Szechuan Gourmet - W. 39th St.

[JosephB]

A colleague with pretty reliable taste is urging me to try Szechuan Gourmet on W. 39th Street in Manh. I'm a Grand Sichuan (51st Street) devotee. The original Szechuan Gourmet is in Queens. The Times said some good things about the Manh branch in 1/05. Asimov gave a mixed review of the Queens branch a few years ago. If you've been to Szechuan Gourmet, please give me your thoughts.

Edited July 20, 2005 by JosephB (log)

[docsconz]

I haven't been so I'll keep my thoughts to myself.

[Avumede]

I thought the food was delicious. However, it's not as good as WuLiangYe or Grand Sichuan (or Spicy & Tasty in Queens). In particular, I didn't detect many or any of the Sichuan peppercorns. However, it may be that the dishes I happened to order did not contain any.

If you get a chance, go. It's quite solid.

[JosephB]

I'll be sure to demand the peppercorns. I also understand there may be a special menu for Chinese folks. Thanks, Avumede

[Bond Girl]

Got the $5.95 lunch special from them. My shrimp dish is reeking with so much szechuan peppercorns that made my sinus clear. My opinion: better than grand szechuan but not as good as spicy and tasty.

[Daniel]

Someone has mentioned this restaurant last week. Has anyone been here? I think the standard for most people in Manhattan is Grand Sichuan..

[Sneakeater]

I've been there. It isn't as good as Grand Sichuan. It's still good, though. Definitely worth patronizing.

[Daniel]

Do they use Sichuan Pepper Corns.

[Sneakeater]

This is embarrassing, but I couldn't tell you.

[larrylee]

Daniel, this is around the corner from my office but I've never been. I took a walk over there and according to the faded NYT review out front, they do use sichuan peppercorns. I didn't bother walking in to ask because I've had mixed results asking that question in English at other establishments. However, I may try to go back on Thursday for a look-see.

[H. du Bois]

I get take-out from them about once a week. I have no idea what peppercorns they use! I've never ordered anything but the luncheon specials, so I can't say what the larger picture is, but they've been fine so far.

[Sethro]

Do they use Sichuan Pepper Corns.

←

This strikes me as a really odd question. Is there some peppercorn embargo or scarcity I missed?

[Daniel]

No there isnt an embargo.. I have been to numerous places all over the country that say they make Sichuan Food.. Very few use Sichuan Peppercorns.

[larrylee]

According to the 7/27/05 NYT piece Sichuan's Signature Is Now Legal Again, it was illegal to import Sichuan peppercorns since 1968.

Excerpt from the story:

The Sichuan peppercorn is a case in point. Since 1968 it has been illegal to import this spice, the dried berry of the prickly ash tree, because it might pose a threat to the American citrus industry. The trees can harbor a canker, harmless to humans but contagious among plants and for which there is no known cure. It has not been proven that the dried berries can transmit the disease but it is so devastating that about three years ago the Department began enforcing the ban in earnest.

Despite the ban, Sichuan peppercorns, an essential ingredient in many Sichuan dishes, were still being sold as recently as about a year ago, especially in Chinatowns. Then last year the department approved a treatment to destroy the canker, heating the berries to at least 140 degrees for 20 minutes.

Sichuan peppercorns give you the "ma" or tingly component of the signature Sichuan heat profile. Most "Sichuan" (or most likely "Szechuan") dishes present only the fiery "la" heat, basically what most people generally consider to be spicy/hot.

Once you've experienced it, "ma" is a sensation you will likely never forget. If you like it, you'll be forever sworn off the "Szechuan" fare served in most places.

The general absence of Sichuan peppercorns and the prevalent use of those tiny little red peppers in these so-called "Szechuan" dishes leads me to believe that this is an ingredient generally not seen to be worth the extra effort and expense to obtain and use. It would be like McDonald's using fleur de sel on their fries.

