albiston

Deirdre, thank you. Your comment confirms my superficial feeling of Italian restaurants. The experiences I had in the occasional visits I make to Italy match yours although I must admit that most of my visits are restricted to country restaurants. My feeling is that the "accused" establishments are to be found mainly in the eating scene of Rome and Milan, at least from what I managed to hear through the grapevine. I have the feeling that GR has a bit of an identitiy crisis. For years they've clearly pushed a modern Haut Cuisine model of dining out, praising to the excess Adria and co and snobbing what you properly call the flourishing middle. Suddenly last year things changed with editorials on "good old traditional food", Trattorie awarded extra recognition in their restaurant guide for the first time and so on. To me this is a bit ironic given the similarity of this "new wave" to what Slow Food has been doing since years, and seeing the recurring poisonous comments devoted to the loved/hated cousins of Slow Food in the monthly GR. The point about the chefs is a good one. What surprises me is that there is no good, not necessairly top, Italian chef that mamages to get some media attention abroad. Maybe I'm wrong and just it's my Italian inferiority complex but I can't help feeling that if Italian food is seen abroad as something nice, pleasant but which doesn't cut the edge when it comes to top-end eating experience it is also because of the lack of a "personality" collecting attention.

It really depends on what you mean under pizza. As you say, schiacciata in Toscana, pizza bianca in Rome, focaccia di Recco in Liguria and Sfinciuni in Sicila are all basically a kind of pizza and they were there before "Neapolian" pizza got to these regions. On the other hand Neapolitan pizza (i.e. a round pizza topped with tomato and other ingredients, with the Margherita as no.1 classic) did indeed arrive from the south, Campania to be precise. A huge amount of pizzaioli who moved (mostly) North come from the small comunity of Tramonti, situated in the Amalfi peninsula. There's always been a bit of tension between pizzaiuoli from Tramonti and Naples, even more so recently because of the "Vera Pizza Napoletana" thing. The pizza romana style I mentioned is, on the other hand, very probably a modification of the original recipe subsequent to the arrival of Nepolitan pizza in Rome.

Adam, a very brief answer: the Neapolitan style is mostly limited to southern Italy. The crispy style is more widespread northwards. It is normally referred to as "Roman style". There is also a Sicilian style, though I'm not sure it is recognised as such, which is much more like a pan pizza. If I have abit more time later tonight I'll try to give a more detailed answer ciao

I hope Marcus doesn't mind if I answer this one. The cherry tomatoes normally used on pizza in Naples are a particular variety that grows on the Vesuvius slopes called "pomodorini del pendolo" or "pendolini". They can be eaten fresh but they can be picked, still on the vine, and left to "age" in winter, usually outside. They become sweeter and have a somwhat more complex taste.

Moby, thanks for the great post, if no one has nothing in contrary as adoptive Neapolitan I can declare the badge's yours . Having spent 15 years in Naples, and tested many pizzerias as you might expect, I tend to prefer "Da Michele" to "Trianon" but even between real Napoletani opinions are divided. There's one detail I was wondering about: how where you treated at Trianon? I always got the impression the people there had no idea of what "friendly customer care" means, probably another reason why I prefer Da Michele. Fior di latte is simply cow milk's mozzarella. No real Neapolitan would call something made without Buffalo milk mozzarella. I know that Michele uses fiordilatte coming from Agerola, a small town south of Naples (Salerno province) renowned for its cheeses. On this topic it might be interesting to share a little insight on Michele's pizza I got from my brother who knows the owners. Since the cheese thay use is quite expensive, Michele doesn't use EVO oil on their pizzas, and for this reason they're not "real Napoletana pizza" conform.

