaimer: I am German): you should also explore the wine area around Oberbergen. With few exceptions in Alsace, I think these days they make the better wine (and the dryer ones!) .And you won't find these at home.