"Asian Dining Rules" -- Fat Guy's new book

[prasantrin]

But, after the sturm und drang of the sushi etiquette thread, I'm curious if it will prove to readers that you don't have to be Asian to write such a book. I'm sure that there will be some readers who will believe that such a book will not be 'authentic' because Steve is not Asian, but we won't know how big of an effect it will be until the book is released.

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Steve is very qualified to write such a book. The book is not written for the Asian crowd in mind, but is more a guide for non-Asians eating in Asian restaurants, as I understand it.

Last I checked, Steve Shaw is not from any Asian country, nor does he claim to be.

[mcohen]

This is me getting off track again: the problem is that mediocrity sells. These places like Grand Sichuan and Wu Liang Ye, to speak again of the New York area (the book is emphatically not just about New York), would go out of business pretty quickly if they only served the good dishes on their menus. The demand for the mediocre dishes is such that they have to make them.

Assuming we're talking about the same dish only with varying levels of success in execution, it would be a wonderful oppurtunity to inform readers what makes one dish succesful vs. one that is mediocre. So many diners accept bad asian food because they have no frame of reference to what good asian food should taste like.

Sushi in this country is an egergious example. You could put a blurb about the importance of rice-how it should fall apart in your mouth and how the rice should ideally taste like. Its been really disappointing to eat at some of the sushi bars that foodies and food critics have praised, as I have to wonder afterwards how much those people even understand about sushi. It wouldn't surprise me if they're also the same diners who use chopsticks to eat sushi.

Its like the Ranch Dressing Phenomeon- the company tried to copy the original recipe of the Hidden Valley Ranch but finally gave up and released a flawed version which consumers made a best seller because they had never tasted the original, superior version.

[MaxH]

This is me getting off track again: the problem is that mediocrity sells. ...

... it would be a wonderful oppurtunity to inform readers what makes one dish succesful vs. one that is mediocre. / Sushi in this country is an egergious example. ... Its been really disappointing to eat at some of the sushi bars that foodies and food critics have praised, as I have to wonder afterwards how much those people even understand about sushi.

Lots could be written (and has been) along those lines, for many cuisines, by critics of food trends -- good examples surface on this site periodically (though they aren't the latest heavily-marketed titles, with TV tie-in, that swamp most food-book discussion online). Lots could be written even about chopsticks -- e.g., I don't know if the new book mentions incongruity of chopsticks with plates (the reason I've seen many émigré Chinese reach for a fork by preference, when served Chinese food on a plate, while non-Chinese diners at the same table used chopsticks).

Wagner's fast-food history (published last decade in Vienna) cited novelty value of sushi even in the 1930s.*

Its like the Ranch Dressing Phenomeon- the company tried to copy the original recipe ... but finally gave up and released a flawed version which consumers made a best seller because they had never tasted the original, superior version.

Yes, that's the territory those food-trend critics go into. Ketchups, the latter-day US meaning of "French" salad dressing, "Thousand Island" salad dressing, Alfredo "sauce," Beaujolais nouveau, that sort of stuff.

* Nicht erst die New Yorker Yuppies entdecken die Sushi-Bars is caption of photo showing Charlie Chaplin hanging out at one.

[RAHiggins1]

Steven, you mentioned the "white people" menu in the video. I'm curious how extensively you cover the differences that I know I see when I go to my favorite place. I first got the laminated one sided menu with the standard dishes on it, but the table of asians next to me got a leather bound menu with a tassle on it. I got orange pekoe in the metal teapot, but the table next to me go jasmine tea in a glass teapot, I got a fortune cookie with my check, they got a platter of orange wedges. I've been going to the same place for awhile now and am on a first name basis with the owner/servers. They bring me Kimche and various pickled condiments when I sit down and they tell me whats off the menu to order now. They of course expect to see me now at a prequisite time on a prequisite day.

