Bux

This what I first wrote on the subject. "I agree about Gopnik, but more for the culture (small "c") than the food. I enjoyed most of his Paris to the Moon. Was his 1955 New Yorker piece the one that started with the Passard tomato by any chance? It was an article that gripped me until I came to the part where he quoted Hoffman (Savoy, NYC) on Pacaud's use of curry. Everything unraveled for me. The same thing happened when I reread that part in the book. I put down the book I was voraciously reading and couldn't pick it up again seriously. I finally finished it by ignoring the chapter and skipping around until I had finished readying everything else. Hoffman is entitled to his opinon, but I couldn't figure out what led Gopnik to quote it." The rest may be superflouous as it is in honest response to your rather persistent questions and prodding. Indeed, did you expect me to support his opinion when asked to further explain my opinion? Why are you lost when you know I'm responding to your questions regarding why I find his opinion less than one I would quote as expert? First of all, Hoffman didn't mention the flavor. This was a major part of my disatisfaction with the statement quoted by Gopnik. Earlier in this thread I said: "He didn't talk about taste, as I recall, it was all about technique and the audacity of use [of curry] without reading Jaffrey." I've long held the position here that it's the taste and flavor that should count and not whether any French chef observes the techniques applicable to classic Indian cuisine--a cuisine which you yourself have held as far less advanced than French cuisine, without fear of offending. I'm finding parts of your posts on this subject fascinating in terms of successful debating technique, but absolutely disingenuous in terms of the discussion. In fact, here you began this thread by saying: and then very recently in a thread on db bistro you say: Club Gascon and Daniel Boulud's three restaurants could be cited to explain the need for French chefs to go abroad to find willing diners, or they could be cited to show how French chefs have both the backbone and adaptability to please foreign audiences. L'Astrance and Hiramatsu can be cited for the need for French chefs to go abroad or to import foreigners to revitalize the cooking or to show the fundamental strength that exists and allows for inovation and foreign influence. All in all, all four of those indicate that the world is changing and that France is changing with it. I can't really answer the question of the light shining on France and can't predict where others will look, but it's safe to say that those who look at France closely with a bright light and an open mind, should not be disappointed. This is not to discount the brilliant work being done in Spain or the states, but I'd note that these chefs have all been strongly influenced by French cuisine.

This is something I quite understand. There are many countries in which I can't get a room or even find the WC without resporting to hand signals, but I manage to read menus and order food in a way that surprises people. I suspect many of us have similar stories. Many others do not. If this board is a magnet for those who do, I'm pleased for many reasons. Most of all, it's good company. These days French food is far more accessible to Americans traveling abroad for the first time, than it was in the sixties, but no matter where you've eaten in the states, there are things to be learned by eating in France. They are subtle and no food or travel writer will ever manage to list all the little things you can learn by not assuming you're the boss just because you're paying the bill.

It's not it and I would suggest you reread what I've written and re-examine both what I've actually said and how I've phrased it. It's certain not disrespectful to disagree with Pacaud on how he used curry. The reasons a person states would actually connote some respect if that person were trying to establish a dialog. And finally it's certainly not disrespectful to think a chef should understand his ingredients. None of that applies to my estimation of Hoffman's remarks and I certainly didn't lay it out at all as you would like to make it appear I have. Here is what I said and I don't know how you get from this to what you have posted. If the element of disrespect is unimportant, why dwell on it. For me it had importance only in that Pacaud comes as the more highly respected of the two from third party references. I will be happy just to say that in my opinion, Hoffman was wrong and demonstrated a lack of understanding and appreciation of both contemporary French food and that of the last 100 or more years. I've pretty well laid out what I know already and others have posted more interesting information about Pacaud's influences. India has just not had a monopoly on these spices for hundreds of years, but Hoffman seemed to believe they did and that he had the key.

They do imposrt beans. Illy imports and sells its medium roast in beans. Why would the ground coffee be better at the end of the week than vacuum packed whole beans anyway? I'm missing something.