I have been going through the last issue of Gambero Rosso to put together another digest for this forum. Given my limited free time at the moment ít might take a bit, but since the editorial on this month's issue catched my attention I thought to sum up the sense of the article in this post and ask for other eGulleter's opinion. The editorial looks at the situation of Italian restaurants in Italy and what, according to GR, is wrong with them. The first point made is that, at the moment, there is a widespread uniformity in food trends in Italy: hundreds of wine tastings featuring always the same wines, same articles in the press, same dishes popping up in restaurants all around Italy and so on. Since I've been away fro Italy in the past 5 years I admit I'm not completely aware of this portrait is accurate or not (personal observations anyone?) but a few observations come to mind. It is in a certain sense ironic to see GR complaining. They've been arguably one of the driving forces between the widespread interest food has achieved today in Italy and clear trend-setters. It's not their fault if chefs and foodies take inspiration from, or better just copy, what the press likes but they can't deny they have played a role in this situation. Another problem (though also connected to repetitiveness) seems to be where Italian restaurants, especially the "middle-field" ones are taking their inspiration. Too many chefs try to imitate sheepishly fashionable foreign trends, raw food the latest ones. This, the article points out (with a little attack at the NY eating-out scene), is a mere desire to impress the customer at superficial level. If most Italian restaurants would take the bother to properly prepare the Italian classics (pastas, traditional pizza, gelato) many costumers would be happier especially foreign tourists. I'm a bit unsure about this one. The point about Italian restaurants offering well made traditional dishes is something I've read from other eGulleters before, and it certainly it is a good one. What I'm more doubtfull about is the point about international influences. It sometimes annoys me to read both in the press and Italian food forums how little opening there is to other cuisines. I can understand that looking to NYC for the trend of the mont is seen as silly, simply because no Italian city has a similar restaurant scene. On the other hand Italian cuisine will have to face the new "stimuli" brought by the many immigrants who're settling in and food writers should be wise enough to recognize Italian cooking is what it is because of the ability to use and make the best of foreign influences (pasta came after all with the Arabs). But that's probably off topic. Finally Bonilli (GR chief editor) takes on the top restaurants. Here what is criticised is not food but rather the PR skills of these places. In his words:"what all of them are missing is a kitchen Pavarotti. The tenor from Modena hasn't been one of (opera's) greats but he was a great communicator." A good point IMO. One just needs to look at the celebrity chefs from Spain, France, the UK and even Ireland. How many foreigners know the name of a single Italian chef? OK, readers of this forum excluded What is the impression non-Italians (I mean those living abroad here) get of the Italian Restaurant scene? And for the Italians: do you feel the situation is well depicted?

Thanks everyone for the tips, copied, saved and printed out. A few might be abit off our way, but you never know Pia, grazie e benvenuta su eGullet. A question about your tip: I've found this restaurant often compared to "Il Poeta Contadino" in Alberobello. "Il Poeta..." has been tipped to me as the best restaurant in Puglia but I've read a few discording opinions too. Have you tried that one out too?

Hallo everyone, I'll be travelling two weeks to Salento, the tip of Puglia, in September and was wondering if anyone out there has been there before and has maybe a good eating out tip. After reading the Slow food Italy guide I have a few places pinned down but any personal experience would be very appreciated. I promise I'll post about the places I visited once I come back. I also have a second question for the wine experts out there. I was hoping to visit one or more local wineries between Leone De Castris, Cosimo Taurino, Conti Zecca and Rosa Del Golfo. Since all are members of the "movimento turismo del vino" (wine tourism movement) they should, in principle accept visitors without problems, but since I'll be there around vintage time I was wondering if that might be a time when visitors are not really welcome. I've visited wineries before but always in more "relaxed" times. Anyone had experiences visiting wineries during vintage time? Thanks!

