Riesling & Co. World Tour

[Stevarino]

I attended a tasting event in NYC last week (May14), sponsored by the german Wine Intitute.

The reputation is "not so sweet" because they're sweet? Not neccesarily.

I was lucky enough to sit in on a seminar, or selected tasting, modereated by wine consultant, Michael Green, and paneled by Ulrike Bahm, of German Wine Institute, Annie Turso, Sommelier @ Per Se, and Troy Weissman, Sommelier @ Town.

It consisted of three flights, dry riesling, spatburgunder, and auslese.

The dry rieslings were quite exciting!

2006 Riesling Spatlese Trocken, Konigsschild, Tesch, Nahe

www.tesch.de

2005 Riesling Erstes Gewachs, Erbacher Marcobrunn, Shloss Reinharthausen, Rheingau

www.shloss-reinharthausen.de

2005 Riesling Erste Lage, Scharzhofberger, Reichsgraf von Kesselstatt, Mosel

www.kesselstatt.com

2004 Riesling Grosses Gewachs, Kastenienbusch, Rebholz, Pfalz

www.oekonomierat-rebholz.de

I am interested in wine from a cook's point of view, but only recently revisited German wine, just from a general lack of exposure. From what I tasted, I was very impressed. I hope they can make their mark in the US marketplace. So sick of hearing people say "Pinot Grigio"

What do you think?

[Brad Ballinger]

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I think that Riesling is woefuly underappreciated, particularly those from Germany. The acidity level is right where I like it, they age surprisingly well, and the grape probably exhibits terroir more than any other grape. There are also excellent Reisling wines from Alsace, Austria, and Australia. I'm not a fan of most U.S. bottles with the except of Smith Madrone. One reason the wines are underappreciated in the United States is because most average consumers still think of them a sweet wines that you'd open for Grandma at Easter. For a long time, importers and exporters fueled this mindset by leaving the trocken wines in Germany. Fortunately, we are starting to see more of them.

On the other hand, the prices for these wines have remained relatively low. Sure, the prices for some producers (Donnhoff, J.J. Prum, and Muller-Catoir, for example) have increased at a faster rate than others, but there is still plenty of value out there. So, for that reason, I can be okay with Riesling (and German Riesling) flying below the radar.

[JohnL]

I agree with brad (even his rather selfish desire to see many rieslings continue to "fly under the radar.")

Whenever I hear people musing about the American palate for sweetness how we are all raised on Coke etc, I think of the aversion to riesling. Conventional wisdom dies hard!

Riesling itself presents a problem. Even when it is vinified dry, its very nature often leaves an impression as "sweet."

Even more problematic is the European systems for labeling these wines.

Consumers, for the most part, want one major piece of information when buying wine (cost aside): what does the wine in this bottle taste like? Once their expectations for the wine are established then it is a question of how well the drinking experience lives up to those expectations.

If the wine is sweet then how sweet is it?

Even trained wine professionals can often have difficulty figuring this out.

Especially given the problem that one year a producers auslese will be sweeter than last years spatlese or this years kabinett is sweeter than last years auslese!

In Alsace it has reached the point where many producers don't even follow the labeling laws some establishing their own rules. Zind Humbrecht has even established their own sweetness indicator (numbers from one to five). Even worse, many producers are pushing to de emphasize the varietal on the label in favor of the vineyard location/designation.

I believe that if riesling is to ever really "catch on" here and elsewhere in the world it will be our own producers and the Australians driving things.

Right now a Clare valley riesling or an "Eroica" from Washington State are far easier for consumers to understand in terms of what is in the bottle. They deliver on "dryness" and if a lot of people try and like these wines they may seek out the German and Austrian and Alsation examples.

However, if the europeans ever get their act together in terms of labeling information--well--that's a different story!

Right now I enjoy the fact that as far as quality is concerned one can find some amazing wines at very reasonable prices in wines from Germany, Austria and Alsace.

What other varietal offers this level of quality at such "fair" prices?

[wkl]

"What other varietal offers this level of quality at such "fair" prices?"

chenin blanc and melon de bourgogne (loire valley versions).

ssshhhhhhhhh. don't tell anyone.

