Fusion Italian

[hathor]

So, what happens when you mix regions?

We've spent the past 2 years exploring the regional cooking of Italy. And it's been a fantastic exploration; any of us who participated learned many, many things.

So, what happens when you mix regions? There is hand wringing from town to town, let alone whole regiosn.

What got me thinking about this was something that I made for lunch today. Sliced tomatoes (could be anywhere in Italy), layered over some tallegio (Northern Italy), with a sprinkle of dried orgegano (southern Italy...the mezzogiorno). I stuck it in the oven long enough to melt the tallegio. The result was excellent, cheesy goodness that was completely balanced by the acidity in the tomatoes, with the oregano adding a herbal note. Much more savory than combining tomatoes and mozzarella.

Did I cross the line? Is this not Italian? Does such a thing as fusion Italian exist?

[Pontormo]

Great topic, Judith!

Where in Italy nowadays can't you get spaghetti pomodoro e basilico in the middle of the tourist season? When was it that no one above the Red Belt (pure coincidence, mind you) used tomatoes in their cooking? Wasn't it just three-four generations ago?

We've also seen how many regions have cross-pollinated to the point of requiring Sardinian pecorino in Ligurian maro, or finding that Campania and Sicily share otherwise idiosyncratic traditions. There has to be something interesting behind the anchovy's arduous swim up into meals served in Piemonte, the ubiquity of Parmigiano Reggiano or the controversy over who exactly created eggplant parmigiano.

* * *

As sympathetic as I am to preserving and understanding local traditions, there is also something about making do with what one has on hand and not being dogmatic about recipes that also strikes me as respectful of Italian culture, or so it seems to this outsider. What's a recipe, after all, except for an artificially regularized interpretation of one person's version of something made countless other ways by different people at different times?

Short answer: your lunch sounds good. But honey, sliced tomatoes from New York in May?

Edited May 28, 2007 by Pontormo (log)

[Maureen B. Fant]

I started thinking about this question some years ago when I read a review in the Gambero Rosso guide that criticized, among numerous other things, a restaurant's numerous "interregionalità" (Italian is capable of marvelous synthesis, isn't it?). Well, I'd never thought in those terms before, but I have ever since. And let's say, I see what they mean.

Obviously, cross-fertilization is needed or we wouldn't even have the ingredients for penne all'arrabbiata. And the tendency in the slick new restaurants is definitely toward interregionality, but it's still not the Italian way (if I'm not being presumptuous).

Over my many years in Rome, I have become extremely wary of trying to "improve" on the old ways of doing things by mixing foods usually not found in the same kitchen. Parmigiano may be ubiquitous today, but you still grate ricotta salata on your Norma and pecorino romano on your matriciana. Even the most innovative chefs are very respectful of their local traditions and mix with great care and restraint. The Piedmontese may use Sicilian anchovies in their bagna caoda, but tradition doesn't prohibit buying ingredients from somewhere else. What it does, rather, is resist unfamiliar combinations. (This horror combinationis extends to other people's combinations too -- they simply can't get their minds around pb&j, to say nothing of "they put marmalade on turkey!")

Americans who are well-informed about Italian food tend to know more about more foods from more parts of Italy than most Italians and to take a broader, more catholic view of things. (The stupid quiz show I listen to on TV while I cook in the evening regularly stumps the contestants with regional food questions, which I almost always know the answer to.) Hence an American, or an Italian under 30 who has traveled a lot, is going to be the one to put oregano on the taleggio.

There is a subculture of regional mixing in the lower reaches of the mass-tourism sector. But it's a parallel universe, of no relevance to the principles being discussed here. The concern should be to educate the tourists so they will not accept spaghetti alla matriciana on the shores of Lake Garda.

[Stevarino]

Hathor, the fact that you know what comes from where, makes it okay, as long as it works. What's not okay is for someone that hasn't done their home work to do it with wreckless disregard for cucina regionale. Sometimes a substitution is in order because an ingredient is not available locally, but at least be respectful of the food and its history before you go fusing.

The Chefs in Puglia were quite serious about this subject, and it is apparent that a majority of "Italian" restaurants on a global scale are guilty of not trying to do the right thing in educating diners that Italy is not just one country when it comes to food.

