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You're correct in talking about the use of oil. But I think a little more explanation would be helpful In home stir frying the food is cooked by being tossed in the pan, and the pan transmits the heat to the food. When you 'velvet' (marinate protein in egg white, cornstarch, salt and wine) and then pass it through the oil, the oil rather than the pan transmits the heat. Since the food is surrounded by the oil, it cooks much more evenly, and quickly. You end up with a better and more uniform result and ultimately a less oily one. At first this may sound contradictory. But follow me for a second. When you stir fry you have 2-3 T of oil in the wok. This will typically end up being part of the sauce. When you 'pass' food through oil, the food is well drained and the wok is wiped cleaned before the food is returned to the wok for saucing. Using this method you can usually end up with less oil in your finished product. Keep in mind the following: In Chinese cooking when we do a stir fry dish we first cook the meat and vegetables until they are 96% done, remove them from the wok and then create a sauce. When we make a sauce we almost always start with the herbal ingredients first, garlic, ginger, scallion, hot peppers, and then any pastes, hoisin, sweet or hot bean paste, and then afterwards add the liquids and dry spices: stock, soy, oyster sauce, wine, salt, sugar. By the way in a Cantonese kitchen vegetables are usually blanched in water, however in a northern or Szechuan kitchen they may often be cooked in oil. They cook very differently in oil because is is at least 100 degrees hotter than boiling water - 10 second string beans - crispy and beautifully bright green.

You're correct in talking about the use of oil. But I think a little more explanation would be helpful In home stir frying the food is cooked by being tossed in the pan, and the pan transmits the heat to the food. When you 'velvet' (marinate protein in egg white, cornstarch, salt and wine) and then pass it through the oil, the oil rather than the pan transmits the heat. Since the food is surrounded by the oil, it cooks much more evenly, and quickly. You end up with a better and more uniform result and ultimately a less oily one. At first this may sound contradictory. But follow me for a second. When you stir fry you have 2-3 T of oil in the wok. This will typically end up being part of the sauce. When you 'pass' food through oil, the food is well drained and the wok is wiped cleaned before the food is returned to the wok for saucing. Using this method you can usually end up with less oil in your finished product. Keep in mind the following: In Chinese cooking when we do a stir fry dish we first cook the meat and vegetables until they are 96% done, remove them from the wok and then create a sauce. When we make a sauce we almost always start with the herbal ingredients first, garlic, ginger, scallion, hot peppers, and then any pastes, hoisin, sweet or hot bean paste, and then afterwards add the liquids and dry spices: stock, soy, oyster sauce, wine, salt, sugar. By the way in a Cantonese kitchen vegetables are usually blanched in water, however in a northern or Szechuan kitchen they may often be cooked in oil. They cook very differently in oil because is is at least 100 degrees hotter than boiling water - 10 second string beans - crispy and beautifully bright green.

Thanks for all the advice, and Ed, thanks for your detailed post, which sounds like an excellent way to get stuck in. That will be my next project. I'm encouraged that I have all the pantry items already (does Shiaoxing wine keep, or is it like, um, wine?). I think I need to buy a bigger wok. All this will happen very soon after Christmas Suzanne -- it's not the flipping technique per se that concerns me. I'm usually a bit gung ho with imitating techniques I've seen. It's more the issues I described before (number of ingredients, how and when do you make adjustments, and so on). Ed's and other's posts have been very helpful in this respect. (Edit note: having said which, I think using a too-small wok did make the technique harder, as well as reducing the heat's effectiveness by overfilling.)

