MobyP

Sentiamo - welcome to eGullet! I hope we get to hear more stories about your time in Italy. Did you ever eat a carbonara or amatriciana in Rome or the environs (Amatrice?) - and had the traditional cured cheek guanciale instead of pancetta?

What I was trying to stress was that you can vary the texture of the dough, and the moisture content, depending the nature the finished product. For papardelle or taglietelle, you want a thicker final dough with a lower moisture. For stufed pastas, a more fragile, thinner dough, with a slightly higher moisture to prevent it drying out before you seal it. And yes, if I'm dealing a large piece, I'll also cut it in two before running it through the thinnest setting.

Good point. This is worth going over. (BTW - I just made some more tortelloni tonight, and the sheet tore once or twice, so you reminded me to clear out the rollers...) As the pasta gets longer, first of all, where do you put it? I drape it along the length of my left forearm, sometimes folding it over by the elbow (it won't stick if it's well floured). The end you feed into the rollers with your left hand. However, if you just do this, the pasta will clump underneath the rollers, and sometimes it sticks together if it's slightly damp and becomes difficult to pull out. So the thing to do is: feed in the first few inches, and then pull the pasta out from under the rollers. This way you have a handle when it starts to gather. Then roll a few more inches (all the while keeping the excess pasta balanced on your left forearm), pull the lower sheet through like before, and continue until used up. As you also noted, you want to avoid letting the rollers 'drag' the pasta in, because that will stretch the dough against the metal. At the times when I'm pulling out the pasta from underneath (imagine your left hand under the rollers), I raise my left thumb, which suspends the pasta feeding into the rollers, stopping it dragging against the metal. Is that clear? You never have to worry about the excess feeding into the rollers, because that's laying on your left arm, and feeding itself in. Let me know. Maybe it's time to pull the camera out again, and give a play by play.

SlBunge - Wow - I love the idea of grating chocolate over the finished thing. That's a real find. My Atlas does the same thing - what happens is that in the early stages, when the dough is damper, tiny bits of it and also particles of semolina collect on the underside of the rollers - I clean it out with my fingers as the sheet gets thinner, so by the time you get to level 8, it won't tear the sheet. Try reaching underneath, and see if you can feel small amounts of build up which is causing the sheet to tear. Or try this the next time (or you can see now). Let me know if it helps.

Scott, if you didn't speak to or phone the management, you should certainly write - and make detailed. That sounds like disgusting negligence.

I admit to going to several restaurants becuase of Fort's rating system - I think he gave Thyme 17.5/20, which sent me to the phones, shallow puddle of a gourmand that I am.

Nirvana, of course... And a cool hair cut.

Welcome to eGullet KT, and congratulations on finding a place that will sell you 20 lbs of bones! I usually have to collect them from different butchers, a couple of pounds at a time. Were the bones fresh? Sometimes, when they're on the verge of going off, you can just miss the warning signs until it's too late. Let us know how it turns out.

slbunge - welcome - and let us know how it turns out. Sequim - bravo. When I was eating tortelli in Parma, it became about very simple but perfect things - the pasta, the filling, the cheese and butter. If you want to get seriously into the pasta-ness of it, I think you need to consider consistency - so, for starters, have considered getting some scales? With scales, you can stick to 100g per large egg, and not have that over-tenderness you mention - which is fine for tortelli etc, but inhibits taglietelle (which you should leave the pasta to dry for a while before cutting anyway). The difference between cups of flour is dramatic - and although with years of experience, you might get a very similar product, why not start weighing, and get that part out of the way? Second, you can start really getting into the quality of flour and eggs. Not all type '00' flour in the same. And are you using the absolutely best quality eggs you can get your hands on? I just found a shop around the corner that imports eggs from Emiglia-Romagna - the yolks are an amazing gold - I'm going to start experimenting with them. You can do the same. Third - start playing with proportions of flour. i.e. a 75/25 split of '00' to semolina. Then a 75/25 split, plus substituting 3 egg yolks for 1 egg. It can get pretty zen. Fourth - play with thicknesses, and cooking times. These make a huge difference. You know the way Batali finishes his pasta off in the sauce or 30 seconds? Try that. Play with cooking the pasta for 30 seconds less than you would usually, and letting it absorb something else. Or adding pasta water to your melted butter and making an emulsion - I could go on... Fifth - if you want to get really funky, I came across a recipe that incorporates cooked and pureed sausage meat and chicken livers into the past dough! Let me know how it goes!

Let us know how it works out - or how it doesn't!

Yeah - I bought my Atlas in Tuscany. The two are pretty ubiquitous.

Thanks Theabroma (btw your salsas were fantastic). I've never seen a dough made just with the whites, but I don't see whay you couldn't. Certainly there are doughs - mostly semolina - made just with water, and type '00' doughs made just with egg yolks - so you should try it and see what you come up with. Quite a pale pasta, I'd imagine. If you have friends who enjoy cooking - that would be a great idea. This isn't rocket science - and there are so many variations even among those who'll tell you there are no variations - that you'll find you can come to very similar results using different methods.