I'm really surprised that dish hasn't gotten more notice. My recollection of it--it may have changed since we had it the week before the restaurant officially opened and the amuse version may be different or simpler--was of conical dessert glass filled with what looked like pudding with a thin layer of cream on top decorated with a raspberry squggle. I was tempted to ask who ordered dessert when it came out. I don't recall foie grass either, but there may have been some diced in with the beef. It was very beefy, but I alse recall diced vegetables set in the aspic along with the meat. The horseradish was very subtle and the "raspberry" was, I think, beet. It's the one dish I think is most successful, as wonderful as the hamburger may be, but it's not on the lunch menu.

Years ago, and it must have been in the late 60s, I had dinner at Relais Bisson on the quai des Grandes Augustins. Michelin gave it three forks & spoons and a s single star. I guess that puts it squarely in what might be the upper middle or even the bottom of the upper range or restaurants and for me, at the time, a bit of a treat in terms of food and a cut more formal than the bistros that fed us most of our meals in Paris. I ordered two dishes that I though would get me the most of the kind of food that distinguished Relais Bisson. Seafood crepes for a first course and sole in a luxurious cream sauce for my second. The waiter politely explained that both dishes came with virtually the same sauce. My French wasn't good enough to know if he thought I was an idiot or just unfamiliar with the food, but I had already determined that the French knew how to cook better than Americans and I had to open myself to the likelihood that they could teach me how to eat in many senses of the word. Sweet wine with Foie gras was something I had read about with some disbelief until I tried it. I think it's become a much more widely appreciated combination among Americans today, but when we first started to order a glass of Monbazillac, Jurancon moelleux or Coteaux du Lyon we'd get very knowing looks from waiters. If I didn't say this, I meant to.It's not really surprising that we have such different opinions on tipping in France. Here at home, I know people who think 15% on the bill without drinks and before tax is more than enough for good service and those who think 20% of the total is expected for routine service. I don't anyone who stiffs waiters, but clearly there are enough of them around as well. I couldn't agree more. Even here in the US, cocktails at the dining table seem inappropriate. I grew up at a time when a cocktail was a mark of sophistication, but traveled to France became an adult just as Americans were learning about wine. Cocktails seem to be making a comeback and I suspect it fares poorly for food in restaurants.

I know of no place in France where the water is undrinkable either for reasons of health or taste. Some years back I found the water in Barcelona (not France, I know) horrible and have not been able to bring myself to try it on subsequent visits. I remember some young French school kid asking for a glass of tap water in the bar at the MIro musuem in Barcelona. When they finally agreed to give him a glass, he took a gulp and spit it out. I wonder if its improved. It the water is usafe doe to microbes, boiling may work. If the water is too high in calcium or other minerals, boiling it will only remove the oxygen and concentrate the minerals. A lot of what people said, and say, about tap water is old wives tales, but if you've been warned about the water, I suppose it's a matter of better safe than sorry.

Stu, glad to see you've got the hang of quoting. This is some pretty interesting software, but it takes a while to get the hang of it. I am always afraid to make too much of a point of the technical features lest I scare away potential contributors. It's nice to have post with "proper" formatting, but I'm a lot more interested in content. We seem to have a farily intelligent group here who can manage to figure out what works best for them in posting and who can manage to understand whatever method others use to organize their posts. So far that works, but who knows, someday I may get up on the wrong side of the bed and try to lay out some rules that everyone will ignore. Write ahead of time and tell them of the situation. Let them know you, and the other(s) would like the surprise tasting menu, but that your mother is a vegetarian (for whatever reasons you care to disclose, including just how strictly she observes her diet) and that she will be with you. Ask if they can accommodate her, or allow you to have the menu anyway. I will bet a significant sum that they will. There's no guarantee and the downside may be that you will obliged to take the surprise menu no matter what your mood is, after they've gone out of their way. You might also phone ahead the day before if you don't get a reply before. By all means, make it clear that your interest in eating there is not dependent on their ability to accommodate you. Didn't you ask about how to get better service recently. One of the tricks is precisely in asking for special service. You just need to ask politley enough to let them know you don't expect or demand special service, but that you care enough to go out of your way to try and get the best you can out of their restaurant. My guess is that they'll at least meet you halfway. Shame on you. Are you eating at Leon de Lyon in Lyon? I think that's been recognized at the finest in town. Have you considered the new Les Loges that GaultMillau raves about in the 2002 edition? I have a sentimental attachment to Pierre Orsi which is almost overly charming. Regretably, certain commitments and a lack of time have kept me from getting better acquainted with the bistros, brasseries and bouchons of merit on our last trips, but I've never eaten poorly in any restaurant in Lyon. Have I mentioned lately how much I am opposed to that?