I don't know if you had a chance to look at my Q & A from 2 weeks ago but I wrote a post talking about many of your concerns. I have copied it here and hope you find it helpful. Please feel free to respond or ask any further questions. By the way, I too like Irene Kuo's book and mentioned so during the Q & A. ES AN APPROACH TO COOKING AND FLAVORING CHINESE STIR FRYS To my mind learning to cook proper Chinese is food is akin to learning a craft. Once you have mastered the techniques you can move ahead and apply your knowledge to create a series of basic preparations and their variations. Unfortunately I don’t think there are just two or three supreme tips. I have a philosophy about how to approach and think about this way of cooking and hope that it will be helpful in guiding you as well as others. 1) Learn how to select the correct cuts of meat and vegetables and how to prepare, cut, and flavor (marinate) them for cooking. 2) Learn how to cook these meats and vegetables so that they are properly cooked through and exactly the right texture. 3) Learn how to season the food you’re preparing. Time after time my cooking seems to reinforce this approach. For example when you’re making beef and broccoli, you start by purchasing the right cut of meat and learning to slice it to the desired shape. Different cuts lend themselves to different shapes. Of course you’ll need some really fresh broccoli. Make sure it isn’t too old and tough. When we start to cook this dish we fry the meat so that it is just cooked through and quite tender, and cook the vegetables so that they aren’t raw, but bright green and crisp/tender. Finally we create a sauce and then toss the whole thing together, for just 20-30 seconds, so that the meat and vegetables are properly seasoned. We quickly dribble in a touch of sesame oil, to create a great smell, and then remove the food from the wok and plate it. Should you toss the meat in the sauce for more than a few seconds it will toughen and your dish will lose some quality. ***This 3-step technique of preparing the food, then cooking it to the right texture, and then flavoring it, recurs in recipe after recipe. Most importantly, when you start to think about stir-frying this way, it provides an approach for dealing with all sorts of Chinese and Asian recipes.*** Beyond this here are some other basic pieces of advice: For home cooking I suggest cooking in a 14” flat-bottomed wok. Get a wok strainer Use a Chinese spatula and a Chinese stir-fry spoon Get good recipes Use really fresh food Use good homemade chicken stock As a practical example I have included a fairly detailed recipe for your perusal. Ed Sliced Beef with Broccoli Ingredients: 1 lb. flank steak, trimmed and partially frozen NOTE:you could also use other cuts among them boneless sirloin or filet mignon or my favorite poor man's cut: chicken steak (also know as beef blade chuck steak - it first needs to be trimmed of exterior silver skin and interior gristle) for the beef marinade: 1 egg white 1 T dry sherry or Shaoshing wine 1/4 t salt 2 T cornstarch 1/2 head broccoli, washed and cut into 2”pieces 2 scallions, cleaned and cut in 1/3” pieces 1 t minced garlic 1 t thin sliced ginger, cut in 1/2” pieces for the seasoning sauce: 1 1/2 T Kikkoman soy sauce 2 t oyster sauce 1 t dark soy 1 T dry sherry or Shaoshing rice wine 1/2 t sugar 1/4 t MSG (opt) dash white pepper 1 T cornstarch dissolved with 1 1/2 T water 3 cups vegetable oil add at the last moment: 1/2 t sesame oil Prepare Ahead: 1. To slice the beef: Holding your cleaver at a 45-degree angle to the cutting surface and cutting across the grain, slice the partially frozen flank steak into 1/3” thick pieces, each 2”- 3” long and 1/2” wide. 2. To marinate the beef: Put the beef slices in a mixing bowl and add the egg white, wine and salt. Using your fingers briskly mix for about 30 seconds until the beef is evenly coated. Next add the cornstarch and continue mixing until it is just dissolved. Transfer the beef to a clean mixing bowl, discarding any extra marinade clinging to the first bowl. Cover and refrigerate until ready to cook. The beef may be cooked immediately though its texture is best after 12 hours. If well refrigerated it will stay fresh for at least 48 hours. To Cook: 3. To cook the beef: Heat 3 cups of oil in a wok until it is moderately hot: 280-300 degrees F. With the heat turned to it’s highest level, add the sliced beef to the hot oil, and using a pair of chopsticks or a slotted spoon, gently swirl the beef in the oil so that the slices separate from one another. Cook, stirring gently, until no trace of pink remains and the beef starts to bubble vigorously in the oil: about 60 seconds. Using a slotted spoon transfer the beef slices to a strainer suspended over a pot to catch the dripping oil. After removing the beef from the oil continue to leave your wok full of oil over high heat. 4. Cook the broccoli: With the flame still at its highest level, reheat the oil for about 2 minutes: until it is 325-350 degrees. Now add the broccoli to the oil and cook stirring gently for 30 seconds. Immediately stop the cooking by draining the contents of the wok over the beef and into the same strainer that’s suspended over a pot to catch the oil. If any of the beef marinade has stock to the wok scrape it out and discard it. Wipe out your wok and return it top the heat. Note: If a great deal of marinade has stuck to the pan you may have to wash out the wok and reheat it. 5. To sauce the food: With the heat turned to its highest level add 1 T vegetable oil to the wok followed by the garlic, ginger, and scallion. Cook, stirring for 10 seconds, then add the seasoning sauce that has first been briefly mixed to redistribute the cornstarch. Stir constantly until the sauce comes to a boil and thickens. Working quickly add the beef and broccoli to the wok and continue stirring until the food until it is completely coated with the sauce, about 30 seconds. Don’t stir the meat in the sauce any longer than necessary: boiling it in the liquid will toughen it. Immediately sprinkle with the 1/2 t of sesame oil and serve. -------------------- Ed Schoenfeld