[Pontormo]

This past weekend, Lynne Rossetto Kasper invited Sally Schneider to speak on her weekly radio show about improvisational cooking. The basic question: How do you decide what ingredients work well in combination with one another? The reply: In general, foods that you find growing close to one another complement each other perfectly.

It makes a lot of sense. Your reply is wonderful, Maureen, and I'm sympathetic. The very doctrinal side of Italian cooking is very much a presence in this forum, too, especially when it comes to which recipes are authentic or traditional.

Yet, when does a living culture decide that it is set and established, no longer receptive to new forces and influences that are now viewed as corruptive elements? Imagine Sicilian food without Middle Eastern conquest. Puglia without cherry tomatoes. The latter example may simply represent an imported ingredient, but the former so much more. After decades of Chinese, Somalian and Ethopian communities in Italy, slippage is inevitable.

There are certain regions that have a profound affinity for one another and overlaps make a lot of sense even when the regions do not share borders. Given the simplicity of many Umbrian and Tuscan main courses, first courses from other regions would not seem dissonant to me. A light soup, crostini or gnudi are better before vitello tonnato than pesto, perhaps, but pesto before a simply grilled dish...

I also find it interesting to see what Italian chefs do when they come to the United States wishing to share knowledge of their beloved region, yet also facing the expectation that they demonstrate individuality or an orignal flair if they wish to make a name for themselves. Fabio Trabocchi may not be the best example since we had problems with his first and only cookbook, but his restaurant's menu includes dishes "inspired" by Le Marche that might depend on the chef's broader knowledge. In the U.S., he's also free to draw from a wider regional repertoire in proving he's creative.

[hathor]

As sympathetic as I am to preserving and understanding local traditions, there is also something about making do with what one has on hand and not being dogmatic about recipes that also strikes me as respectful of Italian culture, or so it seems to this outsider.  What's a recipe, after all, except for an artificially regularized interpretation of one person's version of something made countless other ways by different people at different times? 

Short answer:  your lunch sounds good.   But honey, sliced tomatoes from New York in May?

←

Yes, I'm respectful of Italian culture, or at least I think I am, but I cannot be a pure Umbrian chef. If I were, then all my pantry contents would be pure Umbrian. Which is the case with most of my neighbors. Remember when we were cooking Sicilian and I ran up to Guido's to get a piece of frozen swordfish for couscous. I mentioned to him that I want to make a Sicilian couscous and he looked at me as if I had taken leave of my senses.

I know. I know. I jumped the gun on the tomatoes. That's why they went into the oven, I was hoping that a bit of a roast would concentrate the flabby flavor. I tried to resist. I swear I did!

What it does, rather, is resist unfamiliar combinations. (This horror combinationis extends to other people's combinations too -- they simply can't get their minds around pb&j, to say nothing of "they put marmalade on turkey!")

Americans who are well-informed about Italian food tend to know more about more foods from more parts of Italy than most Italians and to take a broader, more catholic view of things. (The stupid quiz show I listen to on TV while I cook in the evening regularly stumps the contestants with regional food questions, which I almost always know the answer to.) Hence an American, or an Italian under 30 who has traveled a lot, is going to be the one to put oregano on the taleggio.

There is a subculture of regional mixing in the lower reaches of the mass-tourism sector. But it's a parallel universe, of no relevance to the principles being discussed here. The concern should be to educate the tourists so they will not accept spaghetti alla matriciana on the shores of Lake Garda.

←

I think you may have hit the nail on the head with the combinations thing. To generalize my experience, (and with Italians its almost useless to generalize) they are extremely wary of combining flavors, let alone new flavor combinations. This could also be a factor in why they don''t eat out very much.

Maureeen, could you explain more when you say there is a 'subculture of regional mixing in the lower reaches of the mass-tourism sector."?

Hathor, the fact that you know what comes from where, makes it okay, as long as it works. What's not okay is for someone that hasn't done their home work to do it with wreckless disregard for cucina regionale. Sometimes a substitution is in order because an ingredient is not available locally, but at least be respectful of the food and its history before you go fusing.

The Chefs in Puglia were quite serious about this subject, and it is apparent that a majority of "Italian" restaurants on a global scale are guilty of not trying to do the right thing in educating diners that Italy is not just one country when it comes to food.

