Sushi etiquette

[JasonTrue]

While I'm sympathetic to this point, in Japanese etiquette, one's primary responsibility is not to an outsider such as a chef, but to one's dining companions.

So far, nobody has disagreed with the premise that the very best nigiri is packed loosely. Nobody has disagreed with the premise that, when you're sitting at a very good sushi bar and being served by the sushi chef, if you eat with chopsticks the chef has no choice but to pack your sushi tighter than is ideal. If those points are correct -- and I think they are, though perhaps someone will disagree -- then I believe those points translate into a statement about etiquette: in that context, eating sushi with chopsticks forces the chef to diminish his craft. To me, it is inconsiderate to force a fine craftsman to choose between craft and hospitality, especially when there's such an easy solution: picking the sushi up with your hands.

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[helenjp]

Nobody has disagreed with the premise that, when you're sitting at a very good sushi bar and being served by the sushi chef, if you eat with chopsticks the chef has no choice but to pack your sushi tighter than is ideal.

OK, I'll disagree! I only once recall the rice of a nigiri-zushi falling apart, and I think that sushi packed that loosely will fall apart as readily in your fingers as in your chopsticks...if you are used to using chopsticks, that is!

Of all the sushi joints in all the towns in all Japan that I've been into, nobody has ever asked me whether or not I planned to use chopsticks before filling my sushi order, and I think they would if they thought it was important. And in case you wanted to ask, there is enough fine sushi in my history to make this evidence relevant to the question of etiquette!

If the sushi rice is fresh and glossy, then it has enough "stick" to stay in one piece. If it's crumbly rather than soft and very slightly springy, perhaps the rice is a lower quality rice without sufficient amylopectin, or perhaps it has been sitting around a little too long.

The "hands" option seems to be regarded as anything from acceptable to laudable, but chopsticks are not a solecism.

As for forks etc., that's a separate issue, isn't it? In a Japanese sushi shop, you would simply need to bring your own fork if you wanted to use one.

[Fat Guy]

While I'm sympathetic to this point, in Japanese etiquette, one's primary responsibility is not to an outsider such as a chef, but to one's dining companions.

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That's the same as in the West. Of course, if you're out with people who use chopsticks, you shouldn't make them uncomfortable or shame them by insisting on the superiority of using your hands. But at a sushi bar you're not likely to be in a big group. You're most likely a party of one or two, maybe three. There's also a lot of interaction with the sushi chef in that sort of situation. I mean, the reason I eat sushi with my hands is because after I'd developed a rapport with Shin Tsujimura at Nobu in New York City he told me one day that I should. It wasn't a big deal. He just said, "Why don't you try picking it up with your hand?" Later he explained what Corson explains above: that the chef can make better nigiri for you if you're willing to use your hands to eat it.

[Fat Guy]

Of all the sushi joints in all the towns in all Japan that I've been into, nobody has ever asked me whether or not I planned to use chopsticks before filling my sushi order

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Filling an order isn't the scenario I'm talking about. At the better sushi bars, when you're one on one with the chef, your order doesn't get filled all at once on a platter. The pieces are made one at a time and placed in front of you to eat. So once you eat your first piece the chef knows how to fabricate the rest. And if you're a regular the chef knows your preferences -- not just how you eat but how much (which can affect how much rice is used).

[JasonTrue]

I'd tend to argue that this particular obsession is rare inside Japan; it might be shorthand to indicate that Americans are sloppy enough with chopsticks that they tend to squeeze too hard, rather than using the chopsticks as an extension of their fingers, thus inviting disaster.

While I've heard Japanese chefs based in the US assert something along the lines that it is "better" to eat sushi with one's hands, I've never heard that in Japan. Just that it's perfectly acceptable. The sushi chef will neither be offended nor impressed, nor feel like you are doing his art some special kind of justice.

[prasantrin]

While I've heard Japanese chefs based in the US assert something along the lines that it is "better" to eat sushi with one's hands, I've never heard that in Japan. Just that it's perfectly acceptable.

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Well according to some, what is generally practised in Japan is irrelevent to this discussion. One must look only at sushi chefs (I assume those of a particular reputation, not any old ordinary sushi chef) and sushi "connoisseurs" for opinions of any weight (I'm not quite sure what qualifies Trevor Corson as a sushi connoisseur since his "expertise" seems to come from studying Buddhism in Japan, trailing sushi-chefs-in-training at a sushi school in California, and his appointing himself as a "sushi concierge").

I suppose statements attempting to "demystify" the eating style of a particular culture are necessary to help outsiders feel some sort of superiority due to their "inside knowledge" (which apparently often surpasses the knowledge of people of that culture). However would books be sold without those little gems?

[insomniac]

as a neutral in this discussion, being a mere sushi lover ,I find the arguments posed by locals/long term Japan residents to be more persuasive... to the others, a good effort with a stumble at the final hurdle...