I can see this is going to be a long thread. That depends who you ask as I've gotten conflicting information and sometimes I've been sorry I asked as once I've been told you shouldn't leave a tip, I'm unable to leave one without offending the person I asked. My French friends, who may not be typical, always leave something when they are a regular, and often when they are not as well as always when it's a fine restaurant. Rounding off to some whole number seems like sensible advice, but I always pay with a credit card and the tip should never be added to the credit card, or so I've been told. Generally speaking, the service in France is 12-15% added by the house. (This service charge does not go to the server. It goes to the house, which is responsible for paying the server a decent wage whether or not the clintele orders caviar or mackeral.) Another two or three percent more rounded off seems to be what I've seen others leave, when they leave a tip, but this is hardly definitive advice. Understand that it's not required, nor done by all diners and maybe not even by most diners. Moreover, I've never been able to reconcile leaving a tip at a restaurant, but not in the dining room of an inn where my bill will be settled in the morning. I once witnessed an American at a fine three star Relais & Chateaux inn try to add a tip to his payment by card. He didn't understand French and try as the cashier did, she couldn't get across the idea that service was already included and that it was not possible for the house to collect money and distribute tips to the staff. (You have to understand that in France that when things are not the custom, they are "impossible.") So I tip the maid, tip the waiter at a restaurant in the city, but stiff the waiter at a country inn, but I've never seen anyone leave money on table in the dining room of the inn. I'm looking to get more help on this subject than I am ready to offer. It is far more customary to order bottle water in Europe than in the U.S. I would say the trends are reversing themselves. Far more people order bottled water in NY today than did 20 years ago and the reverse is true in France. We usually order bottled water in France and almost never in the U.S. I could say that's because we started eating in France at a time it was the norm for everyone to order bottled water or that it makes me feel as if I'm in France, but the truth is that my wife finds she doesn't drink enough water during the day when we're away from home. In NY she drinks a lot of seltzer and prefers bubbly water. She compensates by drinking water in restaurants (along with sufficient quantities of wine to impress waiters on both sides of the Atlantic) and since they don't have sparkling water on tap, we usually order bottled. Perhaps I could have more accurately noted that my pleasure would have been increased with an apéritif. It was just that several parties arrived at one, and service lagged for a short while. I do feel that at the better restaurants, more people seem to be having an apéritif these days. We don't usually have one for several reasons and it's taking me a bit of time to learn where I should order an apéritif and where it's not important. The first time we ate at Michel Guerard in Eugenie-le-Bains they led us into a lovely room with sofas and comfortable chairs when we arrived. I mentally gave them bad marks for not having my table ready and declined an apéritif. How naive of me to even think they were not ready to receive me properly. Shortly after we declined the apéritif they began bringing hors d'oeuvres and amuses and I wished I had a drink. The next time we arrived with friends who also don't regularly take an apéritif, but forewarned by our last visit, we asked for the wine list and polished off a bottle of what was probably a nice Jurançon sec or the house Tursan (with the other as our first wine at the table later) in the salon before we were called to our table. As a result we enjoyed our second visit much more. The Michel Guerard situation is very different from the Roellinger (Bricourt) one, however. Rarely are language barriers significant at three star restaurant, R&C inns or luxury restaurants or hotels. Less and less are they becoming serious problems in France, although not knowing the local language is always going to keep a visitor a bit out of touch or in the dark, but as the French would say "C'est dommage, mais pas grave." I can read about 90% of any menu and 10% of any newspaper, or something like that. Interestingly enough this subject has been discussed on several occasions on other boards in reference to getting a better meal or service in NY. Demonstrate that you are a knowledgeable diner and you'll almost always fare better at the hands of a serious restaurant. If you're not a knowledgeable diner, show that you are in the process of becoming one, by displaying an interest and appreciation for the food. Chefs and waiters are serious about what they do, and will respond favorably to those who take them seriously.As Steve Klc has posted very well. Don't try and impress them with what you don't know and show respect on their terms on their turf. If you want to prove you can dine in the best places in a jeans and a tank top decide if that's your goal when dining out. [That's not a personal criticism. I have no reason to believe ajay isn't an immaculate dresser.] It's an imposition to ask someone else to make your reservation, but if you can get Ducasse to call for you, it would demonstrate that you are a diner to be paid special attention. If you can get Ducasse to take you to dinner, believe me, you'll get special attention. I've dined with significantly less luminous cooks and it's improved my level of dining. I've also benefited from the occasional call, but you won't be penalized for making your own reservation, nor will you owe anyone favors. Back on attire and in response to Fat Guy's comments. While I agree with Klc about dressing to show respect, I will also note that informality has long been acceptable in the countryside especially at resort restaurants where it's often the norm and is making great inroads in Paris, but Fat Guy's point that the French are likely to be better dressed when they're wearing a sweater and slacks than many of us are in a suit and tie, should not be overlooked. Although I try to dress well when dining in a nice restaurant, I've never experienced anything but fine service from a thoroughly professional staff when I was underdressed. I've certainly not had any flack or even arm twisting. In fact I wish the sommelier at Guerard had insisted. Something like "we're going to offer you some fine morsels, you need something to cut the fat" or perhaps "You're going to sit in that plush sofa for 20-30 minutes and stuff your face. Relax and buy your wife a drink you cheap bastard."