Dear Mr MacGuire, As a home baker living in Germany I very often turn to US bread books for tips, recipes and inspiration. I still haven't found a European text that compares to books such as "The Bread Baker's apprentice" or "Breads of La Brea Bakery", just to name the first that come to mind. Making the recipes published in books like these has one big problem: how to substitute strong bread flour. Here in Germany (or even in Italy, where I come from), flour sold as bread flour doesn't have more than 12-12.5% protein. Though these flours manage to give decent breads they clearly behave differently than those with higher protein content. Do you have any tips to adapt these recipes? I read somewhere that European bakers usually knead the dough longer and at lower speed: wold that be a solution? Also: would adding pure gluten to weak flour give acceptable results? Thanks

bleudauvergne, I would guess that the problem is gluten content but, in my experience, for quite the opposite reason. Using local flour here in Germany I noticed a similar effect to what you describe (compared in my case to UK flour). As Dan mentioned it is quite impossible to come up with a table comparing flours but the nutrition info on my flour packages give a hint. I was never able to find any German flour (in normal grocery stores) with less than 10.5% protein, which is between 3.5 and 1.5 % more than what's normaly contained in American cake flour. This could explain the rubbery outside and spongyness. One solution could be, as suggested by many German cake recipes, to substitute enough flour with wheat (potato and corn also) starch so that the total protein content goes down to 7-9%. It works quite well for me.

2002 Alsace Pinot Noir, Joseph Cattin I ran across this wine by mere chance. I was looking for something new to try, and to go with the rather warm weather of last week, and the owner of my local wine store tipped this one as a pleasant light red. Vivid light cherry colour. Very clean aroma of cherry followed by lighter raspberry and a subtle floral note to finish. Light bodied but very well balanced showing, considering the wine type, a rather long finish. The tip was a definitely a good one. This is a wine I’d like to have more of when summer comes. Fresh and light without any rough edges, a wine I'd offer to someone to convince them that there's more to wine than over-extracted Cabernets and co. Nothing against full bodied wines, but I like wine in its whole range of "looks". And this brings me to the points question. If I had to grade this on a 100 point scale, using any one of the two methods I use, this wine would land between 75 and 80 points. I don’t really think this reflects the value of this wine and in a case like this the limitations of wine scoring cards very much show up, at least the ones I use. In my experience, only wines with a “big” structure land into the over 85 points range. I find this quite restrictive. There are quite a few “light” wines that are perfectly made and that would deserve a better treatment when it comes to scores. I sometimes think that wines should be judged inside their own category with a properly designed scoring system (maybe such a system already exists but I‘m not aware if there is one). Sure for those who know how wines are judged a light wine scoring at 80 points is a good quality one, but for the wine curious public who just looks at WS or WA scores, without really understanding what’s behind them, such a score might not sound too impressive. This, I feel, also pushes a part of the wine market toward big muscular wines, leaving the pleasant but subtler lightweights behind, which I find a real pity (or maybe not, more for me to drink ). Does anyone else feel the same way? Or maybe you think this is a stupid point? I'd really appreciate your opinions.

pedalaforte, the article gives a few tips for eating out and food-related shopping. In both cases the focus is the typical salumi and stuffed pastas. Good food-souveniers could be some special salumi like culatello (cured pork buttock, the king of Parmesan salumi), spalla cruda e cotta (dry-cured and baked pork shoulder), the different local salami and clearly some good Parmigiano Reggiano (look for different ripening ages, from 24 to 48 months, and the so called "mountain" Parmigiano). A few addresses whose description in the article sound interesting: Specialita' di Parma (via Farini 9) Pasini (s.da Repubblica 83) Casa del Formaggio (via N. Bixio 106) Restaurants specialise mainly in traditional local cooking. So lots of salumi as antipasti, stuffed pastas (tortelli and co) and selection of bolliti (boiled meats). Some eating palces that have a good reputation: Cocchi, restaurant of the Hotel Danieli (via Gramsci 16a), very appreiated by locals with a good wine choice and corresponding proces. Sorelle Picchi (via Farini 27) a famous salumeria and rosticceria (take away) serving all the local classics and with a few tables available at the back. Hope you have a nice time!

How could I forget that?! Jim, you're absolutely right, mosciame is another great tuna product.

