slkinsey

You have an oven that can reliably maintain 50C/122F?! That's impressive. I don't think I even know of a home oven that has that setting. Most home ovens only have a temperature setting as low as around 90C/200F. What do you perceive as the advantages of open air long cooking in the oven versus sous vide? I'd be a bit worried about drying and contamination.

Yes, this is how it works. Ethanol and water together can pack tighter than either one can on its own. I should add that the same thing can happen in the other direction, depending on the substances involved: two volumes mixed together can result in a volume that is greater than the sum of the original volumes. The question of alcohol by volume is a difficult one to answer, however. What, exactly, constitutes "volume" in the context of a 1:1 solution of alcohol and water? More to the point, how is this determined? Are we looking at a hypothetical idea where all the various constituents of a bottle of liquor are separated out, measured as to volume and then the percentage of alcohol by volume is calculated on this basis? What basis are we using to determine abv when it's got more than just water and ethanol? What about something like Drambuie, which is comprised of alcohol, water, sugar and various other dissolved substances?

Norman, is this a dish that is baked for a long time at low temperature, which the bbc link provided by Duncan implies, or is it cooked sous vide for a long time, which is implied by the complete recipe linked to by Duncan? If sous vide's what you're looking for, we have one of the best collections of information on the internet right here in the eG Forums. If you're wanting to cook something in an oven for 48 hours at, say, 60C -- I'm not sure this is possible without a specialty oven.

markk, I don't think anyone is suggesting that, in the purely legal sense, the restaurant is not assuming some legal risk. Arguments are being made and examples given for why people believe it is a small risk in the context of NYC fine dining. I also don't think anyone is "giving rationalizations for why it's okay to declare a grey area around this law." The fact is that this grey area does exist. Fine dining restaurants in NYC have been doing it, and will continue to do it for the forseeable future. It is a de facto grey area.

I was talking about this with my father the other day, who is a chemist of some repute. He mentioned that it's not necessarily a no-brainer to say what percentage of a given liquor is alcohol. This is because when two liquids (or two solids, or a liquid and a solid, etc.) are mixed together, it does not necessarily follow that the volume of the resultant mixture will be equal to the sum of the volumes of the two liquids. It might be more than the sum of the two volumes, or it might be less. In the case of alcohol, for example, if you mix together a half-liter of pure ethanol and a half-liter of pure water, you do not get a liter of alcohol-and-water. No, you get 956 ml of alcohol-and-water. This is because equal volumes of ethanol and water will have only 95.6% of the volume of the equal parts of ethanol and water when unmixed. So... is that 956 ml of water 100 proof (aka 50% abv) or not? It is comprised of 500 ml of water and 500 ml of ethanol for a total of 956 ml. In the most literal sense, it does not add up. This is pretty easy to figure out when we mix the alcohol ourselves, but it seems like it would be quite a bit more difficult to back-calculate if you're staring at a 956 ml bottle of booze. If you correctly say that the 956 ml of booze contains 500 ml of alcohol, does that make it 104 proof (52% abv)? Or if you correctly say that the 956 ml of booze contains 500 ml of water, does that make it 96 proof (48% abv)? As you may imagine, when the bottle starts to contain things other than just ethanol and water (i.e., everything but vodka), and when the amount of alohol deviates from the 50/50 example I gave above, it becomes even more complicated. So? How is it done?

I don't think I agree with this at all. I suppose one may say that the government of the United States has decided to take the position that alcohol consumption outside of one's home is a privilege rather than a right. But I don't agree that it's anything like driving a car at all. There is no reason whatsoever that the government should be sticking their nose into what I drink in the privacy of my own home. I think it's also worthy of note that the only reason we have a legal drinking age in this country at all is a combination of the aftereffects of the misguided temperance movement and a desire to reduce drunk driving accidents (with respect to the latter, I should hasten to point out that the same effect could be achieved by lowering the drinking age to 18 and raising the minimum age requirement for a driver's license to 21). Certainly I plan to introduce my children, when I have them, to reasonable amounts of alcohol quite early in their lives. This is commonplace in many countries. In Belgium, for example, it is not unusual for children as young as 5 years old to have a small glass of low-alcohol beer (tafelbier) with a meal. There was even a program in Belgian schools to replace soft drinks with tafelbier!

Well, I live in NYC and I'm not sure I'd be inclined to tip 20% to stand at a bar and eat a panino. Other tipping threads include: Tipping Tipping with Cash or Credit? Is Tipping Big the New Black?

