Wolfgang Puck Co. Bans Foie Gras

[WHT]

You think?

ETA: That "someone" was the NYT Op-Ed.

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I think Mr. Puck is a great pitch and idea man but not long on logistics. Remembering stories on his from his early days and how he would buy a lot of the ingredients himself from small shops ETC. Great for one or two units but would never work for what he runs now and I think he is still stuck in that mentality.

He may just hand off other aspects to other people and that can work. It sounds more of jumping on a bandwagon for publicities sake than a well thought out plan. Regional availability and pricing will certainly be the smallest problem. Especially at his flagship units as I would think they consume a lot of product to meet demand. Again it does not sound like something he has spent years thinking about. He does not mention new “partnerships” with farms or suppliers and to me that would be a selling point.

[russ parsons]

while i don't agree with him about the foie gras ban (and several other issues), this kind of ethical purchasing can work on a large scale--look at chipotle. all the pork comes from niman ranch and they seem to be doing a pretty good job with it.

[Megan Blocker]

You think?

ETA: That "someone" was the NYT Op-Ed.

←

I think Mr. Puck is a great pitch and idea man but not long on logistics. Remembering stories on his from his early days and how he would buy a lot of the ingredients himself from small shops ETC. Great for one or two units but would never work for what he runs now and I think he is still stuck in that mentality.

He may just hand off other aspects to other people and that can work. It sounds more of jumping on a bandwagon for publicities sake than a well thought out plan. Regional availability and pricing will certainly be the smallest problem. Especially at his flagship units as I would think they consume a lot of product to meet demand. Again it does not sound like something he has spent years thinking about. He does not mention new “partnerships” with farms or suppliers and to me that would be a selling point.

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Mmmm, interesting.

My thinking is that he must have a staff that helps him think of these things, in order to run as large a business as he currently does...

[Megan Blocker]

while i don't agree with him about the foie gras ban (and several other issues), this kind of ethical purchasing can work on a large scale--look at chipotle. all the pork comes from niman ranch and they seem to be doing a pretty good job with it.

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That's an interesting parallel, definitely.

I'm familiar with Chipotle's relationship with Niman; do they have similar producers lined up for the chicken and beef they serve?

[JohnL]

Why Niman?

I have not found their products to be all that inspiring flavor wise.

Their beef in my experience is mediocre and the pork is ok.

I must be missing something.

[Megan Blocker]

Why Niman?

I have not found their products to be all that inspiring flavor wise.

Their beef in my experience is mediocre and the pork is ok.

I must be missing something.

←

I think we're focusing on Niman's philosophy (and Chipotle's ability to market that philosophy and make a profit doing so), rather than the flavor of their meat, which is a possible topic for another thread, definitely.

The question is, can Puck do something along those same lines?

[The Blissful Glutton]

"I am concerned about the increase in diseases such as diabetes and obesity in our children,” he said. “I believe we have a responsibility to teach young kids not only about nutrition, but about where food comes from, and provide them with healthy food they like to eat. Providing children with healthier foods that are free of hormones, antibiotics, preservatives and pesticides is truly a step in the right direction to ensure the wellness of further generations.  My companies are switching entirely to all-natural and [uSDA-certified] organic animal products and produce because they help keep us and our children well," Puck said.

This is exactly why they need to stop serving foie gras! Just the other day, I was visiting elementary schools in the South Bronx, and all the kids were wandering the halls eating foie gras kebabs. It was terrible. You could see their arteries hardening, the pounds accumulating, the diabetes, the asthma, the depression combined with hyperactivity. They need to replace that stuff with Wolfgang Puck pizzas so the Bronx can rise again.

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LMAO

[russ parsons]

Why Niman?

I have not found their products to be all that inspiring flavor wise.

Their beef in my experience is mediocre and the pork is ok.

I must be missing something.