←

Stevarino, I'm not sure that just knowing where it comes from makes it ok, and what does that mean, 'make it ok'? It's ok to me because I'm willing to try the flavors of oregano, tomato and tallegio. But would it be ok to a Piedmontese? Does the 'ok' part come because I've a broader experience with different cuisines? I don't know the answer here. I'm just thinking out loud.

But I do think that you are 1000% right when it comes to "Italian restaurants" on a global scale being irresponsible by presenting Italian food a s a generic food category.

Of course the same could certainly be said about Chinese or Indian cuisine....

I find the Spanish avant garde culinary scene very interesting. Reading thru Docsonz's Voyage in Creativity

is an excellent examination of how tradition and innovation are being melded.

[hathor]

Yet, when does a living culture decide that it is set and established, no longer receptive to new forces and influences that are now viewed as corruptive elements?  Imagine Sicilian food without Middle Eastern conquest.  Puglia without cherry tomatoes.  The latter example may simply represent an imported ingredient, but the former so much more.  After decades of Chinese, Somalian and Ethopian communities in Italy, slippage is inevitable.

There are certain regions that have a profound affinity for one another and overlaps make a lot of sense even when the regions do not share borders.  Given the simplicity of many Umbrian and Tuscan main courses, first courses from other regions would not seem dissonant to me.  A light soup, crostini or gnudi are better before vitello tonnato than pesto, perhaps, but pesto before a simply grilled dish...

I also find it interesting to see what Italian chefs do when they come to the United States wishing to share knowledge of their beloved region, yet also facing the expectation that they demonstrate individuality or an orignal flair if they wish to make a name for themselves.  Fabio Trabocchi may not be the best example since we had problems with his first and only cookbook, but his restaurant's menu includes dishes "inspired" by Le Marche that might depend on the chef's broader knowledge.  In the U.S., he's also free to draw from a wider regional repertoire in proving he's creative.

←

Pontormo, that's a very interesting question: "when does a living culture decide that it is set and established...." You could parallel that to language. A living language must accept outside influences to better communicate with a broader audience.

It is certainly a balancing act to respect tradition and exhibit individual flair, and it seems to me that this is something that the Spanish chefs have a handle on.

Edited May 29, 2007 by hathor (log)

[Stevarino]

Hathor, "Okay" in the sense that you are knowingly fusing a cheese that is not traditionally known to be served on fresh tomatoes, and sprinkled with dried oregano; the fact that you created the dish, using ingredients that you had, using "what if", and it was successful, then good for you!

Let's just say for the fun of it, The Olive Garden Restaurant chain put the context of your creation on their menu, and called it "Tuscan Chicken Tallegio with roasted tomatoes, served over angel hair pasta with Alfredo cream sauce." That would not be "Okay."

[docsconz]

Hathor, "Okay" in the sense that you are knowingly fusing a cheese that is not traditionally known to be served on fresh tomatoes, and sprinkled with dried oregano; the fact that you created the dish, using ingredients that you had, using "what if", and it was successful, then good for you!

Let's just say for the fun of it, The Olive Garden Restaurant chain put the context of your creation on their menu, and called it "Tuscan Chicken Tallegio with roasted tomatoes, served over angel hair pasta with Alfredo cream sauce." That would not be "Okay."

←

That makes sense. It is not innovation that is the issue. It is misrepresentation, ignorance, the perpetuation of ignorance and lack of respect that is the problem.

[hathor]

Hathor, "Okay" in the sense that you are knowingly fusing a cheese that is not traditionally known to be served on fresh tomatoes, and sprinkled with dried oregano; the fact that you created the dish, using ingredients that you had, using "what if", and it was successful, then good for you!

Let's just say for the fun of it, The Olive Garden Restaurant chain put the context of your creation on their menu, and called it "Tuscan Chicken Tallegio with roasted tomatoes, served over angel hair pasta with Alfredo cream sauce." That would not be "Okay."

←

That makes sense. It is not innovation that is the issue. It is misrepresentation, ignorance, the perpetuation of ignorance and lack of respect that is the problem.

←

Stevarino, you get bonus points for creating that Olive Garden special.....!

