slkinsey
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Posts posted by slkinsey
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Based on Sam's graph I would have to infer that New York is the Lake Wobegon of restaurants -- they're all above average.
Seriously, though, this graph demonstrates two effects:
1. The "Zagat effect" -- whereby people are much more likely to send in ratings cards for places of which they are personally fond, which necessarily leads to higher overall ratings.
2. "Grade inflation" -- the same problem we are having in our elite universities, whereby a "C" grade is seen as a negative evaluation rather than as "par for the course."
The fact that they rate on a 0-to-3 scale only exacerbates these two effect. It is well understood by psyshologists that most people are always reluctant to assign anyone a "0 rating" or whatever may be the lowest possible grade on a subjective scale. There should be some statistical weighting of the results to account for this fact.
Furthermore, it is actually impossible to give a restaurant an "average" grade, which would be a 1.5 on a 0-to-3 scale. So, diners are forced to choose between "above average" (a "2 rating") or "below average" (a "1 rating"). The psychology whereby most things are rated as "above average" is also well understood (ever meet someone who described themself or their children as having "average intelligence?"), and so it is no surprise that a "2 rating" becomes the de facto "average score." This should also be accounted for with statistical weighting.
From a psychological and statistical standpoint, there are also probably some interesting things to be said about the anomalous bump at the high end of the curve.
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Decidedly un-Bell Curve-like, if you assume that the average ranking on a 1-to-30 scale should be a 15.
Assuming that 20 represents an "average" (i.e., C) rating, it's a very small standard deviation of maybe 2, which means that it is, in effect, a 14-to-26 scale.
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Welcome to eGullet, Artichoke. Interesting that you went straight for the same dishes as I, namely things like marrow, liver, sweetbreads, etc.
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. . . if the service doesn't improve I think they might struggle in NY.
Whoa. Think about how bad the service has to be to sink a place on the UWS.
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Bux, although we are moving towards topic-drift here, I wanted to respond in a general way to your comments re the star system, more specifically to the jist of your comments that a "three star hamburger is not an equivalent of a three star meal in a haute cuisine restaurant." I agree that there should be some way of differentiating between the two. I also agree in general with your conception of the star ratings. However I'd like to point out that the Times itself is largely responsible for this misunderstanding. To wit:
What the stars mean(None) : Poor to satisfactory
* : Good
** : Very good
*** : Excellent
**** : Extraordinary
There is is in black and white (well, actually black offset in a little tan box... but you get the idea). Given the Times own explanation of their star system, it would seem that Amanda Hesser's rating is saying Jacques-Imo's is not even "good" -- and this seems to be at odds with the generally positive comments she made in her review. That we have certain (Michelin-influenced) ideas about what the stars signify is something that exists in our minds, not on the Times' pages. Now, I happen to agree that the Times at least tries to assign star ratings according to what level of hauteur the restaurant is geared towards and the extent to which that level is achieved... But this practice is not reflected in their explanation of the Times' star ratings.
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What do the owners seem to be shooting for? Do you get the idea that they're trying to have a "NY Times Starred Restaurant" place?
Truthfully, no. I was actually surprised that she reviewed the restaurant. Maybe it got reviewed because it is an offshoot of such a well-loved New Orleans restaurant. The atmosphere is very mardi-gras party and rightfully belongs on Amsterdam Avenue between 80th and 83rd, with Brother Jimmy's, Firehouse, etc. It just didn't strike me as a "serious" restaurant that was shooting for a Times review.
Right. Other small UWS places (@SQC, for example) that would seem more qualified for a major Times review have, AFAIK, not been reviewed by the major NYT reviewer.
Not that I want to turn this into another Hesser meta-discussion, but I wonder if they're throwing her softballs until Bruni is in place.
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What do the owners seem to be shooting for? Do you get the idea that they're trying to have a "NY Times Starred Restaurant" place?
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Neither have I. The interesting (and odd) thing is that there is another Peruvian restaurant in close proximity to Manu.
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ellenesk, responding to my typo of "menu" in another thread brought the restaurant Manu to my attention. This is a Peruvian restaurant on 2607 Broadway at 98th Street. I've seen it many times, and wondered about it.
Here is New York Magazine's little blurb.
I've always been curious, and ellenesk's inquiry shows that I am not alone. Has anyone been?
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You go down that road far enough and everything comes up scallopini.
I bet their profit margins on scallopini are awesome. Have you ever noticed how much more supermarkets charge for pre-sliced boneless/skinless chicken breast compared to the non-sliced kind? Just because it's sliced? It's insane, but it works.
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I wonder if it's a cost-cutting tactic on the store's part?
Why sell one 1-inch thick steak when I can sell two 1/2-inch steaks?