[JohnL]

"What other varietal offers this level of quality at such "fair" prices?"

chenin blanc and melon de bourgogne (loire valley versions).

ssshhhhhhhhh. don't tell anyone.

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yes these are two good examples of really good wines that offer a lot of pleasure for reasonable prices.

I think Muscadet needs a bit of repositioning to consumers. It is not just a simple wine for shellfish. It also happens to be a wonderful aperitif wine.

It compares very favorably with a lot of crisp white wines and should be selling much better here than it is.

Chenin blanc is also an interesting case. The main problem as I see it, is in less than good vintages many of the Loire wines are too overly acidic and austere. (I am talking mostly about the wines made for early drinking). Also prices are pretty high for most of these wines. I would argue that neither chenin blanc or certainly Muscadet ever reach the heights/levels of complexity

and sheer drinking pleasure that riesling is capable of.

I love chenin blanc --but again the best wines need time as they do not offer a lot up front when they are young. I also believe that chenin blancs are greatest when vinified sweet and then often rival some of the finest German and Alsation riesling efforts.

[wkl]

i pretty much agree with you.

however, there is a lot of good to very good vouvray, savenniers, and montlouis that can be had for $10 on the low end to mid $20's.

some of the basic reislings from schonleber,keller,weegmuller,ratzenberger have crept up to $20 mark and were only about $12 a couple years ago. some of that could be the weaker dollar, but i doubt the prices will ever drop down to their previous levels, if and when the dollar strengthens.

i love reisling and own quite a bit, and i still think it is one of the great price/value wines in the world, but it's not the bargain it used to be.

otoh, fantastic muscadet can be had for under $15. these wines age remarkabley well and are a delight to drink young.

[JohnL]

agreed!

St Urbanshoff are producing some superb rieslings at very low prices these days as well.

I often suggest Muscadet to customers looking for dry refreshing and crisp whites. One problem is a perception that decent French wine for everyday drinking is expensive. This is less true today.

The riesling situation is mess. There are a boatload of terrific wines for drinking right now at very low prices (also the low alcohol should be a plus for these wines). The labels are either too confused/confusing or so overly simple (some Austrian examples) as to leave consumers scratching their heads.

[Stevarino]

Thanks for the responses,

I was hoping that someone else out there went to this event.

I agree with your points regarding labeling, and image. It is good for us that they are less popular for the time being, considering the way the price takes off once the brand, or wine maker is recognized by the media. One sticking point is the availability of many of the wines at this show. Many were looking for importers. Hey, but they tasted great!

As for the bottling and labeling looking forward, some producers are putting alot of thought into that area, at least for export to this country. I hope that they can do it in a way that allows them to preserve some of their heritage, as complicated as it seems to us. As for the dry style whites, (trocken?) the quality scale that they use looks slightly generic. One gentleman in the audience suggested that they move more toward a terroir system, as in France, for the reason that Brad mentioned.

As far as food goes, these , both sweet & dry, are alot of fun with Asian flavors, especially Thai curries with coconut milk, citrus flavors like limes, and oranges, and mint.

[Brad Ballinger]

One gentleman in the audience suggested that they move more toward a terroir system, as in France, for the reason that Brad mentioned.

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If this was a strictly German tasting, then the audience member who asked this question demonstrated an incredibly large amount of ignorance. Almost all pradikat wines (kabinett, spatlese, auslese, etc.) are labeled with the name of both the village and the vineyard. How much more emphasis on terroir can you get?

In Alsace, on the other hand, not all wines are labeled with the name of the vineyard. And there, the trend is more away from single-varietal wines and toward vineyard wines where the wine is made from more than one variety of grape grown in the vineyard.

[Stevarino]

One gentleman in the audience suggested that they move more toward a terroir system, as in France, for the reason that Brad mentioned.

←

If this was a strictly German tasting, then the audience member who asked this question demonstrated an incredibly large amount of ignorance. Almost all pradikat wines (kabinett, spatlese, auslese, etc.) are labeled with the name of both the village and the vineyard. How much more emphasis on terroir can you get?

