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slkinsey

eGullet Society staff emeritus
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Posts posted by slkinsey

  1. Helius, Cuisinart Multiclad Stainless is a very good brand of cookware. Their product information says that it features "a core of pure aluminum bonded to a highly polished stainless interior and a professional brushed stainless exterior." I don't have the exact specifications but am led to believe that it compares favorably to All-Clad Stainless, which would put the aluminum layer at around 2 mm (this seems fairly standard on fully clad aluminum cookware).

    So, my first thought is that your problem is mostly one of technique. However, it is a fact that a full lining on a stockpot or rondeau isn't really a very efficient use of materials. I'd much rather have the aluminum on the bottom of the pan where it will do you some good.

  2. I understand that cast iron is best for steaks. But, what if I want to deglaze with wine to make a sauce? What kind of pan would you recommend for this application?

    Cast iron is good for steaks, but I wouldn't say it is necessarily "best" for steaks unless you want to use a method with constant extra-high heat. I like this method, but more and more I am coming around to the idea that the best way to cook steaks in a home kitchen (i.e., without a "power of the sun" broiler) is to use the French technique: brown both sides of the steak in butter on the stovetop and then finish it in a slow (~250) oven. There is no reason you'd need a cast iron pan for something like this.

    Anyway... regardless of the technique used, I would think you could get a very acceptable result using a stainless-lined heavy straignt gauge frypan or (less preferred) a stainless sauté pan with a thick aluminum base. Both those pans feature a nonreactive cooking surface, so there is no reason to worry about deglazing, etc. I prefer the frypan over the skillet or sauté pan because the lower, sloped sides of the frypan encourage the fast evaporation of vapors from the cooking surface, which helps in the formation of a good crust. However, if you have plenty of room around the steak (a couple of inches on each side) in the skillet or sauté pan, they will work just fine too.

    All that said, there are ways to deglaze and make a pan sauce using the cast iron pan without worrying too much about the rectivity. Just toss in plenty of wine, quickly scrape the pan and then pour the whole works into a nonreactive saucepan to reduce, etc. The taste might not be quite as clean as it would be using nonreactive materials throughout, but the wine spends only the briefest of moments in contact with the iron and any flavors the iron might contribute can me obscurred with a strongly flavored, reduced sauce.

    Another alternative would be to forego the pan sauce altogether and put a thick slice of compound butter on the steak instead (especially if it's anchovy butter!).

  3. What I find most interesting is that this is the second review of Geisha in what? 6 months? When the NY Times does just one major review each week, I find it very hard to justify going to Geisha to re-review within a year, let alone a half-year.

    I think you're slightly mistaken about the Times coverage. The first mention was by Marian Burros in a "Diners Journal" on February 6th. It was just a 400 word entry describing the recently-opened restaurant, not a full review.

  4. Hi, Carp. From a pure performance standpoint, I'd definitely recommend swapping the All-Clad Stainless saute pan for an All-Clad MasterChef. MasterChef has much better specifications. Besides, Stainless and MasterChef don't look that different.

    That said, it would be even better if you thought you could exchange it and get something like a Sitram Catering saute pan. But that might be a little more difficult to get away with. :wink:

  5. So... during part one of our New York City Offal Tour, JJ, Herb and I found ourselves at Landmarc on Saturday evening at around 6:00. The place was already beginning to fill up with patrons from the neighborhood, but we were able to find a comfortable table with a nice view of the room. The place is sort-of "deconstructed-chic," having been torn down to the brick walls and exposed rafters, etc. There are some pictures here that provide a nice look at the details, but don't really provide a sense of the scale of the room. The ceilings are extremely high, and contribute to an overall airy feeling. One thing we all appreciated was the sound level there. With all the exposed brick, high ceilings and other hard surfaces, you'd expect it to be cacophonous. So it was a bit of a surprise when we didn't have to shout across the table at each other. The music (old jazz, mostly) wasn't turned up too high either. Later Pamela Murphy, one of the owners, explained that they had gone to some lengths to install soundproofing and moderate the accoustics. Noisy restaurants is one of my major peeves, so this kind of detail is greatly appreciated by me.