[Fat Guy]

The book discusses that phenomenon and proposes some ways around it (most of which boil down to being pushy and demanding the real stuff). It's maybe 3 pages of material in one place in the Chinese-restaurant chapter, and mentions here and there in other chapters (because it happens in all kinds of Asian restaurants, not just Chinese).

[Fat Guy]

Three thoughts on the issue of a non-Asian writing a book like this.

1. Many books about Asian restaurants and food written in English are by non-Asians. Some that come to mind immediately are the two books about sushi by Trevor Corson and Sasha Issenberg, James Oseland's "Cradle of Flavor," and Fuchsia Dunlop's "Revolutionary Chinese Cookbook." These are, fundamentally, nonfiction research-based books so the author's ethnicity shouldn't much matter. Although, I do think Jennifer 8. Lee's "Fortune Cookie Chronicles" is aided by her Chinese-American upbringing.

2. It would be impossible for someone to be a member of all the ethnic groups covered in "Asian Dining Rules." So, for example, if a Chinese person wrote the book, that person still wouldn't be Japanese, Korean, Indian or any Southeast Asian ethnicity. The best you could do is be a member of one group; the worst you could do is be a member of none (like me).

3. It's a book about restaurants in North America, not in Asia. Also, it's part of a larger body of work by me, which started with "Turning the Tables" (I also liked that title, but the marketing people liked "Asian Dining Rules," which was one of several I offered -- everybody seemed to like the double meaning as well as the way it rolls off the tongue) and is continuing in more focused fashion in "Asian Dining Rules." I may do other consumer-oriented guides to getting the most out of other types of ethnic restaurants in the future, though I'm not currently working on such a project.

[Fat Guy]

A nice article about the book popped up today on the Wall Street Journal's website: "Rules for Dim Sum -- and Then Some."

[tino27]

Nice article, Steven ... I noticed in the article that it said a publication date of Oct. 21st (next Tuesday). I assume I'll be able to walk into most Borders / Barnes and Noble and find a copy on the shelf?

[Fat Guy]

That's correct. It should be in most B&N and Borders stores as well as many independent bookstores (the book was just chosen as an "Indie Next Pick," which means many independent booksellers will stock the title) and, of course, you can get it from Amazon -- you can even order it now from Amazon and it will ship for the on-sale date.

[Fat Guy]

A couple of weeks back I went with a food writer named Kelly Dobkin to a place called Grand Sichuan House, in Bay Ridge (that's in Brooklyn, way the heck out there). We had a terrific meal and, even better, she wrote this story about it. The story chronicles our meal, illuminated by some terrific photos by Melissa Hom.

[Fat Guy]

Carla Spartos from the New York Post went with me to Moksha, the South Indian restaurant in Edison, NJ, last week. We got stuck in traffic for HOURS. But she still wrote a flattering story and they also found some sort of lens for the camera that makes me look 30 pounds lighter.

[Fat Guy]

You can now go to the HarperCollins website and get a small taste of the book. You can read the whole introduction and the first couple of pages of each chapter.

[prasantrin]

I browsed through the slideshow accompanying the Kelly Dobkin story and I have to ask...

Why didn't you teach them to eat out of a bowl rather than from a plate?

[Fat Guy]

We discussed it, and indeed the photographer (Chinese-American) was eating that way, but I wasn't going to browbeat everybody into eating a certain way.

It's also in the book:

And all too often, I see people struggling to eat

rice off their plates with chopsticks. But you won’t

see Chinese people trying to do that. China is not a

nation of masochists. The way most Chinese people

eat rice is from a bowl held up at mouth level. The

chopsticks are used to push the rice from the bowl

into the mouth. Show up at any Chinese restaurant

when the waitstaff is eating dinner and you’ll see

how it’s really done.

[robyn]

We discussed it, and indeed the photographer (Chinese-American) was eating that way, but I wasn't going to browbeat everybody into eating a certain way.

It's also in the book:

And all too often, I see people struggling to eat

rice off their plates with chopsticks. But you won’t

see Chinese people trying to do that. China is not a

nation of masochists. The way most Chinese people

eat rice is from a bowl held up at mouth level. The

chopsticks are used to push the rice from the bowl

into the mouth. Show up at any Chinese restaurant

when the waitstaff is eating dinner and you’ll see

how it’s really done.