←

perhaps, or maybe just different tastes. i think their beef is really outstanding and their pork is pretty great, too. whether it is worth the bump in price is another question (i serve them for special meals).

the main point, as megan pointed out, is that niman does raise their animals ethically (this isn't the only difference--the beef is slaughtered on average a full year later than normal and has, to me, a much deeper flavor).

As for Chipotle's beef and chicken -- i don't think they have them. the one near me is pork only. it's also a model of efficiency, really ingenious. they have (IIRC), pork prepared three ways (carnitas, barbacoa and grilled), you can choose it in a taco, a burrito or in a salad, it comes with three salsas. as you walk down the line, you make the choices at each stop and by the time you get to the cash register, you have good, hot, freshly made food. the efficiency expert in me is dazzled (and the eater is usually pretty happy, too).

[ludja]

Most of this is laudable. The only part of this that I have a problem with is the first part - banning of all foie gras. Obviously there is a huge difference of opinion regarding whether or not foie gras production practices are inherently cruel. While some farms may be cuel with their practices, I do not believe that it is inherently so and that people continue to anthropomorphize to an extreme. Basically, I think Puck caved.

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I agree with this as well.

One thing that just crossed my mind after reading the thread over the last week is that I wonder if any tiies he has left with Austria have had an impact on his decision. I'm sure the economic part must have been a major driver but this may have played a part as well.

I recently read somewhere that Austria produces/consumes the largest percentage of organic food in Europe. The linked article below mentions that 13% of the cultivated land is now organic and that about 10% of farms (19,000 out of 217,000 farms) are organic. On another note it is interesting that a country of 7-8 million people the size of North Carolina has 217,000 farms! As another aside, I think that Austria produces anywhere from 80-90% of the food they eat.

The article also mentions that Carinthia (Puck's home province) as an early proponent for organic farming and that neighboring Styria has been the leader in conversion to organic farms in the last 10-15 years. In this time period the Austrian government gave subsidies/tax breaks to farmers who converted to organic methods.

Also...

The shift to organic farming systems was accompanied by intensive advertising by the large food chains and food processors, which first introduced organic brand names to their assortments in 1994. These industries launched intensive promotional campaigns through the media, emphasising not only the merits of organic products and their brand names, but also successfully linking them to positive attributes such as "well-being", "pleasure" and "Austrian landscape and culture". This resulted in greater public awareness of organically produced foods and created a greater demand for organic products. As it could be seen all over Europe, the BSE-crisis created a boom in consuming of organic products, but this boom has also levelled off and turned into a stable demand for organic products.

Here is the Austria page on a website for organic food information in Europe: click

Edited March 28, 2007 by ludja (log)

[larrylee]

Burger King Shifts Policy on Animals

In what animal welfare advocates are describing as a “historic advance,” Burger King, the world’s second-largest hamburger chain, said yesterday that it would begin buying eggs and pork from suppliers that did not confine their animals in cages and crates.

Edited March 28, 2007 by larrylee (log)

[JohnL]

Why Niman?

I have not found their products to be all that inspiring flavor wise.

Their beef in my experience is mediocre and the pork is ok.

I must be missing something.

←

I think we're focusing on Niman's philosophy (and Chipotle's ability to market that philosophy and make a profit doing so), rather than the flavor of their meat, which is a possible topic for another thread, definitely.

The question is, can Puck do something along those same lines?

←

I think that is a very real part of the issue.

Not that ethical treatment and flavor are neccessarily mutually exclusive but....

Somewhere flavor and quality needs to come into play.

[Megan Blocker]

As for Chipotle's beef and chicken -- i don't think they have them. the one near me is pork only. it's also a model of efficiency, really ingenious. they have (IIRC), pork prepared three ways (carnitas, barbacoa and grilled), you can choose it in a taco, a burrito or in a salad, it comes with three salsas. as you walk down the line, you make the choices at each stop and by the time you get to the cash register, you have good, hot, freshly made food. the efficiency expert in me is dazzled (and the eater is usually pretty happy, too).