    Since offal was the order of the day, we took three dishes from their "Landmarc specials" and enjoyed them very much. The chef, Marc Murphy, has a real enthusiasm for offal and had a lengthy chat with us about our trip as well as his approach to offal at Landmarc. The "Landmarc specials" section will feature a changing selection of "bistro favorites" and offal dishes. Previous offerings have included things like rognons a la moutarde (veal kidneys simmered in a mustard, paprika and cognac sauce). I'm kind of sorry we missed out on that one, because we weren't able to find any kidneys this trip. Talking to the chef about offal, I got the sense that this kind of cooking is a big part of his culinary soul. Both Marc and Pamela were disappointed that they had sold out of the previous week's house-made head cheese special. I'll definitely be checking their menu page from time to time to see what's coming up. So, the food...

    i6050.jpg

    Boudin noir with French fries, caramelized onions and apples was great. The blood sausage was earthy, the frites were crisp... what more could you ask for? Just good, simple neighborhood food -- and priced to sell at 18 bucks. In fact, just about everything on the menu is a great bargain.

    i6049.jpg

    My favorite was the crispy sweetbreads with horseradish and green beans. I love sweetbreads with a crisp, peppery coating and these satisfied immediately. The green beans had a little crunch to them, and the sauce was just right. All this said, we couldn't really detect much horseradish flavor in the dish. But, now that I think of it, he probably used fresh horseradish, which has a significantly more subtle flavor.

    i6048.jpg

    Sautéed calf's liver with peas, scallions and caramelized onion whipped potatoes was also impressive, and probably the most inventive of the three. I've never had liver cooked quite this way. Rather than the usual "slice thin and sear" technique, which can be somewhat hit-or-miss, Marc had the idea to cook it in a large block instead. This made it possible to put a good crust on the liver while still keeping the center just up to medium rare. As the picture shows, Landmarc's liver has an impressive crust an makes an interesting presentation. The texture was nicely beefy, and the flavor was mild with just the slightest thread of that "liver flavor" to let you know you're eating calf's liver and not one of it's more timid cousins.

    Another great feature of Landmarc is the wine list. When we were first seated, our waiter told us that they didn't offer wines by the glass, but featured such a small markup as well as many half bottles that he was sure we'd find something we liked. He wasn't kidding! This has to be the one of the best-priced wine lists in the city, if not the best. Many of the wines were no more than 25% over retail. We found a half bottle of a nice Spanish red for nine dollars! That's less than many places would charge for a glass. Actually, the folks at Landmarc seem to have gone out of their way to make the pricing affordable. I think it would be easy for two people to split a half bottle, have appetizers, mains and a few desserts for 80 dollars before tip. The pricing, like many of the things about Landmarc, seems designed to attract the kind of repeat business a casual neighborhood place thrives on, and indeed most of the people there seemed to be repeat customers familiar with the restaurant. I'm not sure I agree with the poster above who suggested that there aren't enough people in TriBeCa to sustain a real neigborhood restaurant. Buster's, the sports bar across the street, is certainly not a destination spot and it was doing big business when we left.

    Speaking of desserts, as the Times review mentioned, they are all small and available for 3 dollars apiece -- or 15 dollars for one of everything on the dessert menu. Unlike Ms. Hesser, we thought they were worth well more than 25 cents apiece. JJ, who is a sucker for desserts with acidity, was particularly enamored of the lemon tart and berry crumble. The coffee granita and creme brulee were favorites of mine.

    i6052.jpg

    I'm not in general a big dessert eater, so I thought it was nice to have the opportunity for a small bite of something sweet. Just about the only thing missing that I would have liked to see was a small cheese plate. By the time we left Landmarc, the dinner hour was in full swing and the place was hopping.

  6. Just a nitpick, Sam...  :biggrin:

    It's Filipino food.

    Now, why would people spell "Philippines" with a "PH" and two "Ps" and then make "Filipino" with an "F" and one "P"? :angry: It's... it's... it's like people from a country called the United States calling themselves Americ-- D'oh! :huh:

  7. Well... a good time was had by all yesterday. By following Herb's "walk everywhere you go" philosophy, we were able to consume an alarming amount of offal yesterday. There were some great discoveries and a few disappointments. All in all, a very fun time:

    Our first stop was La Focacceria at 128 First Avenue near St. Mark's for a vestedda or two. A vestedda (strangely listed on the menu as "vesteddi" which is a plural form, and the wrong one at that) is basically spleen on a roll. Thin slices of beef spleen are reheated in simmering lard along with slices ricotta, then stuffed into a seeded roll and topped with shredded caciocavallo, a salty, firm cheese. The result: delicious! And the whole thing only costs around three bucks. The earthy but mild spleen along with the creamy, bland ricotta, the sharp caciocavallo and the lard soaking into the seeded bun worked perfectly. If I lived in the neighborhood, I'd have one of these at least once a week. Traditionally, a vestedda includes not only spleen, but lung as well. According to the owner, La Focacceria made them with lung 40 years ago but something having to do with Nixon that I couldn't quite get a handle on put a stop to that.

    i6039.jpg

    Next, we went over to Elvie's Turo-Turo, a place just up First Avenue at 13th Street serving Philippino food. We had gone there expecting to eat some duck embryo... but, alas, they were fresh out of them. Presumably there had been a run on duck embryos earlier. Who knew? So, after perusing the counter and chatting with the counter man, we got a serving of something that was described to me as "pork heart." This unfortunately turned out to be paksiw na pata, aka "pork hocks in vinegar, soy sauce, sugar, garlic and pepper with dried lily flower." Not exactly offal... Fortunately, it turned out to be delicious and we... er.. forced ourselves to eat it.

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    After eating that, we went back to the counter where we were able to get some kare-kare, which is oxtail, beef tripe and vegetables in peanut sauce with shrimp paste on the side.

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    This was good, but we all felt that the peanut sauce was lacking something to make it more interesting, and the tripe was perhaps too tender. Tripe is a difficult thing to cook just right, I think. You don't want it to be crunchy, but on the other hand you don't want it to be mushy either. Something that is tender but stands up to the tooth is what I generally prefer... not easy to do in a steam table operation lime Elvie's. None of this stood in the way of our enjoyment, however, and Elvies is definitely a cool place to check out. All the dishes are $4.25 with rice.

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    We then decided to walk over to the West side, towards La Luncheonette. On the way, we came upon the Chelsea Market. Having been there recently with JosephB, I knew that the Lobster Place had amazing deals on oysters. We couldn't resist.

    i6042.jpg

    They were selling Kumamoto oysters (my favorite) for $1.10 apice, and Hood Canals and Fanny Bays for 80 cents apiece. We got a half-dozen each of Kumamotos and Fanny Bays. They shucked them right there, and we got them back on ice in styrofoam trays.

    i6043.jpg

    Delicious! Oysters aren't strictly speaking offal, but considering that one eats the entire animal, there has to be some oyster pancreas or liver or something like that in there. Right? Anyway, raw oysters at the Lobster Place is one of the great undiscovered deals in the City.

    Our next stop was La Luncheonette on Tenth Avenue at 18th Street for calf's brains. Yes, that's right... braaaaaaaaaains. La Luncheonette is a fun, funky little place. Although the food didn't thrill me, I have heard many positive things about their dishes that don't feature glands. First we had sweetbreads vinaigrette, an unexpected offal bonus on the menu.

    i6044.jpg

    I love sweetbreads, and this was a good dish... but it didn't transport me the way sweetbreads often can. Cooking glands to just the right degree of doneness is crucial, and in the case of sweetbreads, overcooking can often lead to a slight chalky aftertaste as was the case at La Luncheonette. "Vinaigrette" also led me to expect something other than the thick, creamy dressing that adorned these room-temperature bits of thymus. This is not to say that it wasn't good, but it wasn't something that blew me away. After that came the main event: cervelles au beurre noir, aka "calf's brains in black butter."

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    This was a serious, old-school preparation. Just brains, black butter and capers. It was okay. When brains are cooked this way, they don't tend to have a great deal of flavor. Mostly it's a texture thing, and in this case the operative word is "custardy." A squeeze of juice from the lemon did wonders for the overall impact of this dish. Overall, I felt that this dish would have greatly benefitted from some contrasting texture. In general, when I am eating offal with a soft texture, I prefer to have a crispy exterior. Sweetbreads, for example, are greatly enhanced when they are coated in flour and sautéed until crisp. So, these brains were rather one-note to me. Later in the evening I discussed this dish with chef Marc Murphy at Landmarc, an offal fan and a chef with consiferable talent in preparing it. He, too, expressed a preference for contrasting textures for this kind of offal and was a little surprised that Luncheonette's preparation seemed to simply be "brains tossed into a pan of black butter and capers." He mentioned a brain recipe he had done some time ago where he had treated brains more like sweetbreads... The brains were gently cooked and allowed to cool in the cooking liquid, then they were cut into three sections, coated with brioche bread crumbs, panéed and sauced. This sounds like something I'd like to try.