Once I accepted the fact that even with an extra-hot burner, I would never be able to duplicate Chinese restaurant food at home, I lost my fear of trying to cook "Chinese-ische." In other words, I can't get that almost-instant caramelization of vegetables, seafood, meat, etc, that seems to be the hallmark of a good stir-fry. But I can still get the flavors of the sauces and spices, so I can live with that. As for the seemingly vast number of ingredients: many of them are in small amounts, so prep time is not all that great. And this is one instance where "salad bars" are actually a good thing -- pre-cut pepper strips, celery, etc. (just wash it well before using). Do you have them there? Kiku -- you're not afraid of the flipping-and-tossing thing, are you? If so, just practice with something like cherry tomatoes or small potatoes in a cold wok, until you are comfortable with the push-it-away-from-you-then-lift-and-jerk-it-back-toward-you motion. Just like flipping something in a sauté pan. Just keep bashing away. Ask questions about dishes you like, when you eat out. Try to figure out what goes into a dish, and how it is made, and then try it at home. Of course it won't be exactly the same, but you'll have fun learning. Yes, Barbara Tropp's books are very, very good. And Nolonger -- a lot of those "unusual" ingredients keep forever, and you can always try adding a little of them to Western dishes to give a subtle change.

I'm watching this thread closely and hoping to learn. I, too, have a great fear of woks and further, with an electric range, they seem ill-fitted for the job they are supposed to do. I read recently and I wish I could remember where, that a large cast iron pan was more practical on an electric range and I did experiment. My resulting stir-fry was much better than any I had done before (mind you, I have never owned a wok!). I let the pan get very, very hot before I added any ingredients and I keep a flame tamer handy to slip under when things seem to be getting out of hand. However, it still takes a very long time for a cast iron pan to lose heat. My bigger problem with stir fries is that they seem bland and have a sameness about them. Now, I also have to admit that I have a fear of chinese ingredients simply because they are so unfamiliar to me and even sound scary: blackbean sauce, oyster sauce, hoisin sauce. Yet Chinese is one of my favourite cuisines ever since a friend introduced to me to a little-known restaurant in Toronto that was highly regarded by the Chinese community but little used by the general public. This was many, many years ago and I'm sorry but I can't remember the name. There was zero ambience - just long, bare wooden tables and benches. But the food - oh the food! I can't even remember what I ate only that I thought it was marvellous. Since then I've had a few meals in Chinese restaurants but only in one run by a friend have I found the food to be good. Still I persist in believing that one can make good Chinese food at home. So I'll be watching and hoping as this thread develops.

Where did you get the iron one? Is it cast iron? It seems like it would be too heavy to lift! The Joyce Chen woks available now have flat bottoms.

