Loie

[Holly Moore]

An acquaintance stopped me at La Colombe this morning asking if I had ever heard of a restaurant the did not give its customers the loose change when settling the bill.

I hadn't and asked her where, "Loie."

Having written a restaurant column for a number of years I knew such issues were often a result of miscommunication rather than a restaurant's stupidity. Fortunately Loie is next door to La Columbe and was just opening for brunch. I poked my head in and asked.

The lone server on the floor responded that there are no dimes, nickels or pennies in their register drawer. At the server's or someone else's option, the bills are rounded up or down. After all, the server shrugged, "It's only like eight cents."

With all these new drinks that must be remembered, I can see keeping things simple for the bartender, who is usually the one making change for guest checks. And no pennies, dimes and nickels makes cashing out much easier. So fine with the change - as long as the restaurant only rounds up.

Back to my acquaintance - evidently they rounded down for her. She asked for the proper change. They refused. She asked for them to round up instead of down. They refused. She said she would never return. Loie stood on their principles. No precise change for you.

Loie is a neighborhood restaurant. My acquaintance lives in the neighborhood and knows just about everyone in the neighborhood. Her retained change is going to cost Loie a lot more than "like eight cents."

The server also told me that he has never worked in a restaurant that didn't have such a policy. I always pay by credit card (love those AMEX points) so I really don't know. Is it now common for a restaurant to not return full change?

Edited August 5, 2007 by Holly Moore (log)

[Busboy]

I worked at a bar that rounded to the nickel.

Seems like a pretty absurd little spat on either side.

[Holly Moore]

What struck me more than anything else was the restaurant standing firm and upsetting a customer.

At the same time, in my retail business - a copy center, there is no way we could get away with rounding off, especially rounding down.

[Yannii]

yes, it is now common for restaurants to NOT return exact change. all of the restaurants i have worked in, have not provided exact change, but we always tried to round up (in favor of the customer). i think your friends issue with loie is really more of a general customer service issue. if a customer asks for the change from a quarter you just have to give it to them. if giving someone 8 cents makes them happy, you simply have to do it.

actually, i would guess loie's supposed stance is illegal. if they indeed refused to provide accurate change, then loie's is sort of stealing that money. If i was frugal enough to care about the 8 cents, I would have asked for my quarter back so that i could go next door and get exact change. usually the situation is one where a server / bartender is returning change so that people can leave a cash tip. in that instance, 7 or 8 cents accuracy either way, isn't very important because we assume that the difference will be included/ excluded in whatever tip that is left. does that make sense? I personally think, that it's a relatively silly thing to be upset about (no offense holly, or holly's friend).

edited to appease the politically correct, arugmentative types

Edited August 6, 2007 by Yannii (log)

[etalanian]

Mike and I eat at restaurants frequently and I don't recall this ever happening to us. That being said, we either pay with a credit card or leave cash with the check, including the tip, so we don't need change.

But all of our friends also frequent restaurants and none of them have ever mentioned this type of situation.

I think I would be personally taken aback if this were done to me. I agree that it's akin to stealing. Why not just round the bill down to the nearest quarter? Seems it would solve this problem completely.

Eileen

[Alcibiades]

There's an old saying amongst FOH employees: "if you can't fold it, hold it." It is (in my experience) standard practice to not return coin change to guests. The correct policy is to always round in the customer's favor to the nearest dollar.

Granted, groveling for a few coins is cheap but no business should ever stand by the principle Loie invoked. Literally, nickel-and-diming to death.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Alcibiades (log)

[Vadouvan]

This is completely absurd.

Why should where you live have anything to do with if you should get the correct chage back ?

The perception that people who live around rittenhouse square are rich and thus should be considered cheap for asking for exact change which by the way is due to them is patently ridiculous.

As long as the US treasury continues to consider coins legal tender, restaurants have no basis not to return change other than that they are lazy amateurish operations like Loie.

Money is money, no one knows the motivation of why a customer wants the coins back, the simplistic answer is to simply label them cheap and those kinds of disingenous conclusions come from reasoning that has no legs to stand on, what about principle ?

As holly said it's pure chutpah to just assume you can do it as a restaurant because it's your policy.

I would simply drastically lower the servers tips.

It's not akin to stealing, it is stealing.

Over the course of a fiscal year, the sum total of those coins falls well within what is considered grand theft by current statutes. Stealing a little from a lot of people doesnt make you any less a criminal.

[Jeff L]

This is completely absurd.

Why should where you live have anything to do with if you should get the correct chage back ?

The perception that people who live around rittenhouse square are rich and thus should be considered cheap for asking for exact change which by the way is due to them is patently ridiculous.

As long as the US treasury continues to consider coins legal tender, restaurants have no basis not to return change other than that they are lazy amateurish operations like Loie.

Money is money, no one knows the motivation of why a customer wants the coins back, the simplistic answer is to simply label them cheap and those kinds of disingenous conclusions come from reasoning that has no legs to stand on, what about principle ?

As holly said it's pure chutpah to just assume you can do it as a restaurant because it's your policy.

I would simply drastically lower the servers tips.

It's not akin to stealing, it is stealing.

Over the course of a fiscal year, the sum total of those coins falls well within what is considered grand theft by current statutes. Stealing a little from a lot of people doesnt make you any less a criminal.

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Agreed and edited to spell chutzpah!

