The State of French Dining

[robert brown]

I just came across this commentary in this weekend's Financial Times by its restaurant critic Nicholas Lander. It reiterates the disheartenment that I have been posting the last few months, though with a different and less of a broader indictment. (Included is a passing reference to Italy that is also in accord with my feelings.) Regardless, I am more interested in what your reactions are to the article.

If you have trouble with the address below, got to FT.com and in the search box (I used the one that appeared after I clicked on the "Culture and Sports" link and then the Jancis Robinson article) type in "Nicholas Lander". I don't know how long the FT will keep the story available for free, so better hurray.

http://search.ft.com/search/article.html?i...arch&state=Form

[Bux]

I thought it a strange article. After bringing up the fast food and slow food business and then criticising the foreign food in France, his main point seems to be that he ate well in France and found the food good value, but hated the service.

Over this summer I have had the good fortune to eat at acouple of two-star Michelin restaurants and several one-star establishments. The food was invariably good, the equally important factor - the price/ quality ratio, invariably impressive. What was unforgettable and unforgivable was the attitude of so many staff.

He lost me a bit in the beginning when he said his initial enthusiasm dates back 25 years and then complained about the ubiquity of non French fast food, naming couscous. My enthusiasm for French food predates his, but couscous seemed almost typically French by the early sixties, at least in Paris and the south.

In June we ate at some local places without stars and mostly in the company of friends and regulars at the restaurants in question, but in April we ate in some restaurants that ranged from no stars to three stars and noticed a few service errors at the multistarred places, but not enough for me to damn the genre. The wine service at one place will not likely be forgotten, although it's the lack of an apology that lessened my appreciation for the restaurant more than the service error. Still the food may get me back. He may be correct, but he needs to make a better case.

I have long deplored the practice of listing prices only on the host's menu and find the assumption that the man is the host to be offensive, but this is a traditional practice and can't be used to show where France is going wrong. Not infrequently, I have had waiters in France, ask who will be tasting the wine when I dine with my wife, in spite of the fact that I always order the wine. I've wondered if they are bending over backwards to be modern, or if they've just noticed that we've consulted and discussed the wine together. There's no question that I don't see the service I saw in the late sixties, when a team might arrive at our table with the youngest members doing nothing but observing. I suspect the unpaid apprenticeships for servers are all but a thing of the past and the 35 hour week and minimum wage will see to it that servers are paid a living wage and that service will be streamlined.

I don't know, I think there may a case to be made about the decline of dining pleasures in France, but France has never been only multistarred restaurants and that may be where the decline is greatest and where the revival is being felt the most. So there are dichotomies on all levels. Much of my philosophy of life is based on advice I read in a book or article about Sterling Moss. Always keep one eye on the escape route in tight situations. I'm prepared to spend more time in Spain.

I should reread the article in the morning. I'm actually surprised I found such fault with it. Maybe I'll change my mind in the morning.

[robert brown]

Bux, what do you mean by ....where the revival is being felt the most?" I don't mean to sound like a broken record (these days I guess you say a skipping CD), but declining service is almost the least of it. Lander has always been a yeoman in terms of writing ability, with this piece not really tightly constructed in terms of logical flow. My wife and I were wondering why restaurants, especially more modesf, regional, local,etc. ones, don't offer a wider range of dishes especially when you see books that are chock full of recipes that are highly specific in terms of place. Whether it is tourism, which is the reason for the rap Steve P. gave about lack of diversity in Piemonte restaurants (something I don't completely agree with) when we were driving to the Union Square market recently, or a reluctance to offer uncommon dishes to clients, being able to taste a wider range of dishes would make France a more interesting country to dine in.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I think he is making the classic argument against the French which is, they have relied on the superiority of their "brands" for so long, and their reputation, that their advantage over the rest of the world has deteriorated. People are making as good or better products, and capable chefs abound everywhere. But while he chastiises them for their malaise, he doesn't ever explain why it has taken hold which is where the interesting discussion lies.

[Fat Guy]

I think we can all agree that the article fails the basic test of "did he make the argument well?" Pull a loose thread here and there and the whole thing unravels. But he makes a few good points nonetheless, basically along the lines of Plotnicki's summary.

[Tonyfinch]

Could it be that he's experiencing the mid life French food crisis? Many of us fondly remember the discovery of France and French food back in our student days-the pleasures of discovering out of the way little restaurants, the picnics of cheese,wine,pate bread, the wonderful food shops etc.etc. Many of us first developed our "food awareness" this way.