Here is the Wikipedia entry on tannin. In relevant part, it says:

I suppose part of the point I was making is that the percentage of wine geeks among regular wine drinkers in the United States is significantly higher than it is in Europe. I'd say that one degree or another of wine geekitude is higher than 50% among Americans who drink wine more than 5 times a week. I'd put this at less than 10% among their European counterparts. Even the wine geeks I know in Europe, while they may peruse the wine list with interest, are unlikely to say, "I think I'd like this bottle of wine tonight. Now let's see if I can construct a menu around it." A perfect example would be the lunch I had with fellow eGulletarians Eric_Malson and Pelayin at Casa Tataguyo in Aviles (Asturias, Spain). Pelayin is quite the wine enthusiast (we met him at his favorite wine bar in Gijon) and chose a very nice wine for our lunch. Nevertheless, we settled on the food first. and the wine second.

Erik: When you infuse something into alcohol, you are getting alcohol-soluble substances and water-soluble substances. This is because even 100 proof alcohol is 50% water by volume. You would only start missing out on some of the water-soluble substances at very high proof. You'd be surprised how many things infuse very well into just water. For example, in making a lime syrup the conventional wisdom would be to infuse the lime zest into alcohol and then incorporate the lime-infused alcohol into a simple syrup. But, in fact, lime infuses into plain old room temperature simple syrup pretty well. It's not the same as the alcohol-into-simple method, but it works quite well and some people prefer the water infusion over the alcohol one. They don't call water the Universal Solvent for nothing. (Both water and ethanol are polar protic solvents.)

These are all good recommendations with respect to a normal bread dough technique. Experience would indicate, however, that the impact of these additional steps is minimal in the context of a dough that is bulk fermented for 18 hours.

I have to say that I still don't understand some of the "not enough flavor" complaints. Complainers: Are there other "flour, water, yeast and salt only" recipes you've used that you feel produce a more flavorful result? I will say that most of us who are used to sourdough are likely to find commercial yeast doughs underflavored, but I don't gather that this is the main complaint.

Here is one of Gary's SF Chron articles, on Audrey's Earl Gray MarTEAni. The infusion is 1/4 cup of loose Earl Gray tea into 1 liter of Tanqueray for 2 hours. This recipe in New York Magazine calls for 4 tablespoons (aka 1/4 cup) of Earl Gray tea into 750 ml of Tanqueray for 2 hours. The Earl Gray infused gin is plenty tannic after two hours, and I certainly wouldn't want to infuse it any longer than that. One of the things that makes this cocktail work so well is that the egg white works to tame the tannin and smooth out the cocktail. Even then, there is a fair amount of that tannin drying effect in the finish.

The Ministry of Rum forum has been folded into the Spirits and Cocktails forum. Please have a look at our eG Forums reorganization announcement for more information. Back when we didn't have much spirits or cocktails discussion, the Ministry of Rum forum was here to leverage Ed Hamilton's incredible expertise in this area. Now it makes more sense to have all spirits discussion in one area, and to take advantage of Ed in that broader context. All the Ministry of Rum forum topics may now be found in the Spirits & Cocktails forum.

Rich, I'm curious: That's an interesting idea, but are you sure there is any legal basis for thinking that the restaurant is in the clear so long as you procure the glass and pour the wine? As I understand liquor laws and liability, the restaurant could still get into plenty of trouble for turning a blind eye. I'm sure, for example, that the restaurant would not be free of liability had you proceeded to order a half dozen Martinis and pour them into your niece's water glass for her to drink.

My experience is that carding happens with increasing frequency as restaurants descend down the "fine dining ladder." I can't imagine that Per Se or ADNY would for a moment consider not serving wine to a late-teenager in the presence of his/her parents. On the other hand, at Dinosaur Barbecue they probably would never serve a potential minor. Eleven Madison Park, the site of this particular example, is high enough up the ladder that I consider it unusual that they declined to serve a college age kid out for dinner with his parents. He wasn't asking for a nine ounce vodka martini, after all. Yea, I think we all know this can happen. Yea, it could happen at Eleven Madison Park to a college-age kid drinking wine with his mother during dinner. Is it likely to happen? I'd be shocked if any such thing has happened in this city at a two-star or higher restaurant in the last 20 years. The "rules" are different for bars than they are for restaurants (I would not consider it unusual if the bar at EMP declined to serve Bryan a martini). And the "rules" are different among restaurants as well.

robert40, please don't be deliberately obtuse. The legal validity and enforcability of the law is not the question. Everyone knows that there are plenty of laws on the books which are hardly enforced, and customs of looking the other way -- especially in New York City. For example, it is against the law to smoke within 100 feet of the entrance to a public building. Are you suggesting that building owners across New York City should be shooing away the huddling smokers during a rainstorm? Or, might it be considered ungracious to do so? I am quite sure that the owners, chefs and FOH managers in higher-end NYC restaurants are well aware of the fact that the children of well-heeled customers are regularly served.