In Alsace, on the other hand, not all wines are labeled with the name of the vineyard. And there, the trend is more away from single-varietal wines and toward vineyard wines where the wine is made from more than one variety of grape grown in the vineyard.

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The gentleman that made the statement was called on, by name, by the moderater several times, so I'm sure he was well respected for his opinion. He certainly didn't call on me, so I am the ignorant one! Not to mention that I enjoy swallowing my wine, and had worked the tasting room before sitting in.

I believe what he was saying was to adopt France's system of grading a wine, such as Grand Cru, Premier Cru... like that. I don't make a habit of collecting or drinking these wines, so I am the ignorant one, for I've forgotten what its called. It's not something I use often, for I'm a commoner.

Although I do recall the story about Mouton Rothschild getting all bent out of shape over it. I can imagine there might be some bad feelings drawn if Germany did something like that as well. It sure would shake up a media frenzy.

[David McDuff]

One gentleman in the audience suggested that they move more toward a terroir system, as in France, for the reason that Brad mentioned.

←

If this was a strictly German tasting, then the audience member who asked this question demonstrated an incredibly large amount of ignorance. Almost all pradikat wines (kabinett, spatlese, auslese, etc.) are labeled with the name of both the village and the vineyard. How much more emphasis on terroir can you get?

←

The gentleman that made the statement was called on, by name, by the moderater several times, so I'm sure he was well respected for his opinion. He certainly didn't call on me, so I am the ignorant one! Not to mention that I enjoy swallowing my wine, and had worked the tasting room before sitting in.

I believe what he was saying was to adopt France's system of grading a wine, such as Grand Cru, Premier Cru... like that. I don't make a habit of collecting or drinking these wines, so I am the ignorant one, for I've forgotten what its called. It's not something I use often, for I'm a commoner.

Although I do recall the story about Mouton Rothschild getting all bent out of shape over it. I can imagine there might be some bad feelings drawn if Germany did something like that as well. It sure would shake up a media frenzy.

←

Rather than ignorant, it seems to me that the gentleman in the audience was asking a very leading question. While the current Pradikat system set up by the German wine laws of 1971 makes reference to terroir by citing, as Brad mentions, the village and vineyard of origin, it does not place any assessment of quality on those sites. Rather, quality is based simply and only on the amount of sugar which naturally occurs on the vine. The idea is that a Spätlese is inherently superior to a Kabinett, that an Auslese is automatically better than a Spätlese, simply because the fruit is riper. Site -- terroir -- does not play into the current system at all.

In response to the current Pradikat system, there is a strong movement in German wine producing circles, particularly within the VDP, to return -- yes, return -- to a terroir driven system for identifying quality levels of German Riesling. Vineyard sites are being analyzed with regard to special characteristics and natural ability to produce superior vines. And very much along Burgundian lines (moreso than the classification system in Bordeaux), a hierarchy of first and great growth vineyards is being delineated. The wines from these sites, Erstes Gewächs and Grosses Gewächs (First Growth and Great Growth, Premier Cru and Grand Cru) are meant to be expressions of site, first and foremost. While off-dry and sweet wines will certainly continue to be produced from these vineyards, the signature bottlings, those entitled to use the Erstes and Grosses Gewächs terms, will always be fully trocken wines with no mention of the Pradikat system on their labels.

* * * * *

As for German Riesling from the cook's perspective, there may not be a more versatile wine/vine in terms of its ability to play across an extremely wide range of foods. The off-dry styles, as mentioned by others in this thread, can pair deftly with many Asian cuisines, handling highly aromatic and even spicy preparations. The dry wines, in particular, are great matches to seafood, pork and German-style sausages. The sweet wines, incredibly misunderstood on the US market, can be among the finest, most long-lived wines in the world, can pair predictably well with rich pâtés and terrines, and can provide some of the most pleasurable solo tasting experiences available.

[Stevarino]

Thank You David, that is what I was attempting to say.

That is very useful information. Erstes Gewächs and Grosses Gewächs (First Growth and Great Growth, Premier Cru and Grand Cru) were used on the labels of wines mentioned at the top of this thread, however, I didn't realize what it implied. Its a great day!

[JohnL]

As I noted before the problem is basically very simple.