    Strangely, I didn't feel any smarter after eating the calf's brains, although I did feel a curious desire to chew grass.

    After La Luncheonette, we decided to stop by Blue Ribbon on Sullivan Street between Prince and Spring to see what they had going. What they had going, as far as we were concerned, were broiled marrow bones with oxtail marmelade.

    i6047.jpg

    The marrow was extracted from the bones and spread on the crisp toast along with the sweet oxtail "marmelade." Wash that down with a couple of beers, and what could be better? Blue Ribbon is a really nice, friendly place. No one minded that we were there only to have a couple of beers and splie an appetizer. In fact, several members of the staff stopped by to chat with us about our project and recommend places they thought we might like to see. The marrow bone dish was simple, but it's hard to describe just how great something so elemental can be. There's something about eating marrow that takes a certain part of the brain back a few million years to our ancestors sitting around a campfire, breaking open bones and sucking out the marrow.

    After Blue Ribbon and a short stop at Broaway Panhandler, we made out way over to Landmarc on West Broadway between Leonard and Worth. In many ways this was the star of the trip. We had the opportunity to chat with owners Marc and Pamela Murphy about their restaurant, and the approach to offal in general. The menu features a special section entitled "Landmarc specials," highlighting a selection of offal preparations which change periodically according to the season and the chef's fancy. Marc spoke with us at some length about offal and his affection for offal dishes, and the "Landmarc specials" section really reflects the chef's interest and passion for this kind of cooking -- we all regretted that they had finished out the last week's special of house-made head cheese. Any time a chef will talk with me for 15 minutes about making head cheese, I know he's my kind of guy. Certainly the offal preparations at Landmarc we tried reflect a high level of interest and proficiency in this area. We had three dishes.

    One was boudin noir with french fries, caramelized onions and apples. This was outstanding blood sausage, well spiced, rich and not too crumbly. Paired well with the sweetness of the apples and onions, and of course French fries are French fries -- always delicious if well executed, and these were. The whole grain mustard (something all three of us love) tied everything together. It was fun to try the different elements in various combinations (sausage with apple and mustard, sausage alone, apple with mustard, etc.). I always enjoy dishes that allow/encourage the diner to create/explore. All in all just a simple, peasant-ey dish done very well... and a bargain at 18 bucks. It's not easy to tell from the pictures, but there were two sausages on the plate. Another sausage is hidden away under the apples.

    i6050.jpg

    Another was crispy sweetbreads with horseradish and green beans. Now, this is the way I like sweetbreads! This is one of the best sweetbread dishes I've had in the City. Small pieces of sweetbread with a crispy, peppery coating sat atop lightly crunchy green beans and surrounded by a lightly acidic sauce. I didn't taste too much horseradish, to be honest, but I don't feel like anything was missing from this dish. This is the kind of sweetbread preparation that takes me to other places. I'll have a hard time keeping myself from ordering this one again every time I'm there if it's on the menu.

    i6049.jpg

    We also had sautÈed calf's liver with peas, scallions and caramelized onion whipped potatoes. In many ways, this was the most interesting dish among the three. As the chef explained, the usual preparation for calf's liver is to slice it very thin and briefly sear it. This can sometimes result in done-just-so liver, but often results in overcooked, leathery, iron-tasting meat. You know... the kind we all hate. This method also makes it impossible to develop much of a crust on the liver, because the meat would be overcooked by the time any crust was able to develop. So, instead of doing that, Marc takes a thick block of liver -- maybe an inch and a half thick and three inches to a side -- and cooks it most of the way on one side. This, he assured us, made it possible to develop a substantial crust and hit the medium-rare mark. You know what? He was exactly right. Landmarc's liver had an impressive crust and was not the slightest bit overdone. It was mild in flavor with just a thread of that "liver flavor" running through it, letting you know that this was calf's liver and not it's weaker cousin from the poultry family. It's one of the most interesting calf's liver dishes I've had (not that I've had a zillion of them, but since there is so little difference between the usual preparations there isn't often much incentive).

    i6048.jpg

    I'll definitely be looking at the menu and heading back down to Landmarc for more intereting offal.