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I don't think it's a question of browbeating. It's just a heck of a lot easier to eat that way! Perhaps some people don't know that it's an acceptable - in fact the proper - way to eat (I didn't at one time). And when you tell people it's ok - they will be greatly relieved not dropping grains of rice covered with food all over the place.

FWIW - I have traditional Chinese rice bowls at home for when I make Chinese food - or do "take-out". Robyn

[Fat Guy]

You can lead a horse to water . . .

[maggiethecat]

I love this book -- it's just freaking useful. And funny.

But I read aloud the last chapter "Ending the Tyranny of Authenticity" to my husband, occasionally punching the air for effect.

I propose finding culinary validation within ourselves and accepting that tomorrow's authenticity is always the child of today's inauthenticity.

Words to live by.

[Fat Guy]

I had a lovely meal with Gael Greene last week. This is her blog entry about the experience:

http://www.insatiable-critic.com/Article.a...t/Easy%20Korean

Scroll down to:

"Deep Into Korean Eats with the eGullet King" (stop laughing)

[tino27]

That's correct. It should be in most B&N and Borders stores as well as many independent bookstores (the book was just chosen as an "Indie Next Pick," which means many independent booksellers will stock the title) and, of course, you can get it from Amazon -- you can even order it now from Amazon and it will ship for the on-sale date.

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Wouldn't you know it that NONE of the Border's bookstores in my area have the actual book in the store. They could order it on-line for me, but then again, I could order it myself through Amazon and get it cheaper (including shipping). My copy should be showing up today or tomorrow.

[Dave the Cook]

Nice write-up by David Rosengarten in the Wine Enthusiast:

Making it clear that “this is not a cookbook,” Shaw spends 250 pages piling up “guerilla tactics” for getting the most out of a wide range of Asian restaurants in America. He begins with useful general principles–such as becoming a regular, asking lots of questions, going at slow hours if you’re trying to amass knowledge, taking risks, and saying you want “the real stuff.”

But the core of this very entertaining book is a welter of specific training ideas within each major ethnic cuisine.

My question is: which is the higher rank, "eGullet King" or "super-foodie"?

[Hest88]

I just finished the book. It was certainly a fun read and I am grateful for the section on chopstick use! This is *not* a book for the serious eGulleter, but a really good book for anyone either new to Asian dining or unfamiliar with the intricacies. I can imagine it would make quite a nice gift. ;-)

[Fat Guy]

New York Magazine implies that I am "the often pushy, aggressively schmoozy alpha Asian-food eater" in ( http://nymag.com/guides/holidays/gifts/2008/5 ), which reminds me of when San Francisco Weekly referred to me as someone "who loves restaurants with an almost embarrassing fervor, and who specializes in demystifying the not very mysterious" ( http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-11-02/restaur...os-and-gimlets/ )

[tino27]

New York Magazine implies that I am "the often pushy, aggressively schmoozy alpha Asian-food eater" in ( http://nymag.com/guides/holidays/gifts/2008/5 ), which reminds me of when San Francisco Weekly referred to me as someone "who loves restaurants with an almost embarrassing fervor, and who specializes in demystifying the not very mysterious" ( http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-11-02/restaur...os-and-gimlets/ )

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Steven --

The first link is broken ... bringing up a "page not found" type error.

Tom

[slkinsey]

http://nymag.com/guides/holidays/gifts/2008/52175/

[gingerbeer]

And hey, if you all have any questions, suggestions, contacts (maybe you own an Asian restaurant in the Eastern US close enough for me to visit, maybe you're an Asian vegetable purveyor), tips and tricks for getting the most out of Asian restaurants (I may be able to quote you), expertise of any sort (you're an Asian-food historian and want to let me interview you), anything, please feel to bring that up.

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Does Asian include Indian?