I have no clue whether these can be found anywhere in London, but you could just cross out the ones that are: my first pick would be real Sicilian cannoli, in their "da viaggio" or transport version. These are cannoli where the fried dough shell has been glazed with chocolate, to prevent it from going soft from touching the ricotta stuffing. But, since they should be eaten fresh, I don't know if your friends would be ready to buy some just before they return to the UK Tuna products are probably something typical and hard to find outside Sicily. There's some really excellent tuna in olive oil, but what I'd look out for would be bottarga (salt pressed tuna eggs), ficazza (tuna salami) and cuore di tonno (the salt cured heart). A very good producer is Favonio from the island of Favignana If you like capers those from Salina and pantelleria are considered the best in Italy. Caper fruits are quite nice too. There's quit a lot of nice vegetable and fruit preserves. Something that would take little space would be some pasta sauce like pesto trapanese, or sarde e finocchietti sauce (for pasta con le sarde). Almond products is another idea: almond paste to make almond granita or for making almond sweets or if you like something ready to eat frutta martorana, fruit shaped sweets made with pasta reale, a sort of marzipan. ... I could go on quite a bit (winw olives and olive oil, cheeses...) but I guess it's enough . Did I mention I really love Sicilian food?

Taboni, thanks for the picture. I went back to my local store and hey! there it was. For some strange reason Nusspli lay hidden on the bottom shelf while all other spreads were placed at eye height. Makes me wonder if my shop-manager has an issue with nusspli . Stimulated by this topic, I convinced a few friends to organize a small spread tasting comparing Nutella, Nusspli and a local product, Nudossi. It was striking how the tastes differed. The sweetness and aroma were what differed the most, with Nusspli the "mildest" in flavour and Nutella the most "powerfull". In case you're interested in the tasting I put up a short post on Nutella on my weblog.

Somehow related to the Half-bottles thread. I was recently reading an article on a German Wine magazine complaining about the scarcity of half bottles in restaurants. One of the solutions suggested was simply to order a full one, drink what you feel like and ask to take the bottle, remaining wine inclusive, with you. Since you paid for it there's nothing wrong with such a request, the journalist thought. I have to admit I never seen anyone do this and wonder if this was a mere provocation or not. Has anyone seen someone ask, or asked yourself, for a "doggy bottle"?

Thanks to both of you for the compliments. I'd just like to add that if anyone has some interest in a particular article I would be happy to provide further info, work duties and time permitting.