Now 25 years and endless trips to France and tons of Michelin starred meals later, it just doesn't do it for him anymore the way it used to. It's not that the food or wine or service is any better or worse than it's ever been. It's that try as he might he can't rediscover that youthful first flush, that wow factor, that intensity of pleasure that he once had. He admits he enjoyed the food. He's picky about the service but he can't find any real fault. It just doesn't feel the same.

My advice to him: give France a miss for a while. In this case absence may well make the heart grow fonder.

[Fat Guy]

Tony, I've long suspected that such a midlife crisis is partially responsible for many of the decline-of-French-cuisine comments on this site, as well as in the media at large. But I place the emphasis on "partially" because I think the midlife crisis is more of a multiplier than the actual cause. There's also a question of personal conservatism. For example you'll note that Brown's theory of French culinary decline is based on the definitiveness of reference points from the past, whereas the Lander indictment is based on lack of progress. I see that as a major difference in attitude between the two schools of thought. I fall firmly into the Lander camp, even though I wouldn't put this particular essay forward as a good statement of the argument.

[Steve Klc]

Good point Shaw. This Lander piece wasn't anywhere near as persuasively argued as Brown and Plotnicki and others have argued their similar concerns here on eGullet. It's full of distraction and nary an original or in-depth thought. You want to talk about lack of progress, fine--why muddle in supposed service flaws as if it were endemic? Prove it--prove regional specialties and artisanship are in decline as you eat around the provinces, prove the spirit and freedoms of an Adria, Pascal Barbot, Gagnaire, Pierre Herme, Philippe Conticini are not taking more hold--even subtly--among the next generation of French chefs, prove that savvy diners are increasingly unable to find interesting low to mid-priced meals around Paris that aren't rote, aren't composed of frozen and commercial ingredients. Prove that the "traditionalists" are not still putting out perfect examples of their form--whatever form--Poilane bread, the salted caramels of Henri Le Roux or the chocolates of Jean-Paul Hevin, etc.

Lauder hasn't demonstrated to me he is going to the right places to ward off a jaded palate--be it weekend market, restaurant, bistro, charcuterie, patisserie, etc. Nor that he ever appreciated the things, which he now bemoans, for the right reasons to begin with. The difference with Brown and Plotnicki is I "feel" for their perceived loss, I feel for their uncertainty, in short, I care. Lander neither convinces coherently nor makes me care.

"Eating out in France is no longer as exciting as it once was." Duh, where's he been? France has been conservative, sexist, insular, protective and chauvinistic for how many decades now? The advantage has deteriorated as Plotnicki has pointed out but again, this is not news. In fact, I would have thought even for the FT this would be seen as behind the arc. How much of the decline is perception versus reality, why has it declined, and will it ever rebound into something so compellingly and recognizably French are the real questions here. Where's the indictment of the French media, presumably complicit in this perceived malaise, or French diners themselves?

"I would put forward another argument. The French restaurant industry is finding life tough simply because it has failed to adapt to a changing world, to meet its customers' new and more exacting demands." Again, like this is news? And what are these new and more exacting demands and who are these customers?

And shouldn't Lauder mention palate or speak of a decline of interest on the plate in order to make his case? I guess not, not when blanket indictments of service issues are so obvious to him.

[Kerouac1964]

It's easy to discuss problems. But I often find writers neglecting to offer possible solutions to the problems.

I did learn a bit about fine dining. Being a total novice (awaiting many future pleasures - I hope!!) I did not know that menus given to women in France had no prices.

Could anybody explain the proper manners for when the Head Wine dude comes to the table to display the selected wine for testing??

Thanks in advance!

Mike

[Bux]

Mike, just remember that not wall you see is true, or at least not as obvious as it may appear. What you read, should always be suspect. I've seen too much erroneous information cited as fact in the NY Times by a someone without the experience to know the history behind his/her subject. I'm not saying this is the case here, but take everything you read with a grain of salt. That includes my posts.

When they "display the selected wine for testing," you're to check that it's actually the bottle you ordered. You should check the year, and any other information on the wine list against what's on the label. That might include, the appellation, the vineyard, the grower or winemaker, etc. In some areas it might include the name of the grape and other bits of information. The more you know about wine, and the one you ordered, the quicker it is to see that it's the correct one.

When it comes time to taste the wine, you should be checking to see that it's a sound wine. No one is particularly interested in knowing if you personally like the wine or not, unless the sommelier has urged you to select a strange wine. I could not begin to describe how you tell if the wine is sound and truthfully, there are a hell of a lot of times I may not be absolutely sure based on a first taste as it comes out of the bottle. The single most common fault is what's known as a "corked" wine. You can smell the cork, but I think few experts do, as it's not a reliable indication. In my opinion a customer should never get a corked wine to taste and a really fine restaurant will have a wine waiter taste the wine to make sure it's sound. Few restaurants do that, although I've seen it done and respect the restaurant for that. More often it's down only when a diner orders older and more expensive wines.