Steak is sold by the pound, though. Usually.
Right, but I suppose the psychological dimension makes it easier to sell two thinner half pound steaks for 9 bucks apiece than one thicker one pound steak for 15 bucks.
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This just in from New York Magazine...
Gumbo Café
950 Columbus Avenue (near 107th Street)
212-222-2378
Gumbo Café’s Dexter Stewart [is] a Nawlins native but no muffaletta snob. Where others insist it can’t be done, he improvises with suitably soft focaccia from Parisi Bakery. A proper two-fisted sandwich, it’s packed with salami, smoked turkey, and melted provolone. The clincher, though, is the finely chopped olive-and-pickled-veggie dressing.Menu also includes things like gumbo and jambalaya.
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One thing I've started to do when making drinks that call for orange juice is to strain out the pulp. I find it makes for a much better texture.
Oh, absolutely! I always strain orange juice.
Pulp mystifies me. I can't understand why anyone would enjoy drinking citrus juice with little spider legs getting caught in their teeth.
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The full federal regulations, which are the law with regard to cheesemaking nomenclature in the US, can be found in the Code of Federal Regulations Title 21, Chapter I, Part 133. Specifically, scroll down to:
133.155 Mozzarella cheese and scamorza cheese.
133.156 Low-moisture mozzarella and scamorza cheese.
133.157 Part-skim mozzarella and scamorza cheese.
133.158 Low-moisture part-skim mozzarella and scamorza cheese.
Right, so according to the FDA's Sec. 133.155© we have: "The name of the food is 'mozzarella cheese' or, alternatively, 'scamorza cheese'."
This is, in my mind, kind of a bizarre thing for the FDA to specify. It's like having one specification for brie and camembert. I also find it incredibly strange that they have an entirely separate specification for caciocavallo and provolone, which are virtually indistinguishable from scamorza.
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In US cheesemaking nomenclature, mozzarella and scamorza are synonymous.
It is? Says who?
The US standards for mozzarella (not that the USDA has any authority in classifying Italian cheeses, nind you) may be found here (warning: pdf). Relevant information is:
- Mozzarella cheese: 52% - 60% moisture and > 45% milkfat
- Low-moisture Mozzarella cheese: 45% - 52% moisture and >45% milkfat
- Part-skim Mozzarella cheese: 52% - 60% moisture and 30% - 45% milkfat
- Low-moisture Part-skim Mozzarella cheese: 45% - 52% moisture and and 30% - 45% milkfat
I agree that scamorza is corresponds to what we would call "low-moisture mozzarella," although scamorza is in general much better quality than what is found as low-moisture mozzarella. That there was already a word for that type of cheese suggests to me, Italophile that I am, that there is "no such thing" as low-moisture mozzarella.
- Mozzarella cheese: 52% - 60% moisture and > 45% milkfat
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Yea, hard to say. Having tasted it raw, Totonno's is definitely the dryest full-moisture mozzarella I've ever seen. When he offered me a piece, I was very surprised at how dry it was. In my experience, full-moisture mozzarella is wet to the extent that liquid will exude from the cheese when it is sliced or squeezed, and it is difficult-to-impossible to slice thinly. However, as you suggest, it may be that it is simply at the lower end of "full-moisture." Totonno's was within the realm of something I would eat raw (if just barely), while the standard (presumably low-moisture) "pizza cheese" is something I would never eat raw.
If this rubbery-when-raw pizza cheese is what we mean by "low-moisture mozzarella," can there be such a thing as "fresh low-moisture mozzarella?" The other question I would have is whether there is, in fact, such a thing as "low-moisture mozzarella." I am unclear as to the difference between low-moisture mozzarella and scamorza, among other varieties of firm, salty pasta filata cheeses.
If Totonno's mozzarella is "high-moisture" (and there seems to be an agreement that it is) then Patsy's is the only coal-oven place we visited that doesn't use high-moisture cheese.
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This was a fun time. Now that the pictures have been posted, I'm sure everyone will be wondering what "Bumbershoot" is. Owen?
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I think there is a bit of a semantic confusion here. Fresh mozzarella may be either full moisture or low moisture. The moisture content is not necessarily dependent on the freshness of the cheese. Totonno's makes their own cheese -- you can't get any fresher than that -- and it is low moisture.
Theoretically you can have the various permutations, but those Totonno's photos don't depict what looks like low-moisture mozzarella. A good rule of thumb is that it's low moisture if you can run it over a grater without clogging it.
Hmmm... if that's the standard, then I revise my earlier statement. That said, this was nowhere near as "wet" as truly fresh (e.g., <1 day old) mozzarella that's just been plucked out of the water. When we tasted some of the cheese raw, it had what I perceived as a distinctly dry texture, but none of the rubbery texture I associate with mozzarella that's grateable to the extent your example implies.