Please direct any discussion as to observing alcohol laws (and drinking age in particular) to this thread in the Restaurant Life forum. Thanks!

Admin: An archive of "Bruni and Beyond" discussion from 2004 may be found here, discussion from 2005 may be found here, and an archive of 2006 discussion may be found here. I thought I'd kick off the new year with a new Bruni and Beyond thread. Have at it!

Wine pairings are frequently an option in top Italian restaurants. Isn't it also the case that the most common criticism of "top" Italian restaurants is that they're not all that Italian? And that their typical customers aren't Italian?

No one has said much about Indian buffets. Indian food strikes me as one that lends itself to buffet dining much more than Chinese, because it relies far less on a la minute preparation. Almost any long-braised dish will be okay in a buffet setting, and there are plenty to choose from in Indian (or, rather, Indian adapted for a buffet in America) cookery. Roti Boti in Jaskson Heights is a good example (although it's more of a steam-table place than a buffet, per se).

Hi Marlena. Two questions: 1. Where are you looking for these cocktails? A city would be useful to know in making recommendations. 2. I assume you are interested in buying these cocktails at a bar and not making them yourself?

I don't quite see the point of this. Part of this reason, I have to assume, is that the average Italian simply doesn't understand the concept of laying out 200 Euro for a bottle of wine. It's not the done thing in Italy and I daresay it's not the done thing in most any wine-drinking culture (which the United States by and large is not). If, indeed, it is the case that more Barolo is consumed in America than it is in Italy, it is because we have more people here with the interest and the means to shell out big bucks on a bottle of wine and therefore Barolo is being produced and priced for export. You might just as well say that the English don't drive many of their very best cars. This is probably true, but hardly demonstates anything other than the fact that the English don't have as many people with the interest and means to spend a quarter-million on a car. Part of what I think must drive the "micro-matching" in American restaurants is the prevalence of (genuine or would-be) oenophiles here at a certain price point. Although it may happen every so often, I don't think it's particularly common for Europeans to read the wine list first and then match the food with their choices. The only people I know who do that sort of thing are Americans. Quite to the contrary, most of the time in Italy, France, Spain, etc. wine is just something that is consumed with food. Yes, one cares about the quality of the wine and how it pairs with the food, but no more than one cares about the quality of the food and the food is driving (of course, many Europeans are far more invested and involved in their culinary culture than most Americans). The times I have enjoyed several different bottles of wine over the course of a European meal or outing, it has not been to make specific "this wine pairs so well with the hint of rosemary in the duck jus" kind of pairings, but rather just to enjoy a different and interesting bottle of wine. The other thing that has perhaps driven micro-pairing of wines is the growing popularity of tasting menus. In a regular three-course meal, it doesn't strike me as unreasonable or over-the-top to have a different wine with each course. It's when the meal grows to ten courses that the progression of paired wines can become a little overwhelming and occasionally a little silly. I wonder if and to what extent this practice has led to the point where two friends don't feel like they can share a single bottle if one is having pork and the other is having chicken, because a single wine can't possibly "match" both dishes optimally.

The discoloration on stainless steel cookware commonly caused by cooking over high heat is called "heat tint." It is not caused by coagulated proteins, or anything having to do with the food that is cooked in the pan. You can, in fact, produce heat tint in a stainless steel pan by heating it on the stove with nothing in it whatsoever. At around 350C/660F and higher, the stainless steel reacts with oxygen in the air to form an oxide layer. That oxide layer is the heat tint. Heat tint is not the same thing as the blackness that develops on a pan when fat is heated to high temperature. That is polymerized fat. It's quite durable, as efforts to remove it demonstrate, and can be relatively slick compared to other surfaces. The blackness comes from carbon that is bound up in the polymerized fat. "Seasoned" cast iron takes advantage of polymerized fat to form a less reactive and less "sticky" coating on the raw iron.

Grape tomatoes do seem, for some reason, to be quite reliable as to flavor, etc. throughout the year I don't think they're even remotely in the same neighboorhood as the Purple Cherokee and Brandywine tomatoes I get in the Union Square Greenmarket in August, but they do actually taste like tomato. I wonder what the deal is with this particular tomato? Where are they grown? And I wonder if the flavor 's related to the size somehow? Because the one thing that's incredibly annoying about grape tomatoes is trying to use them in a sandwich.