[Bux]

What Klc, Shaw, Finch, Plotniki, Brown, Barnum, Menken and Marx said, and I mean Groucho. If I find the food conservative, I'm going to complain that it's changing. If I like change, I'm going to complain that it's not keeping up with the times. Klc seems to echo my earlier point that the glory that is, or was, French food is not all two star restaurants. Are the eclairs of provincial patisseries no longer delightful. If not, do they pale in comparison to what you can get in London or just in comparison to Herme in Paris? We skipped lunch on a day with dreary weather, this past spring. For a moment I wished I was home atching TV rather than driving in the intermittent rain wondering if the next sight was worth getting soaked to see. In a one horse, two patisserie (competition is good) town, I hopped out of the car and picked up a bag of goodies including an eclair au cafe. It's been years since I've bought, or wanted, that sort of comfort food, but it worked wonders on my mood. Trust me, the carb hit was good, but two teaspoons of sugar would not have had the same effect. Taking pastry as an example, the good old stuff can still be found if you look, but it may also be overshadowed by the work of some of the new creative pastry chefs. The question that remains is whether there's also more banal pastry around or have we become jaded and only able to appreciate the better stuff. Pastry is a good example in another way too. I would join in decrying the homogenization of food in France, as I have done on this board, but if you travel slowly and select your shops carefully, the regional changes in pastry alone can make a tour in France a rich gastronomic experience. What may be most true is that we have to do a bit of homework and be smart as well as careful traveling in France. We've changed, France has changed and we can no longer take it for granted that we can fall out of our cars and be stunned by what we eat. Now let's compare patisseries in Ohio, the north of England and the Aveyron.

[marcus]

Kerouac1964, My wife refuses to accept a carte without prices. She asks for the menu provided for men, and explains that she finds getting a menu without prices to be insulting, and although I'm sure that she doesn't win friends this way, she always gets it. She has done this tens of times in 2 and 3 star restaurants, and the only argument she ever got was 5-10 years ago at a mediocre 2 star restaurant in the southern Netherlands, and this was from the female owner.

I think that we are way overdoing what seems to be becoming received wisdom regarding the decline of quality in restaurants in France. We may not be at an apex, but overall France continues to tower over the rest of the world. I love the restaurants of Taipei and Bangkok, but I don't think that they are quite comparable. England is a joke, a mass of horrible places with a thin veneer of overpriced and overrated restaurants in London. Italy has many very fine regional restaurants, but I have never had a great meal at any of the nuovo cucina restaurants that get the stars from Aimo and Nadia in Milan to Enoteca Pinchiorri in Florence to the 3 star Dal Pescatore in the hinterlands of Lombardy. One of only two 3 star restaurants in Italy, it had the finest service I have ever experienced anywhere, but the food was distinctly unmemorable. I have the very highest regard for Arzak, but this restaurant has been around forever, and the Spanish Basque area has always been an extension of the French cooking region. I am willing to concede that Catalonia may be the up and coming region, and I'm planning to do my own tour next year, but no matter how good it is, it is still only a very small area compared to France overall. This brings me to New York. If New York and Paris were merged, I can't imagine that I would ever get to the point where I would go to one of the New York originated restaurants, and if I did it would likely be Chinese. Perhaps if I were looking for a seafood specialist, I might go to Le Bernardin, but this is a purely French restaurant anyhow. Daniel and Jean Georges would not make it into the top 10. Is there any bistro in New York that compares to La Regalade, or Benoit, or L'Ami Louis. I'm even giving you targets to shoot at. So, as some bemoan the decline of French leadership, I think that we need to maintain some perspective.

[John Whiting]

So far as regional food at the sub-Michelin-star level is concerned, the Logis association of hotels strongly encourages -- I think even requires -- that its members' kitchens include a Menu du Terroir. It's not uniformly successful of course, but I've eaten very well, very interestingly and very reasonably on a number of occasions by ordering it. In fact, in an unfamiliar area without a guide book, and wanting a satisfying unextravagent meal, I'd happily stop at the first Logis hotel I came to and order the terroir menu.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I think that Lander's article, poorly crafted and argued as it may be, hits one overall theme which is that France gastronomy seems to be standing still when compared to the pace of change everywhere else. The detrioration is simply put, and I think my dinner experience of last night (I'm in Paris as I write this,) shows this point best. I was eating at an old line bistro (which I will write up later today) and having a heck of a good meal. After dinner the owner came to chat with me about wine and he asked me how dinner was. I told him that the haricots vert were delicious with an abundance of flavor. I asked him if they were special in any way. He said they come from Kenya. "Kenya?" I asked. He shrugged his shoulders and said, "that's the business these days."