Over the years, Jardin Bistro has had mostly native French speakers as waiters.

What was I thinking? Of course I meant one kilo and must have been thinking two pounds. We go through that (1k) in about two weeks. The beans get repacked in glass jars that go into the freezer. The jars come out of the freezer in time to defrost before going into the hopper. I can't say I notice a great difference when a new batch is started. The weakest link right now is probably the grinder. I don't think we're going to home roast. There's just so much time in the day and to many things to do. Miss Sylvia is still relatively new and the brew is a sufficient step up in quality from that produced by the pumpless espresso maker we've had for years that we're satisfied. If we were to regularly get a better cup of espresso away from home, we might be pushed to do better. I suppose we could find a better coffee, although we've tried. I don't know why Illy only sells its dark roast preground in consumer packages. I can find the beans, but only in the medium roast. DiPalo can sell me the dark roast in the bean, but it comes in three kilo (no mistake this time) cans. That's just too much coffee for us to buy at once. I've spoken to Illy in NY and they say they have no plans to introduce whole bean dark roast in consumer cans at the moment. They used to sell it in bulk to Dean & Deluca, but stopped.

Peter, that the most unusual spelling of tsar or czar I've seen. It's also the first time I've heard that version of how the bistrot got its name. Patricia Wells in her Bistro Cooking cookbook, states that the most commonly held explanation is from the cries of Russian soldiers aftern they occupied Paris in 1815. She goes on to note the word didn't enter the language until 1884. Many commonly held beliefs or truths, have no basis in fact, I guess. She offers a few other suggestions. Bistrouille or bistouilleare used in parts of France to refer to a mix of coffee and eau-de-vie or to cheap eau-de-vie. Bistrouillermeans to make a fake and cheap wine substitute out of water and alcohol with flavoring and coloring. This would not speak well for the reputation of the beverages available at a typical bistro. Two web sites, one for Bistrot Lepic in DC and the other for le Bistro du Capucin in the Savoie region of France agree that bistro entered the French language in 1884 and bistrot in 1892. So much for the popular contention that the shorter form is a newer hipper term possibly influenced by American use. They also agree that the Cossack invasion occurred in 1814 and that the Russian spelling of "quick" (in the Roman alphabet ) is "bystro." Peter, I'm afraid my system picks up your spelling rather strangely.

