Bux

Everyone is of course, correct. This is a highly subjective decision and I'm probably not going to be your best adviser. I'm a restless sort. Years ago I made it a habit to be on the move in France. I fell in love with the country hotels and inns and enjoyed nothing more than the anticipation of a new one each night. In many ways, living out of a suitcase is a deplorable way to live and I'm growing tired of driving, but much of my time in France is still spent moving around. For several reasons we had at one time given up on Paris where the restaurants are more elegant in favor of the provinces where the food is better and less expensive, but we returned one year and realized how rewarded I was just to be able to walk on Parisian streets. Paris is not NY or London any more than it is France. It's Paris. It's urban and urbane in a way no place else in France is. I like Lyon. I like it a lot, but it's not Paris. My recommendation would be to spend about half your time in Paris, maybe a bit less than half and do a variety of things with the rest of the time. Get a place in different areas for two or three weeks. Spend some time touring in an area either from a base or by using hotels. Time and the seasons are everything. I strongly would advise not being in the Perigord/Dordogne or Provence/Riviera in August because of the level of tourism. Charming towns in the winter become honkytonk side show in August. Paris can be hot and humid in August and overrun with tourists. I'd opt for I wouldn't avoid tourist destinations or resort areas, but I'd opt for one that might be lower key such as the Savoie, Pays Basque, Gascony or Brittany. I have mixed feelings about the Languedoc. The coast is rather cheesey and very newly over developed in most places. We spend some time there because we have friends who live in the area part of the year. The Bas Languedoc and the south coast of Brittany, where we have extended family as a result of our daughter's marriage to a Breton. We enjoy suspending our movement for a short week or so because we have a social life of different sorts in both places. In the Languedoc, we get the chance to cook and shop. It makes the markets a lot more meaningful, but in spite of, or because of, that opportunity, I've been no more eager to rent a place for my vacation. For one thing, I don't really like cooking in other people's kitchens, using other people's pots, pans, knives, etc. It's also worth noting that French kitchens tend to be small and under equipped by American standards. It's also true that in towns of any size, you don't have to cook much as epiceries and charcuteries will have all sorts of things that can be served cold or heated up at home. At any rate, I get the sense that you want to be in Paris, more than you want to be in a rural house. I could be wrong and it could be that the ideal situation would be a combination. Once you leave Paris and the other cities of France, I think you will need a car. Even in small towns where your food shopping and restaurant needs may be met in town, I think you will be cooped up for more than a week or two without a car in most parts of France. At some point, whether you tour or use a rental property as a base in the provinces, I think you will want to see the coutnryside and want a car.

Speaking of the rue Amelot, C'amelot is a gem. Menu choice may be very limited. In fact there may be no choice or maybe two choices for first course, main course and dessert, but you can count on well prepared food and honest wine. La Derniere Goutte is most likely to have a bilingual and friendly person on duty. I have the third edition of Wells' The Food Lover's Guide to Paris. It was published in 1993 and still quite useful. I think the fourth edition was published in 1999, but it's a shame it doesn't get updated even more often. The Food Lover's Guide to France was also a gem, but I don't believe that's been updated since 1987 and is really showing its age in spots.

Phenonmenal. The one boulanagerie Paul I remember shopping in outside of Paris, is in Lille. Little did I know that was where the chain started.

I don't know the names of restaurants that take in foreign cooks for a fee. I've only heard that some do.

I thought I'd missed something when Victor recommeded Can Majo for its paella. I'm sure it's good, but both times we were there, our main course was a rice and seafood dish. Rice and lobster was the one I remember. The best description I can give for this "wet" rice, is that it's wetter than a rissotto but considerably drier than a Puerto Rican asopao. This is a dish I crave, at least when it's well done, and I've have had elsewhere in Cataluyna, including an intensely flavored one at the rather chef driven Sant Pau. Rice with lobster, or other seafood is what I'd recommend at Can Majo, although I haven't had the paella and look forward to trying it someday.

How will you be visiting the other region? Will you have a car or will you be using public transportation? I should think that might make a big difference. Seven or eight days will only leave you a couple of days in each region as well as no more than three days in Madrid if we assume even a half day to travel between regions. The best food for the least money is yet another problem. A hundred euro tasting menu in a fine restaurant (as opposed to a similar meal in France that might cost as much as twice that) will meet that definition, but it may be more than someone might want to spend. I like Donastia a lot. I might run out of other things to do, but I could survive gastronomically eating all my meals in tapas bars three times a day for a week there.