Both my long-handled woks are pretty much round-bottomed, perfectly round on the inside and with a slight flattening at the outside base, so it balances okay. One is a Chinese iron one, and the other is a weird Joyce Chen-like one made out of a strange black metal that I don't like as well.

OK, I just tried turning the grille upside down, and it is sitting directly on the burner. Then I removed the grille, and put the ring directly around the burner (small side down), but it's not quite centered, and the wok sits on the burner instead of the ring. Then I flipped the ring, but it's too wide for the space around the burner, and sits on the ledge on 3 sides, and isn't very stable. If I put the grille back, and put the wok directly on it, it's kind of stable, but I like the stability of the ring better. The problem is that the heat comes out the holes and burns up my potholders. I've been looking for a wok with a long handle, but have had a hard time finding with a round bottom.

If you can turn the grille thing on your stove that fits over the burners upside down so that the wok can actually sit in the round depression (concavity?), you can dispense with the wok ring. The flames will be directly under the wok and the heat shouldn't escape as much. (Sorry, I'm hopelessly retarded when it comes to names of things.)

I have a round bottomed wok, but I'm unsure how to use the wok ring. I have gas, and the ring can go either direction, with the big side up or down, which puts the wok closer to or further from the flame. I would think that having the wok closer to the flame would be better, but then the heat from the flames want to come out through the holes on the wok ring (not the flames themselves, just the heat). What should I do?

Kiku - I found Yan-Kit So's book on Chinese cooking published by Dorling Kindersley (and almost always in print) very useful years ago. I gather from your post that you have a gas cooker, so that's a major hurdle already overcome. The next is to establish a relationship with your wok P.S. you haven't heard the last of me on the diary thread yet... but I've got to learn how to transfer pictures from my new digital camera and upload them first. Sorry I didn't see you at Borough. v

Wok cooking is very visual. It happens pretty fast and your hands are busy tossing things around, so I think the judging of when to add the next ingredient, when it's done, are visual decisions with maybe how it smells secondary. You just have to have everything prepped and close at hand. As for seasoning, if you're using salt at all, it usually goes in right at the beginning when you first fry the garlic or whatever; I usually follow the amount called for in the recipe for soy sauce, oyster sauce, the first time I cook a dish. You really don't need that many extra pantry ingredients -- several types of soy sauce, maybe sesame oil, oyster sauce, some of the bean pastes, star anise, dried mushrooms. Also, Chinese-style rice is really easy to make and can be done in a pot without a rice cooker. Chinese slow-cooked casserole dishes are great in the winter, as are steamed foods, and I think you can make these taste better at home than they do in most restaurants. If you can find a copy of Irene Kuo's The Key to Chinese Cooking, it's a great book to learn from. (edit: right on cue, Jinmyo)

The food diary thread (keep them coming) has got me thinking about my relationship to Asian (particularly Chinese) food. [i'm not going to start trying to make sushi at home except maybe as an entertainment.] Although I think its incidence may have been exaggerated over the past couple of weeks, it's clear to me that Chinese and related cuisine is a very regular part of my diet, but that I almost never attempt to cook it at home. There are a couple of reasons for this. Firstly, experience: I am confident I know more or less what I'm doing with European dishes generally. Meats and fish turn out fine, pasta and risotto probably better than the average decent restaurant over here (although some notches below the best). On the other hand, my occasional attempts at Chinese dishes are unarguably worse than the average decent restaurant. Of course, this is related to the relatively tiny amount of experience I have. The main issue here is fear of the wok. This may be partly rational, viz. the widespread line that you can't cook well with a wok on a domestic gas hob. Related to this is the speed of cooking: I am used to tasting throughout the process and adjusting amounts, speed and heat accordingly. Wok-cooking seems more like Superman in the telephone kiosk: when do you get to respond to what's happening? Then there's the sheer number of ingredients that seem to be involved in many Chinese recipes, versus European ones. Concerns here include both managing the increased number of variables and simply managing to control a decent larder of useable ingredients. Then there's the fact I don't have a rice cooker ... Firstly, then, is this something I should be pursuing, or is it best left to the several good-to-very-good restaurants within comfortable walking distance of where I live? And if so, am I best just continuing to bash along until I improve, in which case can somebody recommend a good book to work through, or should I think about an evening course or something?