Ruby, indeed it could and I would be the one to call all those places, fakes, but I never meant to imply that people didn't love it. I've never believed that either PT Barnum or HL Menken didn't have their finger on the public pulse. By the way Cafe Sabarsky didn't try to recreate a Viennese cafe around the turn of the century, they did it last year. I've wondered if people can be "nostalgic" for places they nevere knew. I'd think not by definition. It would be a "stage set," but maybe not strange by community standards.

In more recent times, I've had oysters on the terasse at le Dome and passed by la Coupole which seemed to have been modernized since I first ate there. Be that as it may, they were both designed at some time in the style of that time and along the way contemporary touches have been added. Balthazar was designed not to look as it was of its time, but of some previous time and another place. Which to me implies fakery--the opposite of real. It appears to be a copy rather than an original concept. Perhaps it's my post beaux Arts architectural training that has made me so critical of archtitecture that tries to copy earlier styles. It's not just the style, but the patina that is painted in place that seems fake to my eyes. Bucher is not just buying up old brasseries in Paris, he built a new one next to the new Opera. For that he hired Pritzker Architecture Prize Laureate Christian de Portzamparc and his wife, Elizabeth to design the place. It's a stage set in the way any restaurant is a stage set, but its not a stage designer's brasserie. It doesn't have to look like a brasserie, it is one. It's of its time and place. You may not agree on the importance or even desirability of what I see as a more honest esthetic, but surely the concept is not confusing? When I say stage set, I didn't mean it in the sense that all the world's a stage, but as in theater design. Don't get me wrong. I like the places and love the food. I'd never think of letting my purist architectural principles get in the way of my enjoyment. I find Balthazar a particularly handy and useful place to eat. I really enjoy brunch there, even if that's not exactly a tradtional French meal. Brunch never reminds me of a brasserie and Balthazar often reminds me more of a place like PJ Clarke than la Coupole anyway. By the way, are you quite sure all of the fixtures, mirrors and bar are from France, let alone from a brasserie or designed for a brasserie in France?

Here's the menu, if you haven't already seen it. The lunch menu is shorter than the dinner menu. It's Daniel's food, albeit a bit less elegant than as served at Daniel. It's all good. The burger is, I suppose, the one thing that's unique to the restaurant.

Plotnicki-Your definitions are not so much different from mine than they are more detailed, although I might argue that large seafood platters are not particularly Alsatian. That "bistrot" comes from the Russian for quick seems to be coming under question and I recall reading other suggested derivations recently. In any even the tale I like says the soldiers were not caling for food, but a quick drink across the zinc covered bar and the zinc bar was almost, by definition, a requirement for a bistrot. And you wanted it served with aplomb?

I don't think a brasserie cuts it as a bistro just on scale alone and Balthazar emulated a brasserie in its layout and size. Balzar in Paris is a pretty small brasserie and almost qualifies as a bistro, or would if it had a resident owner chef. Ideally, in my mind, a Parisian bistro has an owner in the kitchen and his wife at the cash register in front.

baruch, I didn't mean to imply that you had a weird or unusual definition of salade frisée just that you hold to an exact standard in a changing world. 11 Madison Park is too "a lot of things" to qualify as a "bistrot." I mentioned it as exemplifying the abstract of a brasserie, or would if it had once been owned by a brewery in Alsace. Good brasseries always smack more of central European middle class businessmen's democracy than of French society and culture as well as whatever else I feel I need in a brasserie. Artisanal bills itself as a bistro, but it looks like a brasserie. Does anyone ever think of French food as "ethnic food?" Every now and then I fall into a French restaurant somewhere that seems caught in the 50s or 60s and that serves the last food that could truly be called "French food."

