Paris

[fishskis]

I am going to paris in October, and I am interested in going to Senderens or Hiramatsu for dinner ; I may go to both, but there is a chance I will choose between them. Does anybody have any recommendations or preferences between the two?

Also, I am considering Le Grand Vefour for lunch (though, in general, I tend to prefer more contemporary, less formal atmosphere); does anybody have any recent experience with their 75 Euro prix fixe lunch? Is it great? Is it several courses, or more limited (amuse, entree, main, dessert)?.....I am choosing between LGV for lunch, where I have never been, or L'Astrance, which I love, but where I have been a couple of times before.

Thank you.

[Bu Pun Su]

I have never been to Hiramatsu, so I could not comment much - I think it's more formal than Senderens. Senderens - it's an informal place with relaxing atmosphere, personally, I think the 2-star given by Michelin is not justified. Only the dessert is still very good, the food is only so so - the ingredients were not top notch or very fresh when I ate there. Just curious, why do you consider these 2 places?

Le Grand Vefour - though I've never been there, I heard from many that the lunch is a "steal" there - but I doubt the signature dish would be offered as part of the lunch tasting menu. Along with Ledoyen and L'Ambroisie, this place is uniquely "Parisian or French style" especially the setting and ambiance. It should be a decent choice (do look at Ledoyen as well if you get the chance). Good luck and look forward to your report

[John Talbott]

I have never been to Hiramatsu, so I could not comment much - I think it's more formal than Senderens. Senderens - it's an informal place with relaxing atmosphere, personally, I think the 2-star given by Michelin is not justified. Only the dessert is still very good, the food is only so so - the ingredients were not top notch or very fresh when I ate there. Just curious, why do you consider these 2 places?

Le Grand Vefour - though I've never been there, I heard from many that the lunch is a "steal" there - but I doubt the signature dish would be offered as part of the lunch tasting menu. Along with Ledoyen and L'Ambroisie, this place is uniquely "Parisian or French style" especially the setting and ambiance. It should be a decent choice (do look at Ledoyen as well if you get the chance). Good luck and look forward to your report

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I cannot comment on Hiramatsu but Bu Pun Su is correct, Senderens since the changeover is no longer an elegant two-star, but Grand Vefour is a class act at a price at least for lunch that most consider "a steal".

[pirate]

I don't wish to offer advice but to simply state my current opinion. I've eaten at all three.

Hiramatsu: Very comfortable; elegant in fact. Tables well-spaced and not many of them. Food carefully prepared and definitely Michelin one star. I liked it but I would not hasten to return.

Senderens: It is a scene restaurant. After a second visit exposed to its current "industrial gourmet" cooking I would never return

Le Grand Vefour: Not a comfortable restaurant. Food is good but not up to Michelin three star standards. One can do much better at, for example, Le Meurice. I have no desire to return.

[ameiden]

Yes, do go to Grand Vefour if you have the chance to. This is one of the most traditional, most authentic dining rooms in town. The set lunch is a steal, same as the one at Taillevent for the same price. It was three courses the last time I went and the dishes were more simply prepared than the more elaborate a la carte choices. I second the advice to go to Ledoyen. This in my view would be an even better lunch although also significantly more expensive.

[John Talbott]

One can do much better at, for example, Le Meurice.

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Pirate has raised a good question; why are you limiting the choices to Hiramatsu, Senderens + Grand Vefour?

[fishskis]

One can do much better at, for example, Le Meurice.

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Pirate has raised a good question; why are you limiting the choices to Hiramatsu, Senderens + Grand Vefour?

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Thank you for the replies.

Good question. I have already booked a few other spots, including; Guy Savoy and hopefully L'Astrance. For some reason, I put Senderens and Hiramatsu (and Atelier Robuchon, but I've been there) in a comparable category in my head - modern cuisine in a more relaxed setting than a formal three-star (whether this is accurate or not, I do not know). I've learned from the past that I prefer to mix up my dining experiences among three-stars, one-stars, bistros, and leaving meals open to see what is discovered or just to do something quick and easy. I've already filled my "three-star" slots and my reserved "bistro" slot (Aux Lyonnais), so I'm looking for one (possibly two) "in-betweens".