Alan and I had recently a balti dish at a restaurant named Gandhi on 30th Avenue in Astoria. It was chunks of lamb cooked in a intense, thick, dark brown sauce, served in a kadhai(called a wok on the menu.) The dish came with naan and a mildly sweet raita. We also had a freshly made okra dish, and tandoori shrimp that had been butterflied and skillfully cooked so that they remained moist. We both had copious serivings of kheer for dessert. All the dishes were carefully prepared and served and although the decor is modest, there seems to be real pride in the kitchen. We are looking forward to going back.

The competition is extraordinarily profuse: within a couple of minute's walk of Pizza Metro, there is off the top of my head Buona Sera (pizza and pasta); Zizzi (pizza and pasta); Strada (pizza and pasta); the place whose name I can't remember that has replaced Wok Wok (pizza and pasta); another two minutes gives you Need the Dough (pizza); PizzaExpress (pizza) ... and probably several others I have forgotten.

Most restaurants calling themselves Balti Houses are indeed outside of London mainly in the Midlands and the North of England. Basically it was a way for bog standard curry houses to re-invent and re-market themselves as there is fierce competition between them in some of these cities. Balti cuisine isn't a cuisine at all and the term doesn't indicate quality in the slightest. Nearly all Indian restaurants in the UK have used woks in their kitchens since they opened. It's just that some bright spark had the idea to use the word for wok as a way of describing the restaurant and then going on to pretend that it denoted a different type of cooking. It doesn't. Steve, I'd be wary of the Lahore Kebab House if I were you. Its been shut down and fined by environmental health inspectors several times over the years and twice this year. Go to New Tayyabs up the road instead. We go there twice a week and know the owners well. If you're interested I'll take you there next time you're over.

Well that might be the case as well but I think the chefs had to come before the baltis don't you think? Unless chefs from a different part of the sub-continent started using baltis and thought they were originally from that region. I've been to Lahore Kabob House and it didn't make quite the impression on me that it seems to make on other people. But that was many years ago, maybe 5. I should go again when I'm in London next. A few years ago I did business with a company in Birmingham and when I asked them about Balti cuisine, they sent me a balti as a gift and I have it hear somewhere. But it looks like a small wok. I think in order to have the real deal you need to go to Birmingham.

I always understood this to be the case. But I understood that the reason they called it Balti was because the chefs were from that region. We had the same thing in the U.S. with Cantonese Cuisine. The chefs might have been from Canton, but the original cooking style they invented was Cantonese/American. But Americans used to think of things like Shrimp in Lobster Sauce as "Cantonese." Interesting, and I thought it was because of the word "balti" meaning wok and that most of this style of cooking is done in a WOK. Have you tried it? How similar or different do you feel it is from the traditional style of cooking Indian food?

Balti cooking, which has gained popularity in the UK, is one of my favorite forms of cooking. It gets its name from "Balti" which literally translates to bucket in India. The cooking is an indian /pakistani style of cooking that uses the wok or Balti as the main utensil One myth is that Balti originated from Baltistan, a place in the is situated in the dry arid Karakoram mountains between the international borders of China & the northern sector of the disputed "Kashmir" territories of India & Pakistan. I was informed of this by a friend who is from the Baltistan area. My family is from Multan originally, a close neighbor. Balti cooking was created, it is my understanding in the UK. There are some wonderful Balti sites and recipes out there. I have eaten some prepared at the homes of friends here, but alas have never been to the UK to taste the magic there Simon, can you tell us a bit more on this cuisine? Does anyone have recipes they would like to share?