I believe you're talking about L'Ecole des Chefs, which really deals with non-professionals looking to spend up to a week in a professional kitchen. The clients are usually people who have already been diners in this sort of restaurant, if not in the one they choose to spend the week. It's not really a program for professionals although I suppose it may be responsible for some midlife career changes. We've had too thread on the program, the not so aptly titled Stagiaire Recommendations Sought and the follow up In response to queries ......... This program used to be run by Relais et Châteaux and still uses a subset of these restaurants. As for professionals paying, I don't know anyone who has paid to do a stage. Most pros usually stay long enough to pay back their time spent learning, by working for free. I have been told that some three star restaurants do take foreign cooks in for a fee. Cooks I know who have done stages have all arranged for it themselves or had it done by their current chef, by some other connection in the industry or their school.

Louisa, thanks for the correct spelling - stagiaire. I've been corrected many times for misspelling it, even here on eGullet. As for a fee, it's my understanding that this is common. It's not unusual for for a three star restaurant to take in a stagiaire for a fee. More often than not, this is an arrangement between a restaurant outside of France and a three star restaurant in France and it's usually for a shorter stage of a month or two at the most. It's more likely to be a country club arranging for its chef to stage in France than anything else from what I've heard, although I could be off base. A top French chef in the states usually has his own connections and can secure a stage for one of his protégés at no cost. For management, the stage represents a chance to educated and inspire their chef and to bring a bit of prestige to the club or organization. In the case of a top chef getting a stage for one of his staff, it's partially a chance to bring some ideas into his restaurant, but as often or not, it's a reward given to a staff member who's been a good worker. A young cook can also get his own stage if he's determined, but it really helps to have a connection.

Bruce, you should actually skip El Bulli. Let me know your date and I will call and cancel for you. Victor, I was going to say that even in this thread, you can't help but mention the multi-starred restaurants in the area, but you've tipped the scales in favor of traditional and you did say one for one in your opening post. I'll repeat my favorite one-two punch of Spanish food. It was lunch at El Bulli, when they were serving lunch followed by lunch at Can Majo in Barcelona the next day. Can Majo is right off the beach in Barcelona and has outdoor tables which should be reserved in advance. Some simple seafood followed by more seafood with rice with a simple but nice rose or white wine is lovely.

Plattsburgh, or is it Plattsburg, used to have a pretty decent Lebanese restaurant if I'm not mistaken. I'm going back at least twenty years ago when my daughter went to camp in the Aidrondaks and we passed though Plattsburg a couple of times. It wasn't really memorable food, but it was suprising to find a Lebanese restaurant there.

Although my wife and I visit some outrageously expensive restaurants, we don't travel on a very huge budget. I'm not sure what sort of budget you have for food or wine. France is no longer a place where one cannot get a bad meal, but one can still eat very well on a reasonable budget in Paris. There's an interesting wine shop on the left bank called La Dernière Goutte at 6 rue Bourbon le Chateau in the sixth arrondissment (phone 01 43 29 11 62). It's owned by Juan Sanchez, a Cuban American who also runs a nice little restaurant wine bar around the corner called Fish (69 rue du Seine, 01 43 54 34 69, 01 43 54 33 47 fax). The food is quite good and a good value. My wife and I were very pleased with the meal we had there. Juan may not remember us, but if Phyllis is till there tending bar or waiting tables, she probably will and she sometimes posts here. The wine list is short but interesting and there were a few wines available in carafe which might be useful assuming your son is not drinking as well. One place that impressed me greatly for value was the bistro in which Ducasse recently invested, Aux Lyonnaise, 32 rue St. Marc in the 2nd arrondissement. This is good somewhat traditional and somewhat simple as well as a bit rustic, (the foie gras came potted with meat from a pork shin) but exceptionally well prepared food of the kind I sometimes lose hope of getting these days. I can't remember the wine list either, but I see that they had a young Domaine Tortochot Mazy-Chambertin Grand Cru in carafe (half liter for 42 euros). 50 euros should get you an excellent three or four course meal, although you can spend more and there is a 28 euro prix fixe offering which is not bad considering I spent 42 euros and had the plat du jour from the prix fixe. I've been a fan of la Régalade in the 14th arr., but haven't been there in a long time so it's hard to say if I might prefer it to Aux Lyonnaise or not. There are a number of good wine bars in Paris, but I don't know how good any of them are for meals. Legrand (enter via door off the galerie Vivienne, or from the adjacent shop on rue de la Banque in the second arr. 01 42 60 07 12) is a wine bar we've enjoyed for snacks or a one plate lunch. They offer a nice selection of wines by the glass and will open any bottle in the shop for a reasonable premium. Their charcuterie, cheese and salad plates are quite good. At least one of the women behind the bar was English when we were there. Am I on the right track?

