Diwan

[Suzanne F]

This is what I meant about it being unfair to critique a restaurant on only one meal. Although now I'm not sure to whom it's unfair. Maybe "inaccurate" would be more accurate.

[tommy]

It's not a question of subjectivity. Toby and I have both posted on things we liked at the banquet but found poor on a second visit.

but wilfrid's not suggesting comparing the same meal at different times. he's suggesting 2 people comparing the same meal at the same time. unless you're not referring to my use of "subjective," in which case i'll just shut up. all this talk of diwan, i think i'll go for lunch.

[Wilfrid]

But, Suzanne, it would stifle much discussion on eGullet if we didn't. I eat out a lot, but there are very few restaurants I visit more than once or twice a year.

[tommy]

But, Suzanne, it would stifle much discussion on eGullet if we didn't.

much of the discussion on egullet *needs* stifling.

as long as it's clear that you've only been there once, assuming you're trashing the place, what's the big deal? people will draw their own conclusions, and at the end of the day, it makes for pleasant reading, which is why (most) of us are here to begin with. i make many recs based on one visit.

[g.johnson]

It's not a question of subjectivity. Toby and I have both posted on things we liked at the banquet but found poor on a second visit.

but wilfrid's not suggesting comparing the same meal at different times. he's suggesting 2 people comparing the same meal at the same time. unless you're not referring to my use of "subjective," in which case i'll just shut up. all this talk of diwan, i think i'll go for lunch.

I think Jason was suggesting that the different reactions to Diwan were due to different people's subjective preferences. But if Toby and I can have different responses at different times, that seems unlikely.

[Suzanne F]

Wilfrid, life is unfair.

Therefore we should just keep toddling along as we have been. Although Tommy does have a point . . .

[Wilfrid]

Not while he's got a thread about his own dinner plans, he doesn't.

[Joy]

This old Chowhound thread from 1999 that I pointed out yesterday on the New Yorkan topic in which Rachel and I pretty much said that Jim Leff's favorite Korean restaurant -- which was apparently favored by critics as well, much like Diwan has -- was nothing special, we got pounded for it. I just didn't think it was worth schlepping to Flushing from Jersey, thats all.

Looks to me like you got pounded for saying the chef should stop cooking Korean.

[macrosan]

Wilfrid, life is unfair.

Now that is an unreasonable postulate if ever I heard one. Suzanne, life is always entirely fair, it's people who are unfair.

Wilfrid, please dismount your hobby-horse immediately. Unrepresentative in this thread means "not representative of the general experience of people posting on this thread" and you know that perfectly well You found your meal at Diwan "average" whereas most (shall we say 64.7% ?) found their meal at Diwan very good or better. Actually, why that is so is of relatively little importance. Perhaps your palate is better attuned to top-quality Indian meals than others, perhaps your palate enjoys spices less, perhaps you are less easily pleased, or perhaps you were served an inferior meal. Or all of the above. I do not quarrel with your assessment, nor deny that you may be "right" and the others "wrong" because none of that is of value to me. I have noted your comments, and take them into account in making the one important decision I may take in response to this thread ---

"Should I go to Diwan next time I'm in New York?"

The rest is just puff

[Jason Perlow]

This old Chowhound thread from 1999 that I pointed out yesterday on the New Yorkan topic in which Rachel and I pretty much said that Jim Leff's favorite Korean restaurant -- which was apparently favored by critics as well, much like Diwan has -- was nothing special, we got pounded for it. I just didn't think it was worth schlepping to Flushing from Jersey, thats all.

Looks to me like you got pounded for saying the chef should stop cooking Korean.

I got pounded for a lot of things, but yes, that was one of them. And I still stand by it. The place was totally undistinctive compared to the hundreds of Korean restaurants in Flushing and the chef was trained in haute cuisine and pastry -- she'd have been much more successful doing something else if she was married to the idea doing of doing a restaurant in that location, or doing it somewhere else.

But again, thats a subjective opinion on the restaurant. Just like Wilfrid's is about Diwan.

Edited April 1, 2003 by Jason Perlow (log)

[Priscilla]

When *I* go to Diwan I want to have the Self-Fulfilling Prophecy Menu.

[Wilfrid]

If people keep calling my opinion "subjective" I shall revenge myself by starting a big debate about subjectivity and objectivity in taste. It was as much an "objective" assessment of the meal as a "subjective" opinion about the meal, but I can happily do without the distinction.

[Fat Guy]

I can happily do without the distinction.

Promises, promises . . .

[tommy]

When *I* go to Diwan I want to have the Self-Fulfilling Prophecy Menu.