[mrbigjas]

Loie is a neighborhood restaurant.

it is? i always considered it basically a rittenhouse area scenester place. and i don't mean a scenester place for people who live in the rittenhouse area, but basically the same sort of category as rouge and walnut room and whatnot. in other words, the kind of restaurant that would do just this sort of thing, not worrying about repeat business, knowing it will always be crowded. after all it's owned by the same group that owns noche and drinker's, and the always insufferable bar noir.

[Holly Moore]

I'm not sure if it is neighborhood or not. I just surmised because its location is away from the glitz of the square and near La Colombe.

I had a great brisket sandwich at Loie a couple of years ago and a mis-labeled (or at least non-classic) and disappointing shrimp and grits for brunch a month or two ago.

Edited August 6, 2007 by Holly Moore (log)

[KatieLoeb]

Definitely a scenester kind of place, and I think Mrbigjas has it right when he says that they could care less about repeat business. Although I find this breach of conduct somewhat disturbing on other levels. Vadouvan is correct in stating this is theft. There's no doubt that the restaurant is in the wrong here. I just don't get the attitude behind it. At what staff meeting was it decided that customers shouldn't be given their proper change? It's just bizarre.

I'm actually sort of surprised Loie is still open after all this time. After the long ago exodus of several managers and chefs, I'd thought the barely dressed scenesters had found other doorsteps to darken in Old City or Northern Liberties by now. Isn't Rittenhouse Square so out of fashion? Or am I just out of the loop (again)?

[lancastermike]

This is completely absurd.

Why should where you live have anything to do with if you should get the correct chage back ?

The perception that people who live around rittenhouse square are rich and thus should be considered cheap for asking for exact change which by the way is due to them is patently ridiculous.

As long as the US treasury continues to consider coins legal tender, restaurants have no basis not to return change other than that they are lazy amateurish operations like Loie.

Money is money, no one knows the motivation of why a customer wants the coins back, the simplistic answer is to simply label them cheap and those kinds of disingenous conclusions come from reasoning that has no legs to stand on, what about principle ?

As holly said it's pure chutpah to just assume you can do it as a restaurant because it's your policy.

I would simply drastically lower the servers tips.

It's not akin to stealing, it is stealing.

Over the course of a fiscal year, the sum total of those coins falls well within what is considered grand theft by current statutes. Stealing a little from a lot of people doesnt make you any less a criminal.

←

Vanouvan is 100% correct. If there is change due, it ought to be given. It does not matter the location of the place. End of discussion.

[mrbigjas]

I'm actually sort of surprised Loie is still open after all this time.  After the long ago exodus of several managers and chefs, I'd thought the barely dressed scenesters had found other doorsteps to darken in Old City or Northern Liberties by now.  Isn't Rittenhouse Square so out of fashion?  Or am I just out of the loop (again)?

←

there's definitely still a rittenhouse/cc west scene, made of people who go to loie and rouge and walnut room and whatnot. if folks are feeling more jersey/clubby, it's tragos, and the new place upstairs from byblos, and continental west....

[serpentine]

I've had servers do the courtesy rounding my bill down to a dollar amount, and I've been returned change that was rounded up to the nickel. I've never, anywhere, seen a 'no change' policy. That's asinine. Especially since the cash register does the math for the server.

[NaFairge]

as a waiter at brasserie perrier, i always had a little bit of change in my apron. small bills as well. if someone asks for change of a 5 or 20 on a busy saturday, there is no way i am going to stand at the service bar and request small bills or coins from the bartender. i know a lot of waiters who do this.

also......

new chef at loie. brenton wallace. anyone been in the past two weeks?

[philadining]

I actually appreciate it when places round-off to at least quarters, I 'd rather not have 8 pounds of change in my pockets, but I've ALWAYS had places round-off in my favor. Even for something as inconsequential as a couple of cents, rounding in the establishment's favor is just obnoxious. Refusing to give the actual correct change when asked is appalling.

I'd seen some good reports on Loie when it was new-ish, so I checked it out a couple of times, and just got the distinct vibe that it was a bar/club scene with incidental food. What food I had was OK, but not memorable, and I remember getting the distinct impression that our ordering food was somewhat of an inconvenience to them, as they were getting ready for the late-night crowd.

So, there's a new chef, should we be checking it out anew?

[KatieLoeb]

new chef at loie. brenton wallace. anyone been in the past two weeks?

...got the distinct vibe that it was a bar/club scene with incidental food.

This was sort of my point upthread. Does anyone actually know what number new chef this is? Seems they go through them like Kleenex. And it's definitely because the food seems to be an afterthought to overpriced drinks. Are the chefs leaving because they/their food isn't being taken seriously, or because they got a better offer or what?

I remember when Loie first opened, the kitchen was getting decent reviews, at least for the burgers and brunch menu. Haven't really heard a good word in a long time. What's up with that?

[mrbigjas]

yeah, when it first opened i stopped in there a few times, always after wine tastings, which i was going to relatively often right around then. the burgers were good, although consistently cooked 1-2 levels rarer than requested. and they made a killer salad lyonnaise.

[kretch]

Over the course of a fiscal year, the sum total of those coins falls well within what is considered grand theft by current statutes. Stealing a little from a lot of people doesnt make you any less a criminal.

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I'd love to know if they're reflecting the windfall on their tax returns.