There are times when a private message is the best way to communicate. For all I know, you have good reason to request a PM here and shouldn't take my message personally, but I'd like to take a minute to request that members make a good effort to share what they know in public. The public exchange of information and ideas is what drives and strengthens eGullet. This is not an admonition not to use the private message system which is here for members to use as they see fit as long as they don't use it to harass another member. The PM system is yet another strength of the site.

Victor, this is a great topic and another one where eGullet has the chance to lead the way regarding English language information on Spanish food. I've been clear in my posts that although I was seduced to take a better look at Spanish food by the offer of a free room in Donostia and the chance to try Arzak, a Michelin three star restaurant some years back, what solidified my interest in Spain as place to travel on my stomach, were the "inbetween" meals and snacks I've had at unstarred restaurants both expensive and inexpensive. I could say the threads on the France forum are parallel, although I'm not sure they are entirely. France has held a gastronomic interest for Americans and, I suspect for the British, for longer than Spain. There are reasons that would be a suitable topic of discussion in another thread and which have already been discussed here. Traditional French food is nore familiar to Anglos than is Spanish food and it takes some greater exploration to seek our information about regional Spanish food. The search for regional food is likely to be more rewarding in Spain as it's not disappearing as fast as it is in France. We've had some good threads on traditional food and some good threads that had nothing to do with restaurants at all. We need more.

If I didn't express these exact words, they are certainly a part of what I meant by the economies of the times. The reason young people aren't will to do this work for that income is that there are better jobs with better hours and better pay--or at least jobs that appear to be better and appear to offer better hours and better pay.

It seemed to me that there were several logos to be found, maybe not. However I have a feeling I am familiar with this (or these) logos which seem to designate the shop as belonging to some group. Truthfully it does not represent a plus in my mind. I neither associate it with the best or the worst in town although it may be either in many towns. I rather associate this with an acceptable level of bread, but not a great one. Au Pain Doré rings a bell, but I think it may be one of several "groups" whose function overall in the management and baking, is one is still unknown to me.

The resurgence in interest in food in the last twenty years says a lot. Among the things it says is that there was a major decline in the twenty years before that resurgence. The twenty year graph is far more positive than the forty year graph. It's not that simple either. White bread ruled forty years ago with perhaps the baguette as the symbolic figure head. Today the gastronome's bread of choice is more likely to be a pain de levain or maybe even cereal integrale. The food renaissance looks further back than just the early twentieth century for its standards and inspirations. Regional breads are no longer restricted to the regions where they are traditional. Paul, in many ways, is a product of the renaissance as much as it is a symbol of a chain. It offers a variety of breads that make the 1960 Parisian boulangerie look provincial.

I am speaking of France as much as, or more than, Paris. Bread and wine are also metaphors for food and dining in general. My contact with Frenchmen is scattered and not very deep. I am likely to base much of my opinion on second hand stories and on observations of what I find in retail stores. Admittedly, the second hand stories are ones I'm told not necessarily because they're typical, but because they're pointed. I know that mediocre bakeries, both boulangeries and patisseries are not uncommon in Paris and they abound in the boondocks. I don't present my arguments as scientifically based, nor as well researched. In fact both of us probably have a narrow slice of experience and the two of us have different experiences. I have over forty years between my first contact with France and my most recent one. That lends one kind of perspective, but most of my experiences are not long term. You have been living in Paris for a period that is probably greater than the sum total of my visits. You have also surrounded yourself with culinary professionals and that may work as an advantage in one aspect, but isolate you from the common Frenchman. Paris is an interesting city and in a way, one that is in danger of becoming an artificial city. Its essential Frenchness and the preservation of that essential Frenchness may owe much to the foreign population that is drawn by it. Our friends who live in the Languedoc, don't have a bakery in their village. They have to drive to the next village to shop for anything. There is a bakery in the next village that makes an acceptable loaf of whole grain bread. For croissants, an excellent loaf of white bread or a choice of good loaves, they must drive to the nearest town. They do most of their shopping in that town on market day and during the week at a select number of small shops. Many of these shops are doing poorly and I understand the butcher just closed. The supermarket is doing well however. Yes, the hypermarchés in France can be extraordinary markets, but they don't offer the same service or knowledge found in a good shop. In fact, I don't know if I make my point or refute it by commenting on exactly how fantastic the best hypermarchés are in France. Some years ago, I was picked up at my hotel in Brittany by a French chef currently working in NY, but on vacation, for a meal at his mother's house. (The main course, by the way, was a pork belly procured already cooked from a vender in the open air market.) He announced he had a few more things to buy before we went to his mother's house. I was most excited by the opportunity to shop with him and utterly dismayed when he pulled into the parking lot of one of the biggest suburban supermarkets I've ever seen. Depressed was perhaps the better word, but once I'd trudged through the aisles of frozen food and got to the aisle of the seven varieties of garlic and the rows of citrus fruits including those marked as untreated--meaning one could use the zest without ingesting untold pesticides--and got to the cheese and charcuterie, I was humbled and impressed. Beyond the shelves of processed and boxed factory cheese was an array of artisanal raw mild cheeses unmatched in NY's specialty shops, although I suspect it was beaten in some supermarket in a region known for its local cheese. Rillettes alone, from a variety of animals and fowl as well as from different breeds of pig would by themselves, have beaten any offerings of charcuterie I've seen in NY.