The vast majority of wine buyers (and most retailers) need one key piece of information about a wine:

What does it taste like?--the flavor profile.

Unfortunately, the solution is not so simple!

The current pradikat system is confusing. The level of sugar is a precise measurement but as I noted: one man's auslese is another man's spatlese when it comes to how the wine tastes and varies within the system from vintage to vintage and wine maker to wine maker.

The notion of terroir is even more confusing. if wine geeks and professionals are confused about this (and make no mistake they are) how can the average customer out there possibly wrestle with it?

Neither the level of ripeness/sweetness or the location of the vineyard is really all that reliable as an indicator of quality.

At the top levels the producer the terroir and the residual sweetness are important--they have their place and the so called experts can continue to wrangle over the definitions and the reality endlessly.

Just as it is today, the people who are interested will continue to find the good stuff.

The issue here is why riesling has not "taken" off with a broader range or consumers.

Especially drier styles which have greater potential than the sweeter styles.

For starters, importers need to start bringing over the drier styles in greater numbers. My understanding is the Germans themselves consume the drier styles and the sweeter stuff comes here (and elsewhere).

Slap on a nice readable label that indicates the varietal and that the wine is DRY (dry as agreed upon with a measurable standard--dry has to mean dry!).

Many Kabinetts are really off dry in taste and most spatlesen are perceived by most tasters as sweet! Label em thusly!

Germany and Austria and Alsace need a mass market wine(s)--a well made riesling that tastes dry to most people that is made in enough quantity to be available around this country at a relatively low price.

Once a large number of casual and novice drinkers are comfortable with a basic well made riesling that is dry many will be more willing to try other styles and higher quality examples.

By the way--the Europeans can continue to use all the pradikat info and vineyard designations and whatever on the labels.

I would add that the Alsations are also debating an emphasis on vineyard designation (they seem to think downplaying the varietal is in order) and a hierarchy based on these designations.

The folly of this is obvious if one looks at Burgundy. Most savvy buyers pretty much relegate the cru status to secondary or tertiary (or no) importance in buying these wines.

Even more interestingly is that even the French are slowly coming around--varietal information is starting to appear on labels (at least for basic table wines). Guess what? People are buying these wines--who knew you could get a nice light pinot noir for so little money and from France yet!!!!

[Stevarino]

Thats a very solid argument JohnL.

Note taken, that the serious wine buyer will seek out the good stuff regardless of how confusing the label is. On the other hand, simplicity, as I have seen attempted by Valkenburg, with labels like "Frenzy" and "Falcon Hill" are trying to take it to a consumer level that, I feel, lessens my quality perception of the wine inside the bottle. That is where I was going earlier when I mentioned holding on to some level of heritage. If you look at these labels, you wouldn't know the wine was made in Germany, or maybe, that is what they are trying to accomplish. Simple, English Name "Dry White Wine". Maybe a little too simple? Its a competitive market at that level, and like you said, they'd have to make enough to meet the market's demand. At that point, what "really" in the bottle?

[JohnL]

The key is to offer consumers a good quality dry riesling at a reasonable price.

I think that heritage is important and should be part of any marketing effort.

The goal would be for people to try the wines and come away with a favorable impression of German (or Alsation or Austrian) Riesling.

A label needs to impart some important information: varietal, country of origin and whether it is dry or off dry or sweet.

The wine inside the bottle needs to deliver on that. For eg consumers will try a Kabinett after being told it is a dry wine and feel mislead coming away with the impresion that it is "sweet."

They also lose trust in the German labels and in German Riesling.

I don't think that a cute animal or an overly simple label of catchy name is required. Just some additional information a consumer can rely upon.

[Brad Ballinger]

The gentleman that made the statement was called on, by name, by the moderater several times, so I'm sure he was well respected for his opinion. . .I believe what he was saying was to adopt France's system of grading a wine, such as Grand Cru, Premier Cru... like that.

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Ahhhh, this clears it up. If that is the case, no ignorance at all.

[JohnL]

No certainly not ignorance. Just a misguided sense that the French cru system somehow denotes quality. It does not. At best it may indicate potential.

Most consumers will be just as lost as they are now.