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We may be getting a bit OT, but they definitely have them...just had a steak fajita burrito a couple weeks back. (Though they may serve different meats in different locations.)

[Megan Blocker]

Why Niman?

I have not found their products to be all that inspiring flavor wise.

Their beef in my experience is mediocre and the pork is ok.

I must be missing something.

←

I think we're focusing on Niman's philosophy (and Chipotle's ability to market that philosophy and make a profit doing so), rather than the flavor of their meat, which is a possible topic for another thread, definitely.

The question is, can Puck do something along those same lines?

←

I think that is a very real part of the issue.

Not that ethical treatment and flavor are neccessarily mutually exclusive but....

Somewhere flavor and quality needs to come into play.

←

Of course - but since I was replying to a comment about the business end of things ("Is this really a feasible model?"), I do think Chipotle is a good example of a phenomenally successful business that not only sourced ethically, but parlayed that sourcing into marketing and business - their pork is loudly and proudly touted as Niman Ranch product, and it sells well, from what I know (will try to find some actual sources on that). Why can't Puck do the same?

[Busboy]

Why Niman?

I have not found their products to be all that inspiring flavor wise.

Their beef in my experience is mediocre and the pork is ok.

I must be missing something.

←

I think we're focusing on Niman's philosophy (and Chipotle's ability to market that philosophy and make a profit doing so), rather than the flavor of their meat, which is a possible topic for another thread, definitely.

The question is, can Puck do something along those same lines?

←

I think that is a very real part of the issue.

Not that ethical treatment and flavor are neccessarily mutually exclusive but....

Somewhere flavor and quality needs to come into play.

←

Of course - but since I was replying to a comment about the business end of things ("Is this really a feasible model?"), I do think Chipotle is a good example of a phenomenally successful business that not only sourced ethically, but parlayed that sourcing into marketing and business - their pork is loudly and proudly touted as Niman Ranch product, and it sells well, from what I know (will try to find some actual sources on that). Why can't Puck do the same?

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Two things:

1) this veering towards a second topic on ethical sourcing, which would be a great topic, but should be treated separately.

2) Regarding foie gras, I'd guess that Wolfgang and the ant-foie gras crowd would argue that there is no such thing as ethical foie gras sourcing -- it's like trying to find ethical cruelty. A farmer can free his chickens, but there's no way to make foie gras without driving that pipe down ducks' throats.

[russ parsons]

not wishing to re-invigorate the whole foie gras debate, but in the interest of fairness it should be pointed out that these are animals that routinely swallow whole fish that are bigger than the feeding tubes.

[larrylee]

John,

Just to complete the thought, I'm holding both groups (Farm Sanctuary, Center for Consumer Freedom) at arm's length, giving neither any more benefit of the doubt than the other. As you say, I guess one has to read the extremes and draw one's own conclusions.

[larrylee]

2) Regarding foie gras, I'd guess that Wolfgang and the ant-foie gras crowd would argue that there is no such thing as ethical foie gras sourcing -- it's like trying to find ethical cruelty.  A farmer can free his chickens, but there's no way to make foie gras without driving that pipe down ducks' throats.

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"Driving that pipe down ducks' throats." Now that's just trolling.

http://www.mensvogue.com/food/articles/200...currentPage=all

Many varieties of duck are migratory, and they instinctively overeat before the long voyage; birds have the remarkable ability to store excess nutrients as fat in their livers, which regularly double in size, but not much more than that without force-feeding. (As you may have noticed in the mirror this morning, mammals store fat all about their bodies and not in their livers, unless they are very sick.) The duck's anatomy also includes a crop, "a pouchlike enlargement of the esophagus . . . in which the food undergoes a partial preparation for digestion before passing on to the true stomach," according to the Oxford English Dictionary. Ducks don't chew—they have no teeth, and they have no gag reaction. A duck's crop can hold the excess corn it is fed, unless it is forced to swallow too much, in which case some of the corn gets forced into the bird's stomach or clogs its throat, a rare occurrence when ducks are fed by hand. The ducks are kept in an ample yard and crowd around when the feeder appears. Near the end, when their fattened livers weigh a pound or more, the ducks may possibly have trouble walking.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/14/dining/1...agewanted=print

In a good year, Mr. Cabannes said, his ducks produce 2,000 tons of cooked foie gras, at about 100 euros a kilogram, or 2.2 pounds. He admits readily that his ducks, after 18 weeks of gavage, weigh roughly six times what they do at the start. Yet he insists that his ducks are not mistreated.