But you are both making a very valid point. Well said.

[Maureen B. Fant]

Maureeen, could you explain more when you say there is a 'subculture of regional mixing in the lower reaches of the mass-tourism sector."?

It's not something I follow closely, but mass-tourism-oriented eateries tend to ignore local specialties and serve generic stuff (spaghetti alla bolognese [sic] was one of the first) or to take somebody's local specialty (e.g., spaghetti alla matriciana), transplant it, and make it generic. When I first started coming to Italy, matriciana and carbonara were found only in Lazio (hair splitters may include parts of adjacent regions). Tourists had never heard of them. But since about the 1980s, these traditional Lazio dishes are on those generic tourist menus throughout Italy, and they come out of a can or jar. Then the Bavarians who go to Gardasee (just out their back door) think they are eating Italian food and never discover the true local cuisine unless they take some real trouble to find the places that serve it. I don't always agree with the SlowFood's recommendations, but their guide does a tremendous service by signaling modest restaurants that still respect local traditions.

This is a circular problem to some extent. I assume the restaurants started serving generic food because mass wholesale distribution made it cheap, but now tourists have come to expect gloppy pasta and starchy pizza when they come to Italy, even parts of Italy that traditionally eat spatzle, so generic bad Italian is what they seek and get. And of course the original source of that gloppy matriciana they think is so typical is lost. (So bless those other tourists who make pilgrimages to Amatrice to taste the real thing.)

As for the question of natural evolution, which is another thing entirely, yes, of course new ingredients will arrive and be assimilated, cooking techniques will change as technology does (and often technology makes the revival of old techniques possible, or let's say emulable). The things is not to freeze progress but to try to ensure that tradition and traditional tastes are not forgotten, that the next generation of locals and visitors knows that matriciana is from the Apennines and that in Trentino tafelspitz is Italian food and that pizza dough should be tossed moments before it goes in the oven, not frozen.

[hathor]

Maureen, thanks for taking the time to answer my very broad based question.

I think it may be a long, uphill slog to re-educate the masses. A worthy slog, but a long one. And I think that you are dead on when you say it is a circular problem. A possible factor in this perpetuation of the generic, is a desire by people to eat what they have always been used to eating.

[Kevin72]

This meal could go on at least three different threads: The Calabria/Basilicata thread, where the roots of this meal are from, the Italian Immigrant Thread, or I ultimately decided this thread, since it uses influences from all over The Boot, even though it is largely Southern. It's a summer mainstay for us that I've been cooking practically from the getgo. The recipes are based on typical dishes but then gussied up a bit more. I guess, in the end, it's really not that much different from how I've been cooking lately since I haven't been able to stick to a recipe for the past six months!

Anyways, we start with stuffed artichokes:

The stuffing mixture is breadcrumbs, garlic, chilies, oregano, mint, anchovies, pecorino, and the real star is diced up bits of sundried tomato, adding a nice zing to the whole dish. They are baked/braised in a dish partially filled with white wine. The outermost layer of leaves you peel off and dip into the stuffing, but the rest is entirely edible from then on, leaves and all.

The real "fusion" element of this meal is in the contorno for the main. I take the Southern mainstay, sweet-n-sour eggplant, and use commerical balsamic vinegar with its own sweet and sour interplay in place of the more customary red or white wine vinegar.

The meat course is a take off of puttanesca sauce, the quick-cooked condimento for pasta consisting of tomatoes, garlic, chilies, capers, and olives. I braise chicken in it instead, and use the leftover sauce for pasta the next day or so. The heretical part of this dish is that the first time I made puttanesca, I didn't have any chilies on hand at all, so I used Tobasco sauce instead. And it was really good that way. Something about the way it interacted with the other ingredients created a smokey flavor and a nice, vinegary zing.

Blechy picture as always. Anyways, Hathor, hope you don't mind me using the thread space.

[hathor]

What's the point of an unshared thread?

I love those stuffed artichokes...wow!!

Tobasco sauce! Very interesting, and heretical. Reminds me...I need to put that on the list to bring to Italy!

[Pontormo]

Gorgeous! This has been a hard year for finding decent artichokes. If packed carefully, they'd be wonderful picnic food.