[Sethro]

OK, that's interesting. I would have known it was under constriction, since its been so readilly available for purchase all over the city (consistently for as long as I can remember).

[Dave H]

Just to clarify, the ban on importing Sichuan Peppercorns was lifted in 2005 once it was demonstrated that heating them to 160 deg. (which apparently is done during processing anyways) kills any citrus canker they may harbor. According to wikipedia, the ban was not much enforced until 2002, which may explain why they were easy to find until then.

[raji]

Does Grand Sichuan use them? or is it Grand Szechuan?

[donbert]

Does Grand Sichuan use them? or is it Grand Szechuan?

Grand Sichuan Midtown and St Marks use them, not sure about the others. Wu Liang Ye on 48th also uses them.

[Sneakeater]

Also, just to clarify, based on no more than one or two visits, I would say the Manhattan outpost of Szechuan Gourmet is a step or two down from Grand Sichuan and Wu Liang Ye -- but several steps up from what you'd expect from an unprepossing mid-block place in Midtown. Not quite a destination, as I feel those two places are, but more than worth a try.

[Sethro]

Just to clarify, the ban on importing Sichuan Peppercorns was lifted in 2005 once it was demonstrated that heating them to 160 deg. (which apparently is done during processing anyways) kills any citrus canker they may harbor.  According to wikipedia, the ban was not much enforced until 2002, which may explain why they were easy to find until then.

←

My point is that they've were available as ever between 2002 and 2005 as well. I don't even think they cost more. Strange.

[raji]

Does Grand Sichuan use them? or is it Grand Szechuan?

Grand Sichuan Midtown and St Marks use them, not sure about the others. Wu Liang Ye on 48th also uses them.

←

And Chelsea too, right? I consider all 3 the same owner, menu, etc.

[tommy]

Just to clarify, the ban on importing Sichuan Peppercorns was lifted in 2005 once it was demonstrated that heating them to 160 deg. (which apparently is done during processing anyways) kills any citrus canker they may harbor.  According to wikipedia, the ban was not much enforced until 2002, which may explain why they were easy to find until then.

←

My point is that they've were available as ever between 2002 and 2005 as well. I don't even think they cost more. Strange.

←

i suppose that depends where you live or where you "sourced" them from or some other factors. many people had a hard time getting them, and restaurants stopped using them for a time.

[banquo]

Grand Sichuan Eastern uses them as well.

Around 2003 (the year I arrived in NYC), you could find sichuan peppercorns, but they were not of good quality and they (at least the ones I managed to locate) were always in unmarked bags. Nowadays, the quality is far better and the packaging is as you would find with any other spice. I just picked up a couple of packages from the large Chinese grocer on Elizabeth. They are a good source.

I can't imagine good Sichuan food without them, so in that sense it's not like McDonald's french fries and fleur de sel. I suspect most places don't use them either because some people tend to freak out at the numbing sensation or else the restaurants are too lazy ( or cheap). It's analogous to most Thai restaurants and their failure to use Kaffir lime leaves.

[Daniel]

I went by there the other day and picked up dinner.. The place is very unassuming.. The food was well packed and the staff friendly..

This is what I picked up.. For cold we went Spicy Szechuan Noodles, wonton in hot oil, spinach in ginger sauce, conch in spicy sauce,shredded chicken with fancy sauce...

For main we had twice cooked pork, beef chen-du style and some other dish..

We ordered a ton of things because Chinese Food in most cases is awesome the next day.. Especially Sichuan cold dishes.. The heat only increases with time..

I must say, all dishes were good.. To me, it was a far second to Grand Sichuan.. There was not one version I liked more then Grand Sichuan.. The place would be a star in most places outside of New York City. If I lived in the delivery area I would certainly order from there. But the place wasnt amazing.. The spice level was pretty good and they definitely use Sichuan Peppercorns..

It could be personal preference, could be

[Sneakeater]

For the little it's worth, I completely agree with your assessment.

Edited October 9, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)