"It's the duck who decides the pace," he said as he led a visitor through his barns. "In one hour we do five ducks," he said, while the biggest industrial producers, he said, could manage 1,500 to 1,600 in an hour. "It's not the quantity that counts," he said, "it's the work well done that counts."

[Megan Blocker]

NPR's humorist Brian Unger weighs in on Wolfgang Puck's move toward cruelty-free dining.

Have a listen...it's short and funny (though not terribly full of topical material).

[docsconz]

Before anyone forms any opinions on this, I would suggest the consideration of the motivation behind these efforts.

The non profit group Farm Sanctuary has a goal of eliminating the "use" of animals for any purpose. Those who believe that these people are promoting the ethical treatment of farm animals are naive at best.

The real goal is the complete abolition of livestock agriculture.

Here's a quote from a former investigator for the group David cantor: "Everyone who agrees unnecessary animal suffering should be ended must eat no animal food products."

Their website states somewhat matter of factly:"these animals are our friends not our food."

Again, I suggest people look into these groups and determine their real goals and learn about their tactics and then decide if they are comfortable in applauding their efforts or worse the results of their efforts.

 

farmsanctuary

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With "friends" like Farm Sanctuary, animals don't need enemies. If they weren't our food, most of these animals and species would not exist. Of course we could all raise pet pigs, cows, sheep and chickens as uneaten family pets! I am happy that Puck is taking an overall approach to ethical procurement of animals, I just wish he did it in a way that didn't feed into the propaganda of organizations like Farm Sanctuary.

[JohnL]

I agree Doc.

It seems that Puck and his organization were "pounded" into submission by a group(s) that go well beyond informing the public about issues.

It is one thing when a group distributes leaflets or testifies at congressional hearings or even holds demonstrations or boycotts, it is quite another when the group uses lawsuits, threats and harassment and worse. what is really frightening is that most of these groups believe that the end justifies the means. They are zealots.

I also have a problem when these groups decide they will define what constitutes "cruelty" and what constitutes "ethical" treatment. I wonder if Wolfgang came up with that nine point (or whatever) program/plan on his own out of his own desire to do the right thing.

A thread here not too long ago contained a link to a Public radio interview of a woman who has been working with the cattle industry (among others) to improve slaughter methods and make them as humane as possible. it is eye opening.

These so called activist groups really do not want to work with the food industry to improve life, rather they ultimately seek to radically change life for all of us to fit their vision of utopia.

"Animal rights" is a phrase/concept that everyone should seriously consider. It implies that animals and humans are equal. In order for a "right" to be established a "right" must be sacrificed, a delicate balancing act to be sure.

Unfortunately, when these people can not find any compelling scientific based information to make a case against foie gras production they resort to smear campaigns and legal threats. To them this isn't about better methods of killing animals for food, it is about "using animals" for any purpose. It's all there on their websites and in their literature--one just needs to read between the lines!

[jsmeeker]

no foie gras at Spago Beverly Hills? Damn. I was planning a trip there in the near future. <sigh>

Pretty much what everyone else said about the foie gras bit being disappointing, but everything else being OK.

[mathieu77]

foie gras is and will always be a controversial subject. But do not forget that it has been a technique used since hundred of years in south west of France. It has a really strong cultural aspect attach to it.

Maybe foie gras should only be eaten in France, but come on this is such a delicassy, and if we eat duck let s eat it all (neck is very good as well as the head)