Regarding Le Grand Vefour, so many people rave about their 75 euro lunch, but it seems too, that many people say it is nothing special. And as pirate said, many (seemingly knowledgable) people recommend Le Meurice over LGV in a heartbeat. But the history of LGV is compelling - it just seems like I should try it. But given that I have had mind altering 90 euro lunches at Pierre Gagnaire, it just seems like LGV might disappoint.

I am definitely not limited to these two choices, and if there are recommendations in the one or two-star range, preferably with modern, or "cutting edge" cuisine, I welcome the suggestions.

[Chocolate & Zucchini]

I was sourly disappointed by my lunch at Le Grand Véfour last spring. The service was sketchy, the food was average -- not *at all* three-star food -- and the tables so close to one another the atmosphere felt stuffy. I might go back and try the dinner service if I get the opportunity, but from my one experience, it seems they're not putting in a lot of effort at lunchtime.

As far as luxurious lunch menus go, I enjoyed Les Ambassadeurs and Le Bristol much, much more. (Le Meurice did not impress me either.)

Clotilde.

[eljo]

As far as luxurious lunch menus go, I enjoyed Les Ambassadeurs and Le Bristol much, much more. (Le Meurice did not impress me either.)

Did you have the set lunch menu or a la carte at Le Bristol? The menu looks nice, but limited. I am considering Le Bristol or Le Cinq for a Sunday birthday lunch but want to stick to the set menu, if possible. Will I feel left out?

Any thoughts on Le Cinq vs. Le Bristol for lunch?

[pierre45]

As far as luxurious lunch menus go, I enjoyed Les Ambassadeurs and Le Bristol much, much more. (Le Meurice did not impress me either.)

Did you have the set lunch menu or a la carte at Le Bristol? The menu looks nice, but limited. I am considering Le Bristol or Le Cinq for a Sunday birthday lunch but want to stick to the set menu, if possible. Will I feel left out?

Any thoughts on Le Cinq vs. Le Bristol for lunch?

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DEfinitely Le Bristol.I had lunch there a year ago.VEry good value and the setting outdoors is unmatched .You can order a la carte.I don't understand the interest about le cinq with the many negative feedbacks.

[julot-les-pinceaux]

The art of Alain Senderens requires flawless execution. In my opinion and experience, this is what chef Robert used to deliver in the last two years of Lucas-Carton and the first year at Senderens, making it a highly memorable and valuable experience.

As far as the following years are concerned, I can only agree on opinions expressed here that the quality of the food was not interesting anymore.

But , based on my recent visits, something is fixed in the kitchen. The new chef, coming from l'Ambroisie, may have had a hard time adapting to the number of tables and to the subtle Senderens style, but the cooking is now back on track.

So Senderens' genius can be enjoyed again, and I think we food lovers can carefully resume going at Senderens -- still make it clear that your expectations are high and send back bad dishes.

They also say that they are gonna do reintroduce a few Lucas-Carton dishes.

A feature of the Senderens restaurant that does not work anymore, in my opinion, is the quality of the wines that are served for the proposed wine pairing. While you can do great cooking with less expensive ingredients, I believe nothing replaces great wines, and I would suggest to skip most of the wine pairings proposed. Meanwhile, the wine list is still that of Lucas-Carton, with more reasonable margins. So you do not have to drink water either (though there is nothing wrong with that).

Visit my blog for a more detailed review: http://julotlespinceaux.blogspot.com/2007/...and-erotic.html.

Edited September 17, 2007 by julot-les-pinceaux (log)

[cachan]

Regarding Le Grand Vefour, so many people rave about their 75 euro lunch, but it seems too, that many people say it is nothing special. And as pirate said, many (seemingly knowledgable) people recommend Le Meurice over LGV in a heartbeat. But the history of LGV is compelling - it just seems like I should try it. But given that I have had mind altering 90 euro lunches at Pierre Gagnaire, it just seems like LGV might disappoint.

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LGV is now 88 for lunch, I booked weeks ago for tomorrow, now regretting I didn't go for Gagnaire instead.

