Bux

I thought we'd established in La Mere Brazier that the "oyster" = sot-l'y-laisse in French and is found somewhere in the middle on each side of the backbone of a chicken. The "pippicK" which I've always heard as "puppick" is, if I'm not mistaken, the gizzard. I could be very wrong on that as I also have a recollection of that word being used for a human, or at least a child's, belly button. The Yiddish of my childhood was never very clear if only for the reason that it was mostly used in my presence when I was not supposed to understand what adults were saying and at an early age, it was not clear that chickens did not have navels or that I might not have a gizzard.

This was in another thread, but it's a subject that's been on my mind since I've taken a real interest in the restaurants of France. What guidebooks do people rely on when making an itinerary for travel around France or just for picking restaurants in Paris? Clearly the Michelin Guide Rouge is the number one on most everyone's list. It appears that most Americans who are serious about food also consider the GaultMillau annual guidebook. Over the years I've noticed those plaques and decals that decorate the entrances of many inns and restaurants around France. They are meant to connote approval by the various guides and organizations that issue the plaques and most have a year sticker on them. One that has always caught my attention is the Bottin which is quite prevalent, at least in the worthwhile places and it's appearance in front of an unknown restaurant has always made me more comfortable about entering, but I've never bought or used their book. Thanks for letting me know there is a Bottin web site. Bottin rates restaurants form 0 to 4 stars. Along with the address, pnone number, prices, closing days and ratings for food and ambience, (stars and hearts) there's a blurb about the restaurant and a short list of specialties as well as the pertinent info about. The ratings do not necessarily agree with either Michelin or GM. Does anyone have comments on their reliability? I should note that Amat who's been fired from his own restaurant across the river from Bordeaux for not getting back his second Michelin star, has a rating of three stars and three hearts on the Bottin web site and an 18/20 in the GM guide. Michelin is the gold standard and considered the most reliable of all the guides by most gourmets, but this has been only one of what I've seen as an injustice. By the way, it's Thuries, an exceptionally glossy (great photographs, some might say food porn, but I prefer to think of it as eroticism) that seems aimed at the professional sector. Preparation and plating are of the highest quality and intensity. Have you been drawn to any particular chef or restaurant as a result of a featured article or recipe in Thuries?

Presumably you are not talking about the thigh or any major piece of the chicken. How would I know it if I saw it and how is it identified on the menu?

I should note that I may not be Danny's core constituency, but I do enjoy both Gramercy Tavern and 11 Madison Park. I don't really know who else eats there, with a few exceptions, but those few exceptions include those I look up to for advice on where to eat in NY. The tavern room at GT is still a pretty good value. I don't have much to say about barbeque.

Curious and squeamish. Does this offer any explanation. My understanding is that one eats the whole bird, although the feet may be removed and I assume it is defeathered. Once in Japan I ate a small bird with it's tiny bones. It added a crunch, but I can't say I particularly enjoyed that part of it. Of course that does not mean that I wouldn't try it if I had the opportunity, but I would have some trepidation about my reaction. There are many foods I've not eaten, but few that I've refused when I had the chance. I'm not sure. How is it accessed and when is it served? There are many odd parts of a chicken that are small and attached to the bones in such a way as not to be practical to serve. This is in addition to the larger "oyster" mentioned in another thread. I generally pick these off the carcass of a whole chicken when I have access to it such as left overs from a roasted or braised bird. There is a piece of hard fat that I have no use for. I suspect that's not what you mean.

I thought I had posted on that meal, but I can't seem to find the post. It was last November at l'Huîtière in Lille. Here is what we noted at the time. "... ecrivisses et ris de veau in a rich deeply flavored seafood cream sauce. ... exceptional and quite old fashioned without excuses. ... far more richly flavored and rewarding than a contemporary restrained crayfish dish (elsewhere) the day before."

I believe langoustines and/or ecrevisses and riz de veau are a classic combination. It's rich, but no richer than just a larger portion of either one. It's richer yet when served with a cream sauce. I've had cold terrine of foie gras and langoustines. I thought it was decadent.

Cabrales, thanks for posting that info. I recall reading the article, but the details had been erased from memory. My assumption has always been that the napkin went over your head first and the bird was eaten under the cover of the napkin by raising the corner in front of your mouth. Without the feathers, the tail must be minuscule even if as fatty as a chicken's tail. I am reminded of a previous message of yours elsewhere. This is a food that has little appeal to me, except perhaps for reasons of oneupmanship.

Michelin has had those two line comments for a few years now. I think it's been since 2000, but they don't say much about the food and are not as informative as the longer write ups in GM. Of course it's more information about fewer places. Michelin covers about 50% more places. I find Michelin invaluable for it's town and city maps as well. Michelin and their stars are not infallible and it's always nice to have at least one other guide to balance Michelin.