    Stuffed from our meal at Landmarc, we staggered onto the train and went North. North to Taqueria y Fonda la Mexicana on Amsterdam Avenue between 107th and 108th Streets. There, we planned to get tacos with tripa (tripe), oreja (pig's ear), sesos (beef brains) and lengua (beef tongue). Unfortunately they were all out of the first three. Undaunted, we put in an order for several tacos de lengua to go. The place was hopping, and I had a chance to watch the griddle man as he prepared what must have been 40 tacos in around 10 minutes. Not an easy thing to do, considering that the griddle is tiny.

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    Tacos in hand, we returned back to my place nearby to eat our tacos sip a few Twentieth-Century Cocktails where were were joined by bergerka and Eric Malson. The tongue was tender, and the tacos were delicious. Even bergerka, who is fairly suspicious of things like tongue meat, had to agree that they were outstanding. Does tongue qualify as "offal?" I don't know, but it certainly is good.

    i6054.jpg

    Taqueria y Fonda is a great place, and I saw plenty of things there I wouldn't ordinarily order (vegetable tacos, for example) that I will certainly be trying in the future. They melt the cheese for the quesadillas directly on the griddle, which I think is a nice touch. Herb ate his taco with great enthusiam.

    i6058.jpg

    Last on the schedule was a mixed grill. We originally wanted to visit La Portena or Argentine Pavillion, but as the hour was getting late we decided to walk down Amsterdam to Pampa. This was a bit of a disappointment. The food was good, but there has been serious decline in the food accompanied by a serious rise in the prices over the past several years. When Pampa first started out, they were one of the best deals in the city, they served beef from Argentina, and they served plenty of interesting things like tripe, intestines, kidneys, sweetbreads, etc. Well, hoof and mouth in Argentina put an end to the Argentine beef. Then, little by little, the interesting meats dropped off the menu. First to go was the tripe, then the kidneys, then the intestines. Finally, about 4-5 months ago, they raised their prices by around 40% and instituted a 30 dollar minimum. I still forget all the changes and go there everyu so often, but I usually regret it. This isn't to say that our meal was bad, per se, but it's not nearly as interesting (or as inexpensive) as what we could have had there a few years ago.

    So... having finally rid ourselves of JJ (:smile:) we were Herb, bergerka, Eric Malson and myself. We had the mixed grill, which consists of skirt steak, cross-cut short ribs, choriso, blood sausage and sweetbreads (would have included intestines, tripe and kidneys back in the old days).

    i6057.jpg

    Everything was good. Pampa has an excellent blood sausage, in particular. Looser textured and differently spiced than the sausage at Landmarc. I also ordered some extra sweetbreads.

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    Pampa's sweetbreads can be a hit-or-miss affair, but this time they were a hit. Nicely crispy on the outside, from the grilling rather than an applied crust, cooked through just a bit more than Landmarc's but not to the point that they developed any off-flavors. Very nice with chimichurri and nice red wine.

    On the side we had marinated lamb's tongues. Tasty and simple.

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    Close to midnight as we emerged from Pampa to find our way home, I reflected that Herb's secret method for eating huge amounts of food in New York really did work. Looking forward to Part 2 already!

  8. If you go into a top restaurant kitchen, such as Ducasse or Craft in New York, they sear their meats at relatively low temperatures -- like, omelette-making temperatures. They use lots of butter, keeping it just this side of brown. There is very little smoke or splatter. Once they have the crust, they throw the item in the oven to finish cooking.

    Interesting. I know that butter helps anything to brown, but I hadn't given it a lot of thought. I bet it has something to do with the fact that the butter solids brown and undergo Maillard reactions. One interesting thing about Maillard reactions is that, if there are other already "Maillardized" molecules around, it makes the Maillardization of whatever you're cooking go that much faster. This is why, when you're browning off a bunch of steaks (etc.), the subsequent steaks take color much more quickly than the first steak.

  9. Although some people apparently don't believe this is true, it is a fact that the seasoning on a cast iron pan can start to burn if the pan gets too hot. This is what is happening when an otherwise clean seasoned cast iron skillet starts to smoke. The solution to this is to use seasoned cast iron no higher than medium-high heat. Anything hotter will damage the seasoning after a while anyway. For extra-high heat cooking, use unseasoned cast iron. This is to say, take extra care to clean the iron thoroughly so no seasoning has a chance to build up. The fact is, though, that extra-high heat cooking produces a fair amount of smoke no matter what you do as the fat and juices burn.