I think this pretty much sums up the French dilemma. Smart investors in other places are growing world class ingredients. And not only are they being delivered to other countires aside from France, which means that France doesn't have a foothold on "deliciousness" anymore, the bar has been raised for growers in France. Combine that with the fact that the children of people in agricultural businesses often opt for a more modern and urban lifestyle then hairoct vert grower, you can see from where the crisis stems.

We in the U.S., and in the U.K. and in other countries where tradition and governmental interference damaged the quality of our food, are now in the second generation of people who are trying to revive our artisinal food industries. France is still on their downward cycle. And I'm not sure that they will start to push the ball back up the hill, before it falls to the bottom.

[Tonyfinch]

France gastronomy seems to be standing still when compared to the pace of  change everywhere else.

I think that's true and one of the reasons is that nowhere else is nearly as Michelin driven as France.

The power of Michelin in France is not a liberating factor for restaurants or for French gastronomy. The need to satisfy Michelin requirements mitigates against risk taking and experimentation for fear of falling out of favour with what has always been an ultra reactionary guide.

In order to truly develop restaurants have to start doing what Tuscan winemakers do- classify your product as Vino di Tavola and to hell with the old DOCG rules. Michelin would be forced to change or be rendered irrelevant.

In the UK Nico Ladenis and Marco Pierre White both "handed back" their 3 stars on the grounds that the criteria required to maintain them were "no longer relevant to the needs of the modern diner".

Whatever their motives,their action was greeted with shock and horror in France-"hand back Michelin stars? My God....!"

The definition of what constitutes a good restaurant is actually far narrower in France than in many other places. Of course there are still lots of terrific restaurants there but it's not so much the ingredients as the attitudes that have stagnated,and combine that with the jaded attitudes of customers and you do have a real recipe for decline.

[AdamLawrence]

In order to truly develop restaurants have to start doing what Tuscan winemakers do- classify your product as Vino di Tavola and to hell with the old DOCG rules. Michelin would be forced to change or be rendered irrelevant.

In the UK Nico Ladenis and Marco Pierre White both "handed back" their 3 stars on the grounds that the criteria required to maintain them were "no longer relevant to the needs of the modern diner".

recipe for decline.

While that's true, Tony, do you think it's really that good an argument? Both those chefs handed back their stars because they wanted to stop cooking themselves, and build restaurant empires to make more money. Can you really say that the restaurant scene has been improved by these decisions?

Adam

[Bux]

Tony, I think Michelin is merely a symptom and not the problem. Any society that the dominates a field so well and for so long is going to develop a conservative mentality and establishment, of which Michelin is only a part.

I also question whether Nico Ladenis and Marco Pierre White handed in their stars quite for the reason they stated or for the good publicty of the stunt as well as getting Michelin off their backs while they were at the top so they could rest on their laurels.

[robert brown]

Can any of the Brits recall the article on the decline of French gastronomy in an unnamed national newspaper that Lander refers to in his article?

[Bux]

France is still on their downward cycle. And I'm not sure that they will start to push the ball back up the hill, before it falls to the bottom.

Sometimes it's hard for me to decide to defend or attack France. It may depend on my mood, but that mood is often influenced for months after my last trip. I'm not sure France is still on their downward cycle, and I have seen many attempts to push the ball up the hill. These range from the modest restaurants and neo bistros of the 90's of which la Regalade, whose chef is competent enough to run a multi starred restaurant to the growth of fine wine production in the Languedoc to the start up artisanal producers in many areas. To be sure there are and will be areas where food is still deteriorating, but it hasn't been all positive in NYC for the past twenty years.

By the way, I'm always opitimistic before leaving for France and of a mixed mind upon my return. I'm off for France in a month. Let me know about Parisian bistros. I think we will take a three star meal and four or five less lofty ones. I want to return to l'Astrance as well.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I'm not sure France is still on their downward cycle, and I have seen many attempts to push the ball up the hill. These range from the modest restaurants and neo bistros of the 90's of which la Regalade, whose chef is competent enough to run a multi starr

Bux - Your proffer actually makes the case for the decline. Why else would a chef who is competent enough to run a multi-star be operating a pint sized bistro on the outskirts of Paris? That chioce was made only after the decline started.