Please, do not add replies to this thread, which is intended as collection of ongoing digests of the Gambero Rosso magazine. If you wish to discuss any particular article or theme please start a new topic. To go the digest of the most recent issue just follow this snapback link ← April '04 Issue In this month's Editorial: introducing the new GR layout. More wine articles and degustation notes and a new price oriented division of wine and restaurant reviews Daniele Cernilli's Wine Editorial attacks the EU, for its blindness, and the Italian political class, for its inactivity, on the denomination problem. (The EU has recently decided that while local denominations are to be protected, like Valpolicella and Montalcino, the same doesn't hold for non strictly terroir connected ones, like Amarone, Recioto and Brunello. These latter ones can eventually be protected from the wine consortiums in question.) Cover story: Il panino - The origins and today: The history of panini and the reasons for today's panini trend. -Milan, the Italian panini capital: A critical view of Milano's panini scene. The virdict: a few really good addresses but also a lot of confused ideas and all at quite high prices Young Italian Chefs: an ongoing series presenting the most promising Italian young chefs -Paola Budel,Galleria dell'Hotel Principe di Savoia, Milano. After a working history Gualtiero Marchesi and Gavroche, just to name the most important, Paola Budel leads the kitchen of the Hotel Principe di Savoia, trying to replace the somewhat old-fashioned with a more modern style. Recipe: L'oca nel piatto (goose on the dish) a creative dish using breast, leg and neck of the bird to create a play of textures and flavours -Davide Oldani, D'O, Cornaredo (MI). Oldani is Gualtiero Marchesi's former sous. His recently opened restaurant D'O, situated in the Milanese hinterland, bravely tries to match high end cooking and low prices (lunch menu starting at 11,50 Euro) by focusing on cheap ingredients and hard work. Recipe: Caramelised onion with warm and cold Parmesan cream -Niko Romito, Ristorante Reale, Rivisondoli (Aq). A self thought cook who recently attracted lots of attention from reviewers and foodies around Italy. Recipe: destructured Pancotto (a classical recipe from Abruzzi) Indovina chi viene a cena: Vyerat and Cracco Episode of the GR organised series of meeting between French and Italian chefs. Vyerat, the king of mountain herbs and holder of 6 Michelin stars and 2 20/20 from GM, meets Cracco, chef of the acclaimed Cracco-Peck in Milan. Vertical degustation of San Leonardo (Trentino) The history of the vinyard and the Guerrieri Gonzaga family Great wines: Barbaresco A chronological tale of Barbaresco's history. From the origins in 1893 till today, passing through the founding of the Cantina dei Produttori di Barbaresco, the first signs of success in the '70s, Gaja's worldwide recognition in the '80s, the growing number of successful high-quality producers in the 90's from Bruno rocca finishing with the Rivetti's brothers La Spinetta. Portraits of emerging producers: Piero Busso,Ada Nada, Lequio Donne del vino, ongoing series of articles presentig portraits of Italy's wine women In this issue Luisa Averna (of the famous Amaro Averna grouo), working at Villa Frattina in Friuli talks about the emotion of working with wine. Chiara Lungarotti describes growing up in her family vineyard and her work today as wine-maker. Elena Perdomini (Podere San Giorgio, PV) about her work as marketing director for the family vineyard and her plans for the future. Wine stories: Chianti Rufina. A look at the less-Chianti like of the Chianti DOCs discussing if the region should remain inside the Chianti denomination or not and how new combined agronomic-enologic studies might bring a change in the wines produced here Food itineraries -Val Venosta, Sudtirol/Alto Adige. -Pollino, Calabria. Parma Special: -Prosciutto di Parma and Parmigiano Reggiano: moving towards higher quality? The article analyses the situation for these two famous Italian products, between pleasant but average "mass products" and the few producers going for top quality. -High quality food industry: A portrait of a the food industries, some of the very few in Italy, producing high-end base products for the restaurant business, -The best salumi from Parma: an article on the best "less known" salumi of the Parmesan traditiond from culatello to lardo, from4 different salami (crespone, gentile, verdiano and pallavicino) to spalla cruda. -The other face of Parma, Oasi di Neviano and its organic products -Eating out: The review of Parma best eating spots portraits a city still much anchored to it's traditional regional cooking, often well prepared, but in most cases excessively priced Wine tasting -Top range wines. In this issue: Langhe rosso Sefile (Nada) '99, Montepulciano D'Abruzzo Villa Gemma (Masciarelli) '99, Moscato passito di Pantelleria Martignana (Murana) '99, Trento Giulio Ferreri riserva del fondatore (Ferrari) '93, Montiano (Falesco) '01, Batar (Querciabella) '01, Collio Chardonnay Selezion (Borgo del Tiglio) '01, Amarone della Valpolicella Acinatico (Accordini) '01, Acininobili (Maculan) '00, Pelago (Umani Ronchi) '00, Montevetrano '01 -Wines under 30 Euro: focus on Veneto -Wines under 8 Euro: focus on Toscana -Beer tasting: British ales Luciano Di Lillo's Contrappunto on Lupicaia and Maremma wines Chef's recipes -Luciano Pompili, from the restaurant Symposim in Cartoceto (Ps) cooks Castelluccio lentil soup with squab breast, tacconi di biada (home made fava flour pasta) and baccala', Cardamom flavoured chocolate tartlet with toasted coffee sauce -Agata Parisella, from Agata e Romeo in Rome, cooks Viole di bosco (ravioli made from bluberry flavoured dough with mushroom stuffing), Rabbit loin with aubergine puree, Sharon fruit and yogurt mousse. - Angelo Troiani from Il Convivio in Rome prepares a gourmet sandwich with coppa di testa (cured headcheese), mayonnaise, scamorza, anchovies and puntarelle (a typical Roman salad) "Tastes" In this issue Cheeses presented by Alberto Marcomini, Italy's first maitre formagier: mountain and goat cheeses with many cheeses form Veneto Book reviews: Davide Paolini (Sole 24ore gastronomic critc) Pasta an Bread A to Z books, Anjali Mendes Indian Cuisine (presented as not only Tajines (sic)), La Crisi di crescita, a book on Fair Trade, Cucinare nelle Dolomiti, aboutSudtirol's cuisine, and two music and food books: Ensaladas e Pasticci (Rollin), a book about classical music and food anecdotes, and Canzoni da magiare (Raganin) between rock and pop and recipes Nutrition A very unflattering article demolishing the Atkins diet As usual the issue includes many restaurant, bar and food-shops reviews.