  10. So, at long last, JJ, Herbacidal and I are preparing to embark upon the first leg of our epic journey through New York's variety meats. Thus far it looks like we're going to start with a vestedda (spleen, ricotta and caciocavallo on a roll) at La Focacceria, then somewhere (GSIM?) for some Asian guts, then we'd like to finish the day with a big mixed grill.

    Any suggestions? Can't-miss guts places in the City? For the time being, we're looking for cheap eats guts. The "fine guts dining" trip will be later on.

  11. This is getting into subject matter that is only tangential to Landmarc, but I think if a restaurant has a wide enough range of selections to please most customers in their target demographic, there should be no need to offer substitutions. If you don't want to have the ratatouille that comes with the "lamb t-bone" then either don't eat it or order something else... like the grilled pork chop with sauteed spinach. If you want to have the pork chop but just can't live without ratatouille... then it is available as a side. So, really, this is a nonissue for a place like Landmarc. Take a look at their dinner menu. There's plenty for everyone there, and if someone can't find a dish they're willing to eat as-is, then Landmarc probably isn't the restaurant for them. Given their "mix and match" steak and mussel choices, they seem plenty flexible to me. Plenty of restaurants, especially in larger cities where there are many other opportunities for customers who don't see anything they like on the menu, don't allow or encourage substitutions.

  12. I think after Totonno, L&B Spumoni Gardens should be next, because they are supposed to be a Sicilian style pizza specialist and we havent evaluated a good square pie yet. Its also a 65 year old restaurant (1939), so while it is not in the same coal oven genre as the others, it should be recognized as one of the original NYC pizza places nevertheless.

    http://www.spumonigardens.com/

    I'm pretty sure I said something about this early in the thread, but it bears restating more clearly. . . We decided as a group early on that it made sense to visit the most famous/legendary NYC pizzzerie first, to get the lay of the land and a firm grip on the NYC style. It also made sense to start with the most traditional (and suposedly the best) pizzerie before branching out. From this idea emerged the Big 5: Di Fara's, Grimaldi's, Patsy's (East Harlem), Lombardi's and Totonno's (Coney Island). We determined that we would try to visit these as early as possible in our survey (I also like the idea of a return trip later on for a re-evaluation, but that's neither here nor there).

    So, since we knew where we wanted to go first, JosephB and I have done most of the organizing thus far. Now that our visit to the last of the Big 5 is within sight, it's a good time to look to the future. Joe and I have no interest in being the "bosses" of the Pizza Survey, picking out where we're going to go next and all that stuff. There are plenty of pizzerie around here worth visiting, and hopefully plenty of eGulleters who would like to share their favorite pizzeria with all of us.

    If there's one thing that the Survey has revealed thus far, it's that insider information can be crucial in terms of getting the most out of a pizza trip. So, what I think makes sense going forward is that any time someone has a pizzeria they think we should visit, they should "sponsor" it in this thread, which means several things: A) giving a brief description of the pizzeria, and letting everyone know what makes it so cool that they should check it out; B) detailing any important specialties (e.g., "spicy crawfish tail pizza") or quirks (e.g., "they close at 5:42 on Saturdays"); and C) taking the lead on organizing a trip out there. Forum Hosts such as myself, Pan, JosephB, etc. are always available to help with organization, of course.

    So, having said that... I do totally want to check out L&B Spumoni Gardens. Hopefully we have among our membership some regulars who would be willing to give us the inside scoop.

  13. Let's start a list:

    Totonno Pizzeria Napolitano -- Coney Island May 14, 2004

    1524 Neptune Ave.

    Between 15th and 16th Sts.

    718-372-8606

    JosephB and Donna

    slkinsey and bergerka

    docsconz

    Blondie

    Alacarte

    Pan

    jogoode

    kurl

    phaelon56 (+1?)

    Eric_Malson

    Anyone else think it's odd that their web site seems to completely ignore the original location? I had to google the site to fine this page. Readers may also be interested in this blurb written by some schmo who probably doesn't know what he's talking about anyway.