My lunch today is a perfect example of what is wrong with gastronomy over here. We decided to have lunch at L'Affriolle on rue Malar. I had read so many good things about it over the years (never having been there) and we just happened to be walking by so we stopped for lunch. It was nice enough. I had a Creameaux of Haricots de Tarbois avec Foie Gois (cream of white bean soup with a thin sliver of foie on top) and Thon Polee avec Grains du Sesame et Courgette and Aubergine (cylinders of tuna in a sesame crust.) Madame P. had the Gaspacho avec Crabbe and the Rouget Poelle avec Lard (red mullet sauteed with bacon). It was all fine enough, and good value for a set meal at 30 euros for both courses and dessert (blanc manger avec vanille et pistache for me and sable avec fraises for Madame.) But midway through the main course my wife gave it the kisss of death, "there's no reason to come back here." Here is one of the well regarded modern bistros. In every local guidebook there is a heart, meaning they love the place, listed next to the entry. And they are stuck in an environment that serves possibly 30 covers at each meal and in a 30 euro menu. No other city in the world is stuck with that type of dining environment or price point. I think when you are serving 30 euro menus, there is only so much you can do.

[marcus]

L'Affriole only gets a 12 from Gault Millau which is quite a low score, even for a bistro. I think that if a restaurant as good as you describe receives this middling rating, then it speaks strongly to the overall depth and strength of the restaurants in Paris.

[Bux]

Bux - Your proffer actually makes the case for the decline. Why else would a chef who is competent enough to run a multi-star be operating a pint sized bistro on the outskirts of Paris? That chioce was made only after the decline started.

I make no argument about the fact there has been a decline. The decline started well before Yves Camdeborde opened la Regalade. My point was that la Regalade was part of the upturn. You may not see a no star bistro as important enough to be part of an upturn, but in my view the starred places were mostly in good shape, it was the bottom, and more importantly, the middle that had fallen out.

My lunch today is a perfect example of what is wrong with gastronomy over here. ... Here is one of the well regarded modern bistros. In every local guidebook there is a heart, meaning they love the place, listed next to the entry. And they are stuck in an environment that serves possibly 30 covers at each meal and in a 30 euro menu. No other city in the world is stuck with that type of dining environment or price point. I think when you are serving 30 euro menus, there is only so much you can do.

Here is where we absolutely part company. Add fifteen dollars for an acceptable (to me, if not you) half bottle of wine and you have lunch for under $45 with tax and service. In NYC you will eat better but only if you spend twice that. You don't have to come back to that sort of place, but as long as it exists, the average Parisian can still understand what I basic meal means. Here in NYC, it means steam table take out back to the office for lunch. This is one example of where Paris has NYC beat by a mile--the three course 30 euro lunch. I might prefer Barcelona, however.

I think you're looking at this from the point of view of Paris as a gastronomic destination, but it's important to have that lower level in my mind, because it's at that level that I first came to enjoy French food. If it's not there, there will be fewer introductions and future generations lost. I think this is very much part of Tony's earlier post.

[Bux]

Maybe I just need to understand why L'Affriolle proves the decline after your Chez Georges post.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Because L'Affriole should have been as good as Chez Georges. If anything it should have been better. The cost of my meal at Ches Georges aside from the wine was 43 Euros and 26 were dedicated to the lamb chops. The Chez Georges meal was a good 30%-40% more enjoyable then the L'Affriole meal. I guess the point here isn't that 30 euros is a bad buy for lunch for that quality, it's that the type of cooking you and I would call interesting can't be had for 30 euros and the chefs are pinned in by the price point. I am certain that the chef at Affriole could do much better at a 50 euro price point. I should add that they had a 2000 La Vielle Juliene Chanteauneuf-du-Pape at L'Affriole for 42 euros. Not such a bad price for a wine of that caliber. It was young, but the wine is a great "normale" bottling for a CNdP,

[Wilfrid]

No other city in the world is stuck with that type of dining environment or price point.

Hyperbole

But I am reading all this with great interest, not least because my need for a trip to either France or Spain is becoming desperate. I had to look it up, but I see 1 Euro is 1 dollar today (give or take some small change). So $30 for three courses is indeed cheap. I am interested in the notion that the chef might do better with a $50 set meal.

I think that for my less extravagant meals on a Paris trip I would choose to eat at quite different places from Mr P. I would be looking for more traditional French bistro food rather than, necessarily, inventive cooking. *Would you all say that the traditional repertoire, at modest prices, has seen a significant decline too?

*In fact, I was fantasizing last night about basing an eating tour around some of the places in this book, (although one or two I have been to before have been hugely disappointing).