HA!

the one thing that really bothers me about diwan, and this in fact is a very big problem, is the fact that every time i'm there, "smooth operator", by what i assume is "sade," is playing. this song gets in yer noggin, and doesn't leave for days.

Edited April 1, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Wilfrid]

In this respect, my experience was indeed representative. I even tried to impress my Beloved with the fact that Sade comes from Clacton, an unglamorous Essex seaside resort. But the information didn't appear to shake her world.

[Liza]

So that's one Self Fulfilling Prophesy menu with a side of Sade. And a corkage fee. Check.

[SobaAddict70]

HA!   

the one thing that really bothers me about diwan, and this in fact is a very big problem, is the fact that every time i'm there, "smooth operator", by what i assume is "sade," is playing.  this song gets in yer noggin, and doesn't leave for days.     

Not only that, but it's the SAME CD played over and over again.

Surely they've got a better music selection. Now, I like Sade, but only in measured amounts.

Soba

[g.johnson]

Sade comes from Clacton.

Does Not Compute.

[Wilfrid]

Ah good, I've shaken someone's world anyway.

[cabrales]

That doesn't mean it's bad; it just means that the level of excitement bewilders me.

Wilfrid -- I empathize with your position. Note I have never eaten at Diwan, nor do I want to, subjectively. (I find Indian cuisine stark in general, although I have never willingly explored it and, when I take it in, tend to get coerced into it by dining companions.)

Could it be possible that there might be less bewilderment if a member were to focus on the relationships that Suvir or applicable other diners might have with the personnel at the restaurant, and what effects (if any) such relationships might produce on the quality of the cuisine offered (if not on such quality as perceived)? My sense is that simple VIP treatment of other diners might explain the discrepancies. As Orik as noted, he has eaten there dozens of times. Suvir's relationship with the restaurant, and Fat Guy's dining experiences there, are also evident on the board.

Also, I am not offering the following potentially relevant consideration as it relates to Suvir, Fat Guy, Orik or you, but perhaps a regular diner at Diwan's expectations of Indian cuisine are so low (based on the average quality of the Indian restaurants in NY and the fact that, subjectively for me at least, there are superior cuisines), that they are more impressed by Diwan because of some element of surprise. In other words, if one expects an average meal and receives a good one, one might be more pleased than if one expected and received a good meal.

Edited April 1, 2003 by cabrales (log)

[tommy]

i am certainly "known" at diwan. although i can't imagine that plays much of a part in the quality of the food that comes out. i'm just ordering from the menu, or going to the buffet.

i haven't experienced much inconsistency over my multiple visits as some diners have, though i don't doubt that those inconsistencies could exist. please note that my dining at diwan has largely been limited to lunch.

diwan certainly did surprise me. so did blue hill, but not in a good way. i think the "VIP" issue is certainly a valid one at some restaurants, and some relationships. nothing wrong with that, of course.

Edited April 1, 2003 by tommy (log)

[awbrig]

Tommy, I heard not only are you a VIP at all the places you frequent but also the MVP!

[cabrales]

although i can't imagine that plays much of a part in the quality of the food that comes out.  i'm just ordering from the menu, or going to the buffet.

In the case of the buffet, I think that would be clear.

On the buffet, do you find it odd that a restaurant could purport to offer high quality hot/warm food as part of a buffet? Do members think that a gastronomic restaurant should be offering buffets? Are there particular cuisines, such as Indian cuisines, where buffets "hurt" the food less (e.g., if there are heating devices and the warm/hot food is kept around)? If the answer is yes, what might that say about the cuisine?

Edited April 1, 2003 by cabrales (log)

[tommy]

In the case of the buffet, I think that would be clear. 

LOL! well, i don't, in my mind, or out loud, compare the offerings from the buffet with what i get when i order from the menu.

[Fat Guy]

Could it be possible that there might be less bewilderment if a member were to focus on the relationships that Suvir or applicable other diners might have with the personnel at the restaurant, and what effects (if any) such relationships might produce on the quality of the cuisine offered (if not on such quality as perceived)?

I've been to Diwan without Suvir and, as far as I know, have been unrecognized. Likewise, I assume Eric Asimov has done all his dining there anonymously, as is his standard practice. But of course you're just attempting to cast a shadow of doubt on the motives and integrity of Suvir, me, and "applicable other diners." Some of us, however, are able to judge food without being overly influenced by our idiosyncratic personal feelings and our relationships. Coming from someone who hasn't been to the restaurant, and who considers a visit to an Indian restaurant coercive, I can't take these questions very seriously, and neither should anybody else.