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For anyone in the City looking for Luxardo... I found some at Union Square wines. It was funny...at first they didn't think they had any. Then they thought, "oh yea... that stuff... we used to have that, but I think we're out." Then they found the Luxardo Bitter and thought they had confused the two. I was all set to go home empty-handed (in the booze department, anyway) when I looked up and saw the Luxardo Maraschino on the next shelf up. The next thing out of the salesperson's mouth was, "hey... you use that stuff to make Aviations, right? how do you make those?"
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Yay! Will be trying this soon. What are your thoughts on up/cocktail glass versus ice/old-fashioned glass for this one? For some reason, drinks with significant orange juice always incline me towards ice.
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Like a fine-dining restaurant, he takes reservations so that he can deliver the highest quality of service, consistently....and completely fair to all who enter.
Audrey
I do agree that this is a nice idea, and was kidding (mostly
) about the pretentious part. It not only allows him to make sure that he can give everyone the full experience, but has the nice side-effect of making people feel like they're in on an exclusive thing even though really anyone can come in. -
- Putting DiFara's in the big 5 grouping is somewhat idiosyncratic. The other 4 members of the group are serving one species of pizza, and DiFara's is serving another. The way I see it, the 4 non-DiFara's pizzerias in question are at or near the top of one hierarchy, while DiFara's is number 1 in a different hierarchy.
Oh, I agree that it's in a different heirarchy, and I also agree that it's probably going to end up on top in terms of gas fired traditional oven pizza. I think our idea of the "big five" was simplyto get an baseline idea of what the so-called highest quality pizza is in the City predicated on overall reputation: these are the five places that are most frequently held forth as having "the best pizza in New York." That four out of the five were coal fired places is more or less a coincidence (well, it's perhaps less coincidental considering that it's NYC). I agree, however, that it makes most sense to directly compare like-pizza to like-pizza, and in that sense both Di Fara and Giorgione go into different categories from Patsy's, Totonno's, et al.
- Would it be possible for someone to assemble a master list of what pies were sampled at what pizzerias? Some of the emerging consensus here is, I think, predicated on unlike sampling.For me the survey up to this point has been more one of evaluating the crusts, how they are balanced against the toppings and how the toppings effect the crust (80% of overall importance, IMO). That evaluation is relatively independent of the specific topping featured, IMO. There is no luxury topping that, in my opinion, can be so wonderful as to trump the quality and characteristics of the crust. Beyond that, I think we tended to go with the experience of the people who seemed to be the most familiar with the pizzerie in question when deciding on specific toppings. That said, it's hard to gain any kind of true impression of the pizzerie, especially with respect to their relative merits, without multiple visits and direct like-pizza to like-pizza comparison, I agree. Ultimately it comes down to what is more important to the diner, and I think our groups have reflected a fairly wide spectrum of priorities and preferences.
- I'm shocked -- shocked -- that alacarte was the only surveyor to express a strong preference for low-moisture over fresh mozzarella. I'm doubly shocked to see fresh mozzarella described as more flavorful -- I simply can't think of any measure of flavor by which that would be true. . . . The low-moisture alternative, which has had some time to develop, presents more flavor across the spectrum, as far as I'm concerned. It also melts to a more desirable texture.I think there is a bit of a semantic confusion here. Fresh mozzarella may be either full moisture or low moisture. The moisture content is not necessarily dependent on the freshness of the cheese. Totonno's makes their own cheese -- you can't get any fresher than that -- and it is low moisture.
As for the flavor of the two different styles of mozzarella... mozzarella is a bland cheese, no matter how it is made, compared to the other toppings on a pizza. For me, mozzarella should be largely a textural and mouthfeel element of the pizza, and a bland respite from the more assertive flavors of the tomato and other toppings (and none of these should detract from the crust). Again, however, it all depends on what is important to the diner. Perhaps a strong preference for low-mousture mozzarella reflects a more topping-centric viewpoint than my own. For me, getting a lot of flavor out of the cheese is not my primary goal and I welcome the creamy blandness. I also do not appreciate the "cooked" flavor low moisture mozzarella develops after all the moisture evaporates and it browns under the intense heat of the oven.
That said, I have yet to experience a pizza in NYC that is as austere and zen-like in its use of ingredients as I would prefer. I'd be interested to see what Patsy's could do with full-moisture mozzarella if I could talk them into putting 50% of the regular amount of sauce and cheese on the pizza.