  14. Allora. From the Harper Collins Sansoni Unabridged Italian-English Dictionary (IMO, the best Italian-English dictionary):

    esprimere v.t. (espressi, espresso) 1 (manifesare) to express: ~ le proprie idee  to express one's ideas; (pronunciare) to express, to utter, to state, to voice: ~ la propria opinione to state (o voice) one's opinion. 2 (significare) to express, to mean: questa frase non esprime nulla this sentence does not mean a thing. 3 (rappresentare) to express: nel paesaggi lunari l'artista esprime la sua malinconia in his lunar landscapes the artist expresses his melancholy.

    espresso (p.p. di esprimere) I a. 1 (manifesto) express, explicit: sono venuto per tuo ~ desiderio I have come at your express wish. 2 (veloce, rapido) express, fast: treno ~ express train. 3 inv. <Post> express <am> special delivery-: lettera ~ express letter. II s.m. (lettera espresso) express letter, <am> special delivery letter; (francobollo espresso) express stamp, <am> special delivery stamp; (scritta sulle lettere Express <am Special Delivery. 2 <Ferr> (treno espresso) express (train). 3 (caffè espresso) espresso. Idomatic expressions per ~ by express, <am> by special delivery; consegna per ~ express; spedire una lettera per ~ to send a letter express; piatto ~ dish cooked upon request

    Note: nothing above about pressing anything out.

    Lo Zingarelli says:

    esprimere o *espremere, *ispremere, *sprimere [vc. dotta, lat. exprimere 'premere (premere) per far uscire (ex-)'; sec XIII] A. v. tr. (pass. rem. io esprèssi, tu esprimésti; part. pass. esprèsso) 1 Manifestare con atti e parole [to manifest with actions and words] . . . 2 Tradurre in espressione artistica [to translate in artistic expression] . . . 3 Generare, produrre [to generate, to produce] . . . 4 *Spremere. [to squeeze] 5 (fig) *Trarre fuori [to draw out] B v. intr. pron [esprimersi]

    espresso (1) o *ispresso, *spresso [av. 1292] A part. pass di esprimere; anche agg.  1  Dichiarato o manifestato esplicitamente [Declared or manifested explicitly] 2 (raro lett.) Appositamente mandato [Purposely sent]

    espresso (2) [ingl. express dal fr. exprès 'espresso'; 1853] A Celere, rapido [quick, rapid] | Detto di cibo o bevanda preparati sul momento per chi li richiede [said of food or drink prepared at the moment for he/she who requests it]: piatto e.; spaghetti espressi; caffè e. [express dish, express spaghetti, express coffee] B in funzione di agg. inv. Detto di corrispondenza che viene recapitata con maggiore celerità e che richiede un'affrancatura di maggiore importo rispetto a quella ordinaria [said of correspondence that comes delivered with blah blah blah] C s.m. 1 (ellit.) [elliptical] Caffè espresso: chiedere, bere un e. [to ask (for), drink an espresso]. . .

    * = parola o accenzione arcaica [archaic word or meaning]

    This is more interesting and informative. Here we see that esprimere word does, in fact, come from the Latin exprimere. We also I think we get the real deal in espresso (2) A, which pretty much tells us that caffè espresso means either "coffee made quickly," or "coffee made at the moment for someone" -- or, most likely, both.

  15. :laugh: Hey... if you Philly folk think Staten Island, a borough of New York City, is a "meet halfway in the middle" situation, that's okay by me! :biggrin:

    Joe, I'm always up for hookey if it means good pizza... especially if it means Coney Island afterwards and then dinner with Russian gangsters!

  16. American Heritage says "ETYMOLOGY: Italian (caffè) espresso, espresso (coffee), past participle of esprimere, to press out, from Latin exprimere : ex-, ex- + premere, to press; see per-4 in Appendix I."

    Sorry... but that's just not what it seems to be in Italian, at least in terms of how the word is used in modern times, and the usage to describe coffee making is a modern one. I checked a good Italian-English dictionary at Barnes & Noble over lunch, and nothing there led me to think that it has the modern connotation you describe. When I get home, I'll post the entry from Lo Zingarelli, which is like the OED for Italian. Until then, we have this definition from wordreference.com:

    esprimere [es'primere]

    1 (vt) (vb irreg) to express;

    (opinione) to voice, express;

    I'm also not sure that their derivation follows quite the way we might think it does. Esprimere certainly seems like it is grew from the Latin exprimere meaning "out (ex-) to press (premere)." This seems reasonable to me. It also seems inevitable that spremere shares the same origin. Now, however, these two verbs do not have the same meaning despite their shared ancestor. So, while "espresso" might ultimately be traced back to a Latin word meaning "to press out" that doesn't indicate to me that caffè espresso in modern Italian means "pressed out coffee." Who knows, though? We'll see what the Zingarelli guys say.

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