Glad to hear. From the looks of your avatar it appears you're bored and dozing off to sleep.

Foie de chevre or foie de chevreuil would be one thing, but foie gras of either would be something else. I've never heard of either goats or deer being force fed to enlarge their livers. I'd suspect the "gras" part must be artistic license.

Glenn, there seems to be a glitch in the search engine that's been noticed recently. Sorry about that. I believe the threads involving Steve and myself have "coffee" in the subject title, but I'm not sure. I will be less eager to urge someone on to a Sylvia than Steve, but it has more to do with my nature or outlook than my appreciation of coffee. The first thing to know is that it doesn't make a good cup of coffee because it doesn't make coffee the way a hammer doesn't build a house. It's just a tool and it's not an easy one to operate, but when you learn to operate it, you will make a cup of espresso that will just make you unhappy to order espresso in most restaurants. Some may question if that's progress. I'm quite serious. My wife has spent the time to master it better than I have, but she's constantly upset at the lack of consistency she gets. Then she orders an espresso out, and realizes the range of her inconsistency is well above what she can expect in most public places. The thing about being enlightened is that it sets you up for displeasure and disappointment wherever you go. :confused: A cup of coffee is a production now. There are a number of steps that have to be followed to heat up the various parts of the machine if you really want a good hot cup with crema. It's not worth it, unless it's worth it. The problem is that once you get it, you can get hooked. I'm sure there are better machines and better grinders and fresher coffee. There are those who will sell you on the need to roast your own coffee. It never ends, the question is how close to nirvana do you want to get.

Interesting thread. Wilfrid, you touch some nerves here. I resolutely gave up wearing ties many years ago. Note that in my early college years, I often wore a tie and jacket to class and when I stopped wearing ties, some three piece suits hung in my closet until they no longer fit me. For much of my adult life I didn't eat in fine restaurants if only because they required a tie. I started wearing a tie more often again only when I developed an interest in dining in fine restaurants. Partially it was a matter of respect for the owner and staff and consideration of other diners, but it was also in the cold realization that it would affect my service. Eventually however, I developed an interest in the whole fine restaurant experience, just as Wilfrid did and that included my tie as well as my wife's dress and the service and decor of the restaurant. I am rarely offended or jealous when others arrive dressed in an extremely casual manner, however. That they look as if they don't belong doesn't matter to me. At any rate, this is the trend here in NY and moreso in France. At three forks and spoons, it seems a jacket is optional in Paris. Even at Ducasse I am told, "you'd be surprised at how people dress." At Bras, Close des Cimes and Les Loges (Lyon) jacket and tie were in the minority. Another thing I share with Wilfrid is the acceptance of nearly naked women in a fine restaurant and just about any other place. While I'm perfectly happy to wear a jacket and tie, I have no problem removing my jacket if the room is too hot.

Bux, in connection with lizzie's report on el Bulli on the Spain Board, do you have anything to add here? Not in connection with our conversation at Le Vieux Pont. My French is good enough to say who's food I like, but not why or how. We did little more than agree that Adria was exceptionally creative and intellectual. For Nicole, I suppose it was also a way to acknowledge her interest in what goes on outside the Aveyron and for us it was a way to explain the depth of our interest in food in the hope that our coming to eat at her restaurant became more meaningful to her. I can't say I could point at any particular thing we had that I could say was directly influenced by Adria, which may only mean that she hasn't mastered foam yet, or is smart enough to stay away from a technique that seems to make most diners and press focus on that technique. Come to think of it, if her foie gras remeinded me of anyone's it was Santi Santamaria's, but that's likely because I'm searching for a response to your question.