AFAIK, Patsy's was the only place we visited that used 100% full-moisture cheese on (some of) the pizzas, and I liked the cheese on these better than Patsy's pizza made with low-moisture cheese. I'm not sure I'd feel that way if we had combined full-moisture mozzarella with other toppings, though.
- That you need to time your visits to Grimaldi's so carefully in order to get pizza that doesn't suck is, to me, inexcusable. That indicates a level of incompetence so high that noplace with such practices deserves to be on a big-4 or even big-1000 list.Again... clearly the "big 5" list is predicated on reputation rather than actual results. The overall low quality at Lombardi's demonstrates that most emphatically.
As for Grimaldi's... While I do agree that the timing issues at Grimaldi's are a downgrade and feel that there is no rational exuse for this lapse on their part, there are plenty of other restaurants for which we accept similar quirks. The fact is that, if you know what you're doing, it is possible to go to Grimaldi's and fairly reliably get an outstanding pizza. But you have to know what you're doing.
- Kurl made reference to wet pies at Totonno's. Also inexcusable. These people are supposed to be professional pizza bakers. What possible excuse could they have for such a deficiency in the majority of the pies they serve? This is one of several reasons I think Totonno's falls short of its inflated reputation.While the wetness of the toppings at Totonno's is not my particular style of preference, I don't think they're doing it by mistake. I think it's Totonno's style, and for whatever it's worth it doesn't seem to interfere with the quality of the crust (with the exception of the mushroom pizza, where the mushrooms had exuded a lot of liquid and it did maye the tips of the slices soggy). The pizze at Totonno's were no more wet than, for example, the pizze at Di Fara. Does this mean that they don't deserve the "best pizza in New York/no place is better/no place comes close" hype? It's a moot point, because none of them deserve it None stands head and shoulders above the competition. But, based on my one visit I'd say that Totonno's deserves to be held in very high esteem as one of the best pizzerie in New York. If you don't want a pie with relatively wet toppings, don't go to Totonno's. Hey... if you don't want a pie with a 50% charred crust, don't go to Patsy's. I'm not going to tell Patsy's that cooking their pizze that way is inexcusable, though -- and it's not just because I don't want to wind up with some guy holding my hand in the oven.
My own experience in terms of comparing the four coal-oven places we visited is that the crusts are distinctively different but all very high quality among Grimaldi's, Patsy's and Totonno's. Lombardi's first pizza was outstanding, but the others were terrible. Totonno's, for me, comes in third. I'm not sure I could pick a clear winner betweeen the other two. Grimaldi's crust had, to my palate, a better tasting crust that stood up well to the tooth. It is more "wheatey" tasting, and the flavor of the crust is well balanced with the oven char. Patsy's crust is hands-down the lightest crust of all, and very tender. But the flavor tended to be a little one-note compared to Grimaldi's and was dominated by the char. For me, it's like choosing between Jennifer Tilley and Jennifer Garner. Can't I have both?
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This is not to say, of course, that a little bit of pretention can't be kind of fun. After all, without it there would be no fine dining.
Do they make any effort to keep out tourists and "scene types" by prescreening over the phone -- or is that all accomplished simply by the existence of a quasi-secret phone number as a kind of filter? I gather that they use their "reservation system" mosatly to keep the place from getting overcrowded.
$12 doesn't sound like all that much for an expertly-made cocktail when one considers that Per Se is charging $17 and even a mediocre cocktail at Carmine's, et al. will run you $10.
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Copying this in from another thread:
I bought a large Paderno stock pot (their stock pots are not cheap, being extra-heavy stainless steel with a 7 mm aluminum base) and a Paderno-made insert that fits almost exactly into the inside of the pot. I don't remember the cost, but it was certainly more than a hundred bucks.I've been searching Philly for a deeper pasta insert. At Sam's recommendation, I checked the Paderno website. The 5000 series 11-qt. pasta insert is $177 (11.5-qt. stock pot: $214). Does anyone know if there is any effective difference between the 1000 series and the 5000 series?
Some clarification is needed here. What you have referenced is the Canadian company Padinox that makes a line called "Paderno" in Canada. What happened is that the original Italian company at one point sold the Canadian company the right to use the Paderno brand in Canada and make Canadian "Paderno cookware." Padinox uses the name "Paderno" for their lower-end line of cookware and the name "Chaudier" for their higher-end line of cookware in Canada. Outside of Canada, only the original Italian company may use the brand "Paderno" and the two Padonix lines are called "Chaudier 1000" and "Chaudier 5000" respectively.
When I say "Paderno" I am speaking of the Italian company. Bridge Kitchenware is the sole distributor of Paderno Grand Gourmet in the US. It is one of my favorite lines of cookware.
THE BEST: Restaurant Dollar-for-Dollar
in New York: Dining
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Landmarc