A great pan sauce can be made for pork by deglazing the pan after sauteing chops with bourbon, adding shallot, dijon mustard, honey, a little stock and heavy cream. Also for Jaybee's honey and grapefruit, I had an excellent salad once of wok seared diver scallops served over chicory and radicchio with section of grapefruit in a warm honey balsamic vinagrette. My favorites are Tupelo, Orange Blossom, and a local honey made in the southend of Louisville where the bees are on tulip poplars and the honey comes out almost as dark as sorghum.

I really love those dry sauteed string beans. Also, believe it or not, the string beans in garlic sauce are even better than you'd think possible. The 24st street and 9th Avenue branch delivers to my apartment. The food comes in terrific containers and retains a lot of its just wokked characteristics and they're quick, too. Thats definitely going to be my downfall.

I have heard great things about Susur Lee's food and little about Ming's. Personally I have tried neither. I'd like to. As for fusion food, I like it when it is good and not when it isn't. More often than not, I find it silly. My prototypical negative reaction comes when I encounter a Peking Duck variation served with pancakes that don't function for wrapping up the duck, but just kind of sit there waiting for the diner to figure out what they're about. This is annoying. I recently facetiously suggested to a chef friend that he had forgotten the maple syrup! Take me to Susanah Foo's in Philadelphia and I'd be quite excited. By the way it's nice to attribute this trend to Ken Hom, but in fact, fusion cooking was a part of the scene in HK for many years before the current trend. By the way, I have a way of thinking about fusion food that you may find interesting. I tend to put it into two categories. The first is a chef who essentially cooks with western methods, using reductions, wine, saute pans, butter etc. and introduces Asian ingredients into his recipes. I have found Wolfgang's Chinoise on Main to be this kind of restauarant. The second category is the one where the food is prepared in a more typical Asian way, in woks, with vegetable oil, etc., but adding in some Western ingredients. Of course none of this is black and white, there is considerable crossover, but I find this a helpful and valid way to think about it. Ed

A few thoughts about desserts and the Chinese kitchen. There is a substantial difference in the foodways associated with Western and Chinese sweets. When you start to think about what we in the West venerate dessert wise, thoughts turn to great bakeries, chocolate makers, and wonderful ice creams and similar concoctions. I think that there are some really important points to be made right at the beginning of a discussion aboout Chinese desserts. Chinese food has developed with with a emphasis on wok cookery. It use high heat, but for a very short period. With the exception of large, almost communal roasting boxes for barbecuing meat and poultry, we're talking about a cuisine that uses no ovens! For reasons of fuell efficiency among others. So many of our western confections are baked! It's no wonder that Chinese desserts went in a totally different direction. Secondly, we're talking about the world's most populous country where the majority of the people are lactose intolerant. It is a society with virtually no dairy products. No butter, no cream, not many traditions that make use of these or similar products either (even now). We all go to our cupboards from time to time try to prepare a meal from whatever is available. Well, no ovens and no dairy products would virtually insure moving in a direction very different from our Western dessert sensibilities. It is always fascinating to me to go into one of the many Chinese bakeries, where they emulate our Western desserts but do it from a Chinese sensibility/point of view. Some of the items seem almost ersatz, but then there are aspects of Chinese bakers trying to mimic Western desserts, where the Chinese really get it right, and maybe better. They sure are good at making very tender cakes and delicious pound cakes. And their version of "cheap' icing, the tastee cake level, is almost always an improvement over what we're used to on the low end. PS: If you ever eating at Sweet & Tart @ 20 Mott, order their Malaysian Roll. It is a delicious eggy steamed cake that is done jellyroll style and it is delicious.

I think if I start posting here it might encourage me to cook more often. Monkfish studded with garlic, simmered in olive oil with bits of black olive and cherry toms; wok-wilted spinach; spring onions doused in olive oil, salt and lemon and chargrilled. All cooked while reading and posting intensively on eGullet, but luckily nothing went too badly wrong. The end of a bottle of Pouilly Fumé that I had in the fridge. Bought M&S pannacotta, an experiment; rather dull.