I really believe we shold keep religion out of this discussion, but I've been told that god is in the details, at least once. If that's true, all other things being equal, the perfectly round macaron is the most heavenly.

When I first dined at the really top restaurants in NY or France, I was following my interest in food. I rather resented the fact that I couldn't get that food without having to pay for the service and all the other things that went into the price of my meal. I won't say the food and the service are inseparable, but I can say that I now understand the art of fine dining and that while the food in another setting might taste the same, the total experience is also one I've come to appreciate. The French have long been obsessed with appearance, sometimes to the detriment of substance, though I think striving for the perfect macaron is a matter of stylistic perfection without any loss of substance. It's never been a surprise to learn a Japanese artist or esthete preferred French culture to that of other European nations, nor is is surprising see the French fascinated with Japanese arts. The Japanese have developed a form of dining, kaiseki, that may truly be one where visual impression is more important than taste. Then again, I can only offer that opinion as an outsider who doesn't understand and is not qualified to instruct. One is always free to care only about what one chooses. I'm not sure however that one can offer up one's self as evidence of anything other than one's own opinions. I know that I'd want to understand what drives an artist or craftsman and that I'd expect a food writer to enlighten me in such a way as to eventually allow me to form my opinions. If Louisa posts from a French pastry chef's understanding of macarons, it's far more interesting to me than if a hundred people post their opinion that what drives the chef is not something that's important to them. I think we've covered the aspect of diminishing returns so often that no one would need to mention that value at the extreme high end of the culinary world is not proportionate to cost. We already have enough people in and out of eGullet who will tell us that haute cuisine food is not worth the money charged and who need only offer up proof that they can get more food for less money. I'd go so far as to add they can get more food that tastes good enough to eat and which provides full enjoyment. That's the same argument used here to say seconds are better value because they cost less. I won't argue the added value inherent in a perfectly round macaron, but there should be no disagreement that a connoisseur of macarons would appreciate the difference. There's a difference between being a cheap bastard, something I'll readily admit to being, and dismissing the ultimate effort and achievement of a craftsman.

Now I feel duped. I always thought there was flavoring in both the filling and the "cookie." Come to think of it, I'm sure I've had examples where the filling didn't match, but complemented the flavor of the dough. Could I be wrong, not that this would be earth shaking news again? One of the reasons we continue to have confusion between macaron and macaroon, is that the latter is the official translation for the former. Eveyone I know uses macaron, with the single "o" in English, but if you look at Ladurée's web page, they use "macaroon" as if that word didn't already bring to mind a totally different pasty to most English speakers. I also find most macarons overpowered by the ganache or buttercream filling.