Though I have been living in Germany for 4 years I haven't noticed Nusspli around, but it must be a local thing. I live in the former East part and here everywhere you go you find Nudossi, a local brand. It's not so cocoa-laden as Nutella but has much more hazelnuts. Sometimes you'll even get a glass with a thin layer of hazelnut oil separating at the top: sounds gross but tastes great. I'll start looking for Nusspli, from your description it must taste great. Thanks for the tip.

Hope I'm not being too hair-splitting, but I have to correct you there. Nutella is an Italian product developed by the Ferrero company. The original cream was developed in 1946, based on the Giandujotti chocolates typical of Turin but exchanging coconut for cocoa butter. It was marketed worldwide as Nutella from a German associate company.

Craig, Great witty article. I really enjoyed reading it. I was wondering if you have information about MiWine. I've been reading about it on the Italian press but haven't really been able to understand what it is, apart that it was created as an answer to the Vinitaly chaos. Do you know if Slowfood still organises food-wine tasting at Vinitaly or if that's now only limited to "Salone del gusto"? They did, if I remember correctly, in the first editions of the convention.

Hi hedoness, having grown up (mostly) in Italy, Nutella is both a sweet childhood memory and a trauma . I always had to fight with my younger brother to get some. Our mother, probably trying to prevent us from eating too much of it, always bought the small, tumbler sized glass. My brother would inevitably be the first to jump on it, grab a rosetta (an Italian puffed bread roll, with practically no crumb) make a whole into the roll and POUR nutella inside the bread, using as much as two thirds of the glass in one go. As you notice thirty years later I still didn't get over it

Susan, I'm not very familiar with the scene in Munich but maybe there's a few infos I can share. Tantris is widely seen as one of the best German restaurants and serves a revisited and french/mediterranen influenced cooking. It's not cheap (menu around 80 Euros I believe) but at this level is not expensive either. From friends who work in Munich I've heard that there are plenty good Italian restaurants there but I have little infos apart that. You might want to look at Gault Milllau's online German guide Munich section. It's only in german though. Concerning which foods to try, given what you say, I think it will not be an easy choice . Specialties are (apart beer) weisswurst, a white veal sausage, leberkäse, a backed meat pate', and unmissable during Oktoberfest Brezel, gigantic pretzles. Have fun!

I agree with balex, salmoriglio is great on swordfish. In Sicily this combination is a classic. Salmoriglio is basically an emulsion of olive oil and lemon juice (plus oftem but not always: oregano, garlic, pepper) made over a bain-marie.

I guess the term "wheat powder" is just a litteral translation of the German "Weizenpuder" which is pure wheat starch, often replaced by potato or corn starch. Have no clue about cream powder. Ah the wonders of cookbook translations !!