-------------- to continue Based on the pleasure of our previous visits, we had reserved a room for two nights. We visited Conques during the day. It was a short drive no matter how one did it and we followed the scenic route from Belcastel to Conques as recommended on the ViaMichelin.com site. Fortunately it was a little traveled route as it rarely left room for two cars to pass. Much to our surprise the road narrow even further as it led down the hill across the river from Conques and it appeared to leave us in a dead end with only a stone pedestrian bridge connecting to the village on the other side of the river. As there was no room to make a U-turn, we took a deep breath and preceded across. Miraculously fenders and doors made it unscathed. I thought the vieux pont (the pont not the restaurant) in Belcastel was narrow, but his one made it seem like an autoroute. By dinnertime we had begun to look forward to another meal, but this time we revised our eye:stomach calibration and ordered from the two smallest menus which were simpler and much shorter, but offered great value. For 23 euros Esilda had: Fricassée d'artichauts et d'escargots aux fromage blanc et au thyme, huile relevée d'olive noirs et de câpres The artichokes and snails were an earthy combination, but the melted cheese on top added little. Rouget grondin poêlé, boullion safrané aux legumes du pot-au-feu, huile de persel The cauliflower florets went well with the saffron broth, but the diced carrots and peas were not interesting An olive flavored phyllo crisp perked up the presentation however. Le fromage fermier de vache A fresh cheese was served with walnuts and walnut oil in lieu of the cheese tray which was quite understandable at 23 euros. Gâteau aux apricots secs, au safran et au chocolate The saffron worked with the chocolate, but the apricots were too chew and less successful. From the 35 euro menu I ordered: Brandade d'asperges et cabillaud etuvé, jus de cresson, asperges et buerre noisette The humor here was that the cod was a piece of fish and the brandade a puree of asparagus and potatoes. It was an inventive dish with flavors that were familiar comfort food and a wonderful counterpoint to the more creative meal of last night. Filet de truite fario poêlé, pommes de terre à l'oseille, points de choux et jaune d'oeuf a l'huile de noix Filet of pink fleshed trout, (farm raised--we were told that wild trout has become almost extinct) with small potatoes that were hollowed out and filled with sorrel puree. There was an unusual garnish of a thickened egg yolk on the warm plate and points de choux which looked a lot like Chinese broccoli or the tops of young asparagus as they flower. Once again not as challenging as some of last nights food, but inventive and well thought out nonetheless. Fromages du Rouergue The cheese trolley. Crème brûlée à l'orange et au genièvre, pommes caramélisées, crème glacée au café et pain d'épices Shreds of candied orange peel made the custard interesting. It was a nice variety of tastes on a plate and a bit of a mini sampling of desserts

Regarding the veal foot with the daurade, "fatty" may not have been the most accurate word. I meant to convey the richness as well as the gelatinous quality. I've always found something sophisticated about Nicole's cooking even when it was simple. What interests me most of all is not that the food is getting more complex or more sophisticated, but that it's developing in way that shows her interest in cooking. Things were very hectic the first night and we didn't get to talk to her after dinner. Maybe it was good that it was packed to capacity that night as it may have slowed down our servce and let us appreciate that tasting menu. Graham, you mentioned not trusting a place that had no locals or even Frenchmen dining there. The Wednesday night we arrived, the dining room at le Vieux Pont was packed and there was a table of eight that was not staying at the inn. Later we learned that the mayor was eating here (never thought to ask if that was the mayor of Belcastel, Rignac or Rodez) and a group of doctors. I've seen it packed before, but in the summer. When we finally got to spend some time with Nicole and Michèle, we discussed food and our trip. They were interested in hearing about the Domaine de Barres in Langogne and told us it was owned by the Langudoc-Roussillon Regional Council and that the architect responsible for the renovation, J.M. Wilmotte, was very well known. They said they'd have to check out the kitchen there. They also spoke of their visit to Catalunya where they ate at El Bulli and Santamaria's El Raco de Can Fabes. Santi Santamaria, it seems, paid them a return visit. Of course they said we were in for a treat at Bras. I wish I spoke better French, I gathered Michèle at least, caught a bit of the English words or phrases I had to rely on at times, but overall, I think they got the message that we were fans of Le Vieux Pont. We didn't have the veal. I'll continue with our second dinner.

For clarification, it is the trapping and eating of ortolans that is prohibited. I believe it is because they are endangered as a species. The birds are eaten whole head, bones and all. I'm not sure why it is the custom to eat the birds with a napkin over one's head. Possibly it's to prevent photographing the lawbreaker or perhaps not to offend the senses of any onlooker who might object to seeing a small bird being eaten whole. More troubling is the loss of Jean-Marie Amat as chef in St. James. It was my understanding that he owned the hotel and restaurant until the bank (or creditor?) took it over because of financial troubles. At one time it had two stars, but it fell to one star and never regained even two. We've had two meals in his dining room and one in his bistro. We enjoyed all three immensely for what they were and the meals in the formal dining room were all I'd expect from a two star and maybe more. It was a lunch there one year that led us to return another time and stay for a couple of nights to enjoy both of his restaurants on the premises. I always recommended it as a great place to eat when in or near Bordeaux. It is a shame.

Anything is possible and with just one report, it's hard to say anything other than to note that Lizziee's post is clearly not a backlash. She went as a fan and in anticipation of a second great experience.As for American chefs beating a path to El Bulli, it should be remembered that Ducasse was one of Adria's early public admirers. When we were there, we were among the last to leave at lunch and we had a conversation with a manager who, I assume, was Soler. He noted, in response perhaps to some leading comments I made about a NY restaurant, that Adria looks more towards the US, than to France with admiration for our ability to be creative. Bras would not find the same ingredients, or the same quality as easily in Rhode Island as in the Aubrac, but I woudn't argue he'd be a chef if he grew up in Providence, only that his talent would be likely to find some outlet.