Things change. Times change. Inevitable change is often referred to as progress. Perhaps calling it progress is just putting an optimistic face on the inevitable or just recognizing that 2004 is a bigger number than 1950, and thus we must be progressing. Somewhere in his A Goose in Toulouse, Mort Rosenblum details the move from the farms to the city in France between the time of the end of the 2nd World War and the end of the century. France is no longer an agricultural nation but it's self image is changing slowly. The Frenchman eating his burger at McDo on a sesame seed bun with a coke, still believes the French winemakers and bakers know how to produce the best bread and wine, but in fact it's no longer part of his daily life. "Economics," as Jonathan says plays a major role in the changing attitudes in France. The search for a better income has led young Frenchmen way from the farm, and the multitude of consumer goods--TVs, computers, washing machines, refrigerators, freezers, etc.--vie with good food for that income. At one time, a good butcher, baker or restauranteur might have been content to have the best shop, product or restaurant in the neighborhood, city or region, but in today's economic climate, there's both the appeal and possibility to branch out and open a satellite business and if successful, eventually a chain. At the same time, there are more economic obstacles and less economic appeal to opening a bakery, for instance, in the first place. Banks find it far more reasonable to lend a million euros to a guy with a successful bakery who wants to expand his business, than a hundred thousand euros to a talented young man with the dream of opening a bakery and that's just one aspect of the economic reality. Jonathan spoke of the economies of scale that were not a part of life 50 years ago, but are paramount today. From the standpoint of a traveler, chains are either deplorable because of the homogenization that makes travel less interesting, or a blessing that makes meals more reliable. This is all part of the same arguments heard about chain restaurants from those who travel for business in particular. Progress is relative. Approaching the guillotine for the executioner means his work is almost done, but the condemned isn't thinking he's making progress. With 240 outlets, I imagine Paul's is serving hundreds of thousands of eaters and that the vast majority of them are eating better bread because of it. None of this may matter to those dedicated to an Atkins diet, who may consider any interest in bread a step backwards. I don't think an inferior chain bakery is going to put a great artisanal baker directly out of business. The danger, is there is any, is that as the chain grows, its product may deteriorate. The danger might be that the chain can introduce a shop where the product is an good as any around, and offer a greater variety of products at a lower price and thus make it unprofitable for a standalone bakery to compete. Once that's no longer in competition, the chain is free to concentrate on maximizing its profit with what may amount to a captive audience. That's my fear in terms of future quality. As for France, it's not what it used to be. Neither is New York. I eat better in New York City, and for that matter, in most parts of the US, than I could forty years ago and I have a harder time eating well in France than I did in the sixties, but I can still go to France and travel on my stomach, indulge in no other cultural activity but gastronomy and still call it a successful trip.

It's right on the Mediterranean. Beachcomber Chef would be a great book title.

I seem to recall there was some commercial campground nearby, but I'm also under the impression its season was shorter than the one at El Bulli. Ted, what 2 hour drive are you talking about? The town of Roses is about 7 kilomters away from El Bulli. We picked up a young American on our way back into town the first time we were there. He had just had lunch and we recognized him as we passed him on the road, so we stopped. It turned out his girlfriend was working in the kitchen and he was just visiting and dining there. We met her further along the road. It seems they missed each other at the restaurant and thinking he had already left, she left without him. It struck me that 7 kilometers was a long hike after working a shift. That was in the afternoon in the days when they served lunch. I can't imagine walking it at night on an unmarked unlit road.

I don't know that I've had enough to make any king of definitive comparison, but a trip or two ago I recall having a superb chcocolate macaron from Hevin. It would be remarkable to find a better one. A salt butter caramel macaron from Hermé was also memorable, but I'm a sucker for salt butter caramel.

No one should tell you what to wear, although le Bernardin appears to be one of those places that expects male diners to wear a coat and tie. It's one of a handful of restaurants in NY where I would wear a tie myself. I suspect some younger fashionista could easily devise an outfit without a tie that would please the staff as much as any tie and jacket I wore. As Bourdain suggests, it would likely be all black. Black is certainly the safe color for women. My guess is that my wife would choose balck pants and a black top or a black pants suit if we were dining there. She's also been known to wear a dress, but not that often. I would strongly urge her to wear a pink or other bright top. Sometimes that suggestion is considered. The suggestion to wear what you want is not one I'd make in answer to your post. By all means wear what makes you feel comfortable, but you've already expressed a preference to blend in and casual clothing is not going to work to that end. Neither, by the way, will some extroadinarily theatrically formal and dressy gown. While I think khakis are too casual, I might well wear corduroys with a blazer and tie should I feel like going casual. There are fewer and fewer restaurants that require diners to wear a tie. Le Bernardin does not insist on a tie. From their web page (actually opentable.com's page for the restaurant Dress Code: Jacket Required. It's unlikely you'll be refused entry or service in khakis and sweater. Will you feel comfortable? I don't know. Even in NY, there are those who advocate less formal clothes.