[TarteTatin]

We were there (Grand Vefour) on November 6, I wasn't that impressed.

Review to come soon.

[TarteTatin]

La Grand Vefour.

Yes, the history and the room are exquisite. The tables are, as said before, too close together. There are too many waiters and not enough space, they keep bumping into each other. The Sommelier scowled when I asked to look at the Carte de vin first. He also scowled when I ordered. He then proceeded to show the wine and give the tasting to my husband after I ordered. I didn't say anything. He was very old school. Granted, my menu didn't have the 88euro price on it for lunch-only the man's has it. So, they are trying to be old school still. However, the kitchen is very contemporary, as are some of the younger waiters. So? How to make the two mix?

We ordered 2 glasses of Taillevant, not knowing it was 22euros per glass. Oh, well. Still good.

The Amuse was cep soup cold and mustard and veal mousse with a -mustard blossom.

I had Tourteau sucrine with green gelee and yellow squash. Wish we had taken pictures. Very pretty. The consistency of the crab with the bits of hard squash really worked.

He had Presse de foie gras mousse de potiron... interesting texture. Dried black mushroom granules sprinkled on the side. Very interesting. I liked it. They looked like miniature black mustard seeds.

We had a half bottle of Saint Joseph blanc 05 33 euros.

Then, with lunch, we had a Crozes Hermitage 01 Rubin, delicious.

Sam had Tete au veau, round, pretty, with a perfect little quail egg, how did they stuff it with a perfect yolk and I guess inject it with parsley? Delicious. Side salad of Frisee with tarragon - persil ball that popped when cut, and also little bits of fried beetroot chips. There was a huge serving of brains next to the tete au veau.

I had a Pork chop with sweet potato and walnut? Served with teeny gorgeous beets-lovely- with carrots and purslane and beet molecule like a grape, but it erupted with beet.

I ordered 6 cheeses, Sam five. Huge cheese cart. I know I had a soft goat similar to epoisses, a very old compte-ohhh! great..., savoie (that’s where the chef is from) bleu de petit basque, Livarot, tomme. Sam had a Beaufort...the cheese waiter wasn't very patient either. (As a matter of fact, the wait staff in general seemed too rushed, or impatient, or something)

The amuse dessert was ananas with coriander and coconut milk.

Sam had some amazing gorgeous chocolate fondant for dessert, I had mandarin pieces and other things served in a glass that wasn’t a glass, it was edible. They were both soooo pretty!

Sommelier (who still hated me, and his crossed eye got even more crossed when he looked at me), served mas Amiel grenache noir from Roullsillon- similar to Banyuls family-for Sam’s dessert 10 euros-tasty, and a Sauternes for mine 24euros. Sam had asked for "medium" priced -to go with our desserts; I rather think 24 euros is high...

Then mignardises.

Then marshmallows-pink, or chocolate and white, and a slice of gateau de Savoie.

Then chocolates. One with almond. One with spice. One with cardomon. Take as many as you like.

By the time you get this far, you can’t remember anything because you’re either too drunk or too sugar shocked. I think there were other offerings of little bites of things.

I really think that they should lower the dejeuner from 88 euros back to 75 euros and offer less desserts. The pastry chef was incredible, but needn't have shown off to that extreme, as the body can only handle so much food. Three courses, including a dessert, and a cheese course, and then followed by a million other sweet delights---is overkill. You can't remember anything (not only from too much alcohol, but the taste buds are gone!)

It's not just at this restaurant. It's like this at all the 3 stars we've eaten at.

Maybe not quite to this extreme. But, I do remember the most recent-at La Tour D'argent (no longer a 3 star), last April served numerous desserts that were simply,

"just one more little mint, monsieur?".

Just my humble opinion.

Sam had a wonderful time and, besides being a bit rushed out, enjoyed everything immensely.

(We sat down at 1:00 and left at 3:40, the last ones there)

[julot-les-pinceaux]

That really does not sound exciting and you do not sound excited either-- Not a surprise actually, as the three stars of LGV is one of the deepest mysteries of Paris.