From what I've seen and been told, bistro is the hipper form these days in France. Both are in current use. One Frenchman told me that he thought bistrot was like "ye olde shoppe." I think that's an exaggeration and I wonder if the Academy approves of bistro. Indeed. Exact replicas, while of course real brasseries are originals. As I mentioned, for me, 11 Madison Park is more reminiscent of a good upscale brasserie, although it's not so French. Then again real brasseries in France never thought of themselves as particularly French anyway. Yes. I have been in restaurants in France that were so self conscious they looked as if they belonged in New York. They were so self conscious they were always looking in the mirror. Out of order: Hamburgers? Which they do serve, but the food is good, and so is the atmosphere, but it's a stage set. Lesley, I find the wrong cast of characters to be one of their saving graces. And I see that it's not even one o'clock in the morning.

We've been using Danesi Gold Espresso beans purchased in the 2 kilo bag from DiPalo on Broome Street in NYC. We've tried other brands including the Danesi Brown, but this has been our favorite. Home roasting is a step we don't want to take. We do not yet even have a decent grinder. I have my eye on the Rocky, but we also want to see a grinder that's made in Spain that was featured on a site Steve Klc linked to some time ago. What do you use to brew your coffee?

He's not inhibited by the cultures that grow these spices nor indebted to them in any way except for providing the raw materials. Roellinger uses spices in his own way and his food is far more subtle than the list of spices would suggest. From time to time a hint of an eastern cuisine might pop up, but you never get the sense that he's interpreting Asian cuisines nor do you wish he would. I should not go on as memory plays nasty tricks and his success may grow and be magnified by my inability to get back and by a few meals at the hands of other two star chefs in the region. My overall sense is that the spices never dominated. I take it you understand my tendency to understate when I'm really pleased as in "I wouldn't complain if it ended in a couple of chops from baby lamb ..." Thanks for the web site. It appears as if Les Rimains shares many things with Richeux including a lawn with tables and chairs and a view of the bay and it's long tidal beach. At Richeux we settled in on the back lawn for aperatifs. I asked for a bière and the waiter suggested Heineken, I made a face was about to ask for a French beer like Fischer, when the astute young woman behind the desk suggested a Schutzenberger from Alsace. I got a Schutzenberger, Jubilator. That was a treat. These days they may have something from one of the new Breton microbreweries on hand. The lawn and the clean simplicity of the place, like much of Brittany reminds me more of New England than France which is not so bad when combined with that terrific food. Not all of Cacale, or it's food is so wonderful. In season, the area is also overrun with British tourists of all sorts from sophisticated to boorish.

In the book (this recipe appears to be the one that appears in his Café Boulud Cookbook, although the dish may be served at both restaurants from time to time) he says "The success of the dish depends on browning the meat well at the start and tending the meat during its braising time." The question is whether or not there's a braising time if the meat is not browned. There's no question that culinary terms just like other parts of language, change over time and are frequently used rather sloppily or creatively at times depending on one's viewpoint.

In a more abstract fashion, I feel 11 Madison Park captures much of the real brasserie feel and it does it without ersatz French touches and accents. I seem to recall a good salade frissée there. I think Cafe Boulud makes the best one whether or not it suits your definition is another matter. Places like Balthazar and Pastis capture more of the look, but are a bit too self concsious about how they do it. Sometimes I feel they capture the sense of being in a movie in France. It's a pity that a few of the places mentioned, rely more on being French than offering good food, although I like the ones I just mentioned.

I wouldn't complain if it ended in a couple of chops from baby lamb that grazed in sight of Mont St. Michel, but I suspect it will be all fish until the final course. Shaw's suggestion of the tasting menu is telling, because he's less likely to go for a tasting menu on a first visit than I am.

I wish I could remember where I read an article about pizza in Italy and the pizza maker explaining why beer was the better accompaniment. A rosé is the better choice in Provence or on the Côte d'Azur when eating pizza outdoors for reasons having more to do with eating outdoors in Provence. Sometimes where you're eating has more to do with what beverage tastes best than what you're eating. I'd also suggest that most of our tastes are acquired.