This is interesting as I've had my gall bladder removed well over ten years ago. I was given no warning about eating fat, but was told that there's a tendency for those who have had their gall bladders removed, to gain weight. More recently I have made some attempts to reduce my saturated fat intake. Notably I eat less ice cream and cook with less butter, but cheese and charcuterie tampering are still taboo in my eyes. Most of the food we cook at home is sauteed, though as I noted, we use more olive oil and less butter. In no way do I offer this as medical advice, though I'm often mindful that doctors seem hell bent not on lengthening life, but just making it less pleasant and thus seem longer. When I was younger I spent a few years on an "ulcer diet" that has now been discredited. Fortuantely I never held strictly to that either. Your mother's aversion to fish should not be a problem. Your father may have a harder time. There are plenty of foods that are poached in France, but the French tendency is to enrich soups and sauces with a little butter and cream. Although that's less the case now than many years ago. My limitations here are just that I've not paid attention to which restaurants might offer what you need so if I've been to one, I wouldn't remember that feature. I wonder if anyone knows of a French guide book to restaurants recommended for certain diets restricted for health reasons. I would not be surprised to learn that French doctors have totally different theories of what a patient should eat. The closest I can come to offering a suggestion is to note that good hotel restaurants are often best equipped to respond to special requests and needs of guests.

By the way Lizziee, I have no doubt that your last meal at El Bulli was not what we both had in 2000 and that had I had your meal, I might well be a lot less philosophical about Adria's talents. This goes to another thread of how a good or bad personal experience will outweigh all reviews and second hand reports no matter how reliable.

Steve Klc: Based more on what I read than my limited exposure which is just insufficient, I suspect this is a far more accurate statment to make about Bras than that he is "limited" by his terroir. Lizziee, Ducasse's "Turbot without genius is better than genius without turbot," is wonderfully abstract and almost biblical. Read "food" for turbot and of course a genius can't make sustenance from nothing. Ducasse, in my mind, is merely displaying a modesty that plays well in public. Bras' cooking may well be the product of his Aubrac and there's no reason for him to move, nor can we make a case for what his genius would produce had he grown up in the Caribbean or British Columbia, but that genius is an abstract quality that is not tied to the Aubrac and it would be formidable in another time and place, even if not as a chef. That his food is that of the Aubrac is certain, but that he'd be a mediocre chef in Brittany or Provence is something I doubt and I know you didn't say that. The essence you describe is however a product of his history and could be revised given sufficient time. It's not innate, it's something he built. Maybe we don't disagree and are only offering different perspectives of the same coin. Do we define "Bras" by the food we know or the abstract genius that developed the food.

Robert Brown writes: After what Lizziee has written about her second trip, it's a bit hard for me to offer much of a guarantee, but I think my observations of our meal in 2000 are worth noting in this regard. There was a group of hikers and walkers from a Butterfield & Robinson tour who knew nothing about Michelin stars. They seemed to enjoy their evening at least as much as I did and maybe more as they did not have to adjust their perspective about what food should be. Those with a preconception of what great food is, will have the most trouble enjoying Adria. Those with no experience and those with a very open mind should do best. That said, Lizziee's post leaves us open to the possibility that Adria has gone over the top. My guess is that if that's so, it's a temporary exit and he will return to form even stronger. He may always be outside the mainstream and not always in the avant garde, but it's really hard to think he will be irrelevant in the coming decade or longer. By the way, the arduous drive is only from Rosas to the restaurant, 7 kilometers on a road that I believe was paved, but narrow and unmarked. One should stay the night in Rosas, or alternatively perhaps sleep on the beach or pitch a tent. I recall a campground nearby.

FriedaL, I find your contribution to my knowledge of pieds et paquets, as well as chataigne et marrons invaluable.

Langogne is in the Lozere. It's about 50 kilometers northeast of Mende and little further south of le Puy en Velay. Beachfan asked for maps locating the small towns in which we stayed. You can find a nice map showing the Domaine and the Lozere in relation to the rest of France by clicking "Plan d'Accèss" on the Contact page of the Domaine de Barre's web site.

Belcastel is in the department of the Aveyron. The closest city of any size is Rodez, as noted above. There's a map of France on Graham Tigg's site. From there you can click though to the Languedoc and you will find it listed as "Bel" on the languedoc map. I will try to post references on the applicable pages as I find them. All of the towns are in a narrow loop to the southwest of Lyon. We covered a little over a thousand kilometers in about eight days of driving, which considering the switchbacks on the mountainous roads and lanes on which we mostly drove, is not very far.