Don't worry - it's pretty simple. At its most basic: Preheat a 200C/400F oven. Sprinkle with salt and pepper. Cut up a few onions into 1" pieces to make a platform in your roasting tray. Place the chicken BREAST SIDE DOWN for 40 minutes. Turn the chicken breast side up for 20 until browned. After an hour total, prick the thick side of the thigh and see what color the juices are that run out. If pink, give it another 10 minutes and check again. When the juices run clear, IT'S DONE!! Rest for at least 15 mins (and preferably 20-25) before carving. To the above, you can add flavoured butters under the skin, stuff the cavity with half a lemon, sprigs of thyme and taragon and rosemary etc. But the above is, technically, where to start from.

Lucy - they're relatively inexpensive. What country are you in? In America, the hand-cranked models go from 35 dollars to around 50 (for over priced). In the UK, they tend to be under 40 pounds. If you were in Italy, you could probably find them cheaper. The two models I see the most are the Imperia, and the Atlas Marcato - and either will do. But I wouldn't be too worried. I've never found a cheap cheap one - but I'd be the first one to buy it if I did! Next we go into Potbelly ravioli, more tortelli, capelletti, and tortellini - then on to Pansotti, Tortelloni, and Raviolo. Hope you enjoy.

Is the pancetta available in the US all produced in North America? Because of concerns over something called 'Swine Flu,' a disease no one in Europe has ever heard of (and I suspect is an invention of 'Our Friend's' in the New Jersey Pork Industry), pork products from Italy or elsewhere in Europe are severely restricted. Of course there are exceptions! It would hardly seem civilised to prevent the importation of prosciutto, or mortadella - but don't come near us with any of that pancetta stuff! I did find the odd place that imported Italian pancetta unaware that they were breaking the law (can you imagine - the savagery of a law against bacon?), but most of what you get is either American or Canadian. The Whole Foods Pancetta is pretty bad - large rolls of fatty pork with half an inch of pepper. Time for a taste test! Google all the Italian delis in your area, and go from there. I'm really lucky. A woman in London imports the most most amazing pancetta I've ever come across - from Italy. It's laced with rosemary and peppercorns - it's completely trancendental. She tells me she's sent some through the post system to the US, but I was stopped at customs, and they took at least two feet off me. Ah well. Now I'm back in London, so my supply is back.

Analogies... hmm. Bread dough has a softness and elasticity, doesn't it - but you'll know what I mean when I talk about the difference between a 'wet' dough and a 'dry' dough? There's that moment when it suddenly loses it's stickiness, or dampness, and becomes pliable without it - maybe you just added two more grams of flour during kneading, and suddenly it became smooth and dry? That's what you're aiming for. Pliant, and smooth, but with more resistence, more feeling of density than bread dough, and dry - but not too dry (or it dries out when you're turning them into pastas!). And pastry dough (I make a lot of sucree) scares the hell out of me, because you have to keep the butter cold enough to be workable, but not warm enought to melt - so there's always something brittle about it, which is the antithesis of pasta. You can do an experiment - 200g flour plus two large eggs Vs. 200g. plus two large eggs plus an egg yolk or tablespoon of oil - when the former dough comes together, you'll have to work it before it eventiually becomes smooth. It's a bit of a wrestling match sometimes, and you think the dough is never going to relax, and become smooth - the second will come together much faster. And using the food processor is absolutely fine - and actually the most efficient way of combining all of the flour (not to mention larger batches of ingredients). Just whizz it until it resembles course bread crumbs, or comes together in a ball, and turn it out and start kneading. I think it's worth learning the old ways though. What if you're stranded on an island somewhere with only several kilos of flour, some lovely looking eggs, and your wits about you and someone's holding a viscious looking piece of fruit to your head! How are you going to make pasta then?

Thanks Adam. The French Laundry angolotti recipe defeated me - there's a great picture of them (pg77) - they have this kind of half-attached 'floating' third wall on one side which I've never seen anywhere - but I've only tried it once. (I think Ramsey misread the same Keller instructions, and then published his own 'ravioli' recipe in the Secrets book.) Also, I've never tried any of the Chinese dim sum shapes. Other than that - no, they're all pretty simple - just the smaller they are, the more time consuming they are to make in quantity. You have to decide one Sunday to produce tortellini in brodo for a large number of people before you'll realise why Italians have such large families. It's always best with a production line.

Thank you! 1. You can certainly do it without the oil - and I usually omit it if I'm making any straight noodles (taglietelle etc). But with ravioli you want something slightly more flexible. By lucky coincidence, chickens are considerate enough to produce large eggs which go perfectly with 100g of flour! Really, it's jolly nice of them. The problem is, if you need a little more liquid to make pasta slightly more flexible, what are your options? A tablespoon or so of water, an extra egg yolk, or a splash of oil - and it's a matter of preference. I find just a little oil gives the pasta a bit more flexibility. In the 400g recipe, I use an extra yolk, plus a splash of oil. You could probably omit the oil, and still have a pretty flexible dough - but I wanted to take out any possibility of it being too stiff, if there were beginners trying it for the first time. 2. I find in polite society, you can get away with 100g flour per person for straight pastas. The problem, I just don't know anyone who's that polite when faced with a really good bowl of food. (And what is it with some of these books? The number of River Cafe recipes that use 250g/8oz dried pasta and say 'Feeds 6 people!' Who on earth are they feeding? 4 year olds?) So - I usually go up to 150g of flour per person to be safe - for big eaters (and depending on what sauce, etc). With stuffed pastas it's a little different, because you use less dough. Also, it becomes harder to cook them for increasingly larger numbers (so feeding 10 people with just ravioli would send me running behind the couch). But you learn to negotiate. You couldn't make ravioli or tortelli for 10 unless you had at least two very big pots of water. But tortellini or tortelloni (in the next course) are much sturdier, and can take a little bashing around in a boiling pot. Also, as a starter, you only have five or six per portion, and again it becomes manageable. For a main, you'll want to start with 8 or so per portion, with enough for seconds. Yes to containing the eggs. Above 6, I'd probably start looking towards my food processor, or do it in two batches initially, and then combine them when kneading. 3. I bet Adam Balic or Jackal10 would know about the albumin aspect. I noticed that the Thomas Keller recipe used 30 egg yolks per kilo of flour - which works out to 3 yolks per 100g, or 3 yolks = 1 egg. Perhaps the oil makes up for a loss in albumin? Basically if you can use water - which many middle and southern Italian recipes do - you can use egg yolk. If you're experienced, you'll probably find a difference in texture in the handling of the dough - but so long as you knead it properly, I'm not sure if the mouth feel will be significantly different. Thanks for the questions!

If you could attach photographs, that would be worth millions. That's the one. What he said.

Mighty Marina "she'll do you for starters" O'Laughlin - definitely worth reading.

The eGCI course starts today (it's in 3 parts). Come over if anyone would like some help. Plenty of pictures of man kneading dough (all dough was of consenting age). 1. The essential problem is what Hazan means by 1 cup of flour. In weight terms, it can mean anything between 100g to 150g, depending on how firmly packed, mounded, piled etc the flour is. 150g per 2 eggs will give you a slightly over-soft dough. But 100g per 2 eggs will give you what you describe - a sticky mess. The answer? Buy some scales! (people singing and dancing in the street). Depending on the weather (but not much), it's roughly 100g per large egg for a moderately flexible dough useful for any of the straight cuts - papardelle, taglietelle, tagliolini etc. For stuffed pastas, you want something slightly more flexible - 400g to 5 eggs plus a small splash of oil. Or 250g to 3 eggs for a 'half' recipe. 2. As Sam notes, you should run your pasta up to 10 times through the fattest setting, each time folding the piece in 2, or more effectively in 3 (10 to the power of 3 gives you something like 59,000 layers). You'll find by doing this not only that the dough relaxes, and becomes more cohesive, but you'll understand how to moderate the width of the sheet to get the distance you want. 3. Yes - I've had the same problem. The trick - especially with taglietelle, paprdelle etc, is to let the sheet of pasta dry for about 30 minutes before you cut it - you'll feel it become increasingly leathery. With experience, you'll find the point where you can cut it, and still fold it up without it sticking to itself, or cracking and breaking. Also, plenty of semolina flour will help prevent the sticking as it dries. 4. You always need to 'rest' the dough for at least 30 minutes, and preferably a couple of hours after kneading, and before rolling. I have left the in the dough fridge overnight - for one reason or another - rolling it out the next day, and it was basically ok. Slightly less - and here I have to use the most horrible word in gastronomy - 'toothsome.' I wouldn't leave it past a day though.

Tortelli d’Asparagi (Tortelli of Asparagus, pecorino) This recipe is from the Stuffed Pastas course, in the eCGI. The Filling 1 large bunch asparagus juice from 1 lemon 3/4 cup/1 handful grated pecorino romano 1 egg yolk salt and pepper mounded tablespoon of ricotta (optional) The Tortelli 90g/6 tablspoons good unsalted butter 1 recipe pasta dough extra parmagiano or pecorino for grating small bunch fresh sage semolina for sprinkling Prepare the asparagus: if you don’t have much experience with this vegetable, one simple way to prepare it is to take a spear by each end, and bend it gently. It should snap a little past half-way tow Use the Basic Pasta Recipe In a pot of salted boiling water, blanch the asparagus for 3-5 minutes, depending on the thickness of the spears, until you can pierce them without much resistance Drain, and place in a food processor with the pecorino, lemon juice, ricotta (if using). Pulse a few times, scraping down the walls in between. Taste for seasoning. If it needs more salt, add a little more pecorino (but be careful, as pecorino is very salty). Add the egg yolk and keep pulsing, and scraping down the sides, until you have a mixture resembling guacamole. Cover, and place in the fridge for 30 minutes to firm up. Then proceed as with the other tortelli recipes, from the Stuffed Pastas course Keywords: Pasta, eGCI ( RG945 )

Tortelli d’Asparagi (Tortelli of Asparagus, pecorino) This recipe is from the Stuffed Pastas course, in the eCGI. The Filling 1 large bunch asparagus juice from 1 lemon 3/4 cup/1 handful grated pecorino romano 1 egg yolk salt and