Edited July 16, 2008 by insomniac (log)

[Fat Guy]

I'm not quite sure what qualifies Trevor Corson as a sushi connoisseur since his "expertise" seems to come from studying Buddhism in Japan, trailing sushi-chefs-in-training at a sushi school in California, and his appointing himself as a "sushi concierge"

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Trevor Corson and I are not sushi experts. We're journalists. That means that, among other things, we interview experts in a given subject area and report that information to our readers. I've spoken to about a dozen sushi chefs -- Japanese-trained sushi chefs currently working in North America -- about the best way to eat sushi. Corson's research has been much more extensive -- I think he has spoken to 50 or more sushi experts (his whole book is about sushi, while it's only a part of one chapter of mine). I use the terms "sushi chefs" and "sushi experts" interchangeably.

All I can tell you is that every sushi expert I spoke to about the hands/chopsticks issue made the point that when serving a customer who eats with chopsticks the rice needs to be packed tighter than ideal. Others made more elaborate arguments about tradition and about the tactile/sensual aspect of eating sushi. None said it was "rude" or "improper" to eat sushi with chopsticks and Morimoto, in his book, even says he thinks chopsticks are more "elegant." But these chefs clearly experience some disappointment when a customer deprives them of the ability to make the best possible sushi. So, again, I think in addition to hands being superior, it's more considerate to use them unless one's duty to one's dining companions (of whom there are usually very few at a sushi bar) overrides that.

I don't have the statistics but my guess is that 99 percent or more of sushi in Japan is not eaten while seated at a traditional sushi bar. It comes from conveyor belts, supermarkets, department stores, fast-food outlets, restaurant serving at tables, home kitchens, etc. A lot of it has rice formed by machines. In those cases, there's no practical or etiquette-based reason to eat it one way or the other. But a genre has to be defined in part by its apex, by the purest expression of that genre. In the case of sushi, that definition comes from what happens in the 1 percent of occurrences: with sushi served at traditional Japanese sushi counters -- a small but defining part of the global sushi culture.

My apologies for the repetition; I think I've now made the point as clearly as I can make it.

[mcohen]

You'd take Steve's word over a Japanese person born and bred in Japan?   

Isn't this a tad bit...

By this logic, you don't think Steve can write an authorative book about Asian dining because he wasn't born and raised in Asia? And, that Trevor Corson shouldn't be allowed to write a book about sushi because he's a gaijin. What about David Thompson and Thai cooking? Or, what about Barbara Tropp and Fuschia Dunlop with regards to Chinese cooking? And, dare I say, what about Julia Child and French cooking?

The culinary world would be much diminished if we placed such restrictions. Sorry, Tyson Cole, you can't cook X cuisine because you weren't born and raised in X country. And, sorry, Julia, you can't write about X cuisine because you weren't born and raised in X country.

[prasantrin]

You'd take Steve's word over a Japanese person born and bred in Japan?   

Isn't this a tad bit...

By this logic, you don't think Steve can write an authorative book about Asian dining because he wasn't born and raised in Asia? And, that Trevor Corson shouldn't be allowed to write a book about sushi because he's a gaijin. What about David Thompson and Thai cooking? Or, what about Barbara Tropp and Fuschia Dunlop with regards to Chinese cooking? And, dare I say, what about Julia Child and French cooking?

Last I checked, Steve's book was about ordering at Asian restaurants in the United States (you can extrapolate to include other countries if you wish, but he's based in the US and most or all of the restaurants he visited were in the US). Much of the discussion in this topic was about how sushi was eaten in Japan. Steve's experience within Japan is (as far as I know) limited. Therefore yes, I do believe Hiroyuki's word is probably more accurate than Steve's.

David Thompson lived in Thailand and has studied Thai cooking extensively. The same can be said about the other authors you mentioned with regards to the countries' cuisines about which they wrote.

So no, I don't believe my comment was "a tad bit..."

Edited August 12, 2008 by prasantrin (log)

[mcohen]

I also mentioned the author Trevor Corson as well, whom you had earlier mocked for his lack of credentials to write a book about sushi. Corson lived in Japan for three years and studied Buddhism; Barbara Tropp lived in Taiwan for two years and studied Chinese poetry. I don't really see a difference where you allow certain authors to write about a foreign cuisine because they lived in that country and studied that cuisine extensively and not Corson? Did Corson not live in Japan and learn to read and write Japanese? Did Corson not study sushi extensively?

[RAHiggins1]

I had to go back to the first page of this thread to remind myself the origin and topic. That being said, this isn't a east vs. west post. Its about how we eat sushi and what is "considered" proper etiquette.

Proper etiquette as it seems to be defined here is to "Do as others are doing". If with friends, feel free to swirl in that whole glob of faux wasabi into your bowl of soju. Swathe thoroughly your california roll in it and give us a big Chairman Kaga grin.

Alternatively, if you are at the Sushi Bar and ordering your sushi as you eat it, pick up with three fingers (pinkie out is optional) your nigiri, lightly roll it over and dap some soju on the protein. Pop it in your mouth and give us the same big Chairman Kaga grin.

Either way it comes down to a matter of choice. I seriously doubt you will offend anyone in any case.

[paulraphael]

The final word!

All questions are definitively answered by this educational video. With subtitles, and remarkable precision:

[markabauman]

This video has been floating around the internet for some time; it's obviously satirical and a bit tongue-in-cheek. Apparently, the two "customers" are a well-known (in Japan) comedy duo. My problem is, I'm not sure what, if any, of the content is for real. For example, they show the custom of pouring a beer between two people, with the pourer saying "O mah, mah, mah" and the receiver of the beer saying "O toh, toh, toh" Is this for real or something they made up? In any case, the video is pretty funny, if not instructional.

[paulraphael]

I suspect if you went to Tokyo and followed any of the advice in the video, the result would be some kind of international incident.

(Except for ordering panda sushi, and eating the salt out of the saucers in the doorway ... I'm pretty sure everyone does that).

[Hiroyuki]

As a native Japanese, I can assure everyone of you here that almost all instructions and suggestions contained in that video are mere jokes.

[Fat Guy]

To me the interesting question is why Japanese people in Japan find the video so funny. My guess is that it must be because so many people in Japan find sushi bars intimidating. In the West, we have the misimpression that everyone in Japan eats at sushi bars all the time. But my understanding is that the overwhelming majority of people in Japan rarely if ever eat in sushi bars. They get their sushi from conveyer-belt places, supermarkets, fast-food sushi chains, etc. So the video is about a subject that, even from a Japanese perspective, is esoteric and shrouded in mystery.

[Hiroyuki]

To me the interesting question is why Japanese people in Japan find the video so funny. My guess is that it must be because so many people in Japan find sushi bars intimidating. In the West, we have the misimpression that everyone in Japan eats at sushi bars all the time. But my understanding is that the overwhelming majority of people in Japan rarely if ever eat in sushi bars. They get their sushi from conveyer-belt places, supermarkets, fast-food sushi chains, etc. So the video is about a subject that, even from a Japanese perspective, is esoteric and shrouded in mystery.

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Your guess is absolutely right. The counter of a sushi shop (sushi ya in Japanese) is almost reserved for tsuu (connosseurs; in other words, sushi snobs ), regulars, and some fearless stupid guys who still don't know the way of the world. The counter is intimidating because of a sushi chef, who is often stubborn, and/or the money involved.

[paulraphael]

So the video is about a subject that, even from a Japanese perspective, is esoteric and shrouded in mystery.

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Interesting. I also wonder if it's going for a general skewering of traditional Japanese customs, and that the sushi bar is a perfect vehicle for this. A young generation mocking the old generation kind of thing.

[nakji]

I had lunch at a kaiten sushi today (in Kawasaki, Japan), and saw a man remove the hotate from his sushi, wallow it in his dish of shoyu, and return it to the rice; whereupon he downed the whole lump in one bite.

Is this the done thing?

[racheld]

. . . it is certainly rare to see a woman past her youthful glory eating nigiri with her hands nowadays, just as it was 20-30 years back.

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Is there a cut-off point, as in when ladies were of an age to "put up their hair," or is it judged by public opinion, and might a lady suddenly find herself in mid-bite, the amazed and pitying looks of her fellow-diners telling her she's a faded bit, and should not be hanging on to the eating habits of youth?

Any glory I might have claimed has faded into the mists of the past, but then, I do not have to worry on this account---I don't care for sushi. But I DO like to go and watch Chris' enjoyment, and HE'S glorious, any day of the week.

Or do certain manners not apply to the male?

[Hiroyuki]

I had lunch at a kaiten sushi today (in Kawasaki, Japan), and saw a man remove the hotate from his sushi, wallow it in his dish of shoyu, and return it to the rice; whereupon he downed the whole lump in one bite.

Is this the done thing?

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In sushi jargon, removing a neta (topping) is called oihagi (highway robbery), which is one of the few things you shouldn't do at the counter of a sushi shop.

[nakji]

In sushi jargon, removing a neta (topping) is called oihagi (highway robbery), which is one of the few things you shouldn't do at the counter of a sushi shop.

Excellent name.

It seemed odd, even to me. I definitely won't be doing that in the future! Although I have been having a hard time perfecting my fish-side-down swipe through the shoyu. It's quite a trick for me.

[Hiroyuki]

In sushi jargon, removing a neta (topping) is called oihagi (highway robbery), which is one of the few things you shouldn't do at the counter of a sushi shop.

Excellent name.

It seemed odd, even to me. I definitely won't be doing that in the future! Although I have been having a hard time perfecting my fish-side-down swipe through the shoyu. It's quite a trick for me.

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I personally don't do this "oihagi" thing at a traditional sushi shop or conveyor sushi restaurant, but at a conveyor sushi restaurant, I wouldn't mind if I saw someone do this because at such a restaurant, the topping is simply placed on the vinegared rice, which is usually shaped with a machine. No manual, artistic handling by a sushi chef is involved there.

[helenjp]

might a lady suddenly find herself in mid-bite,

Let us hope that she has her bifocals off, and can finish her mouthful in blissful ignorance!

Whipping the topping off...a bit like opening up a tea sandwich and rummaging around before battening down the hatch again.

Gosh, if this thread continues much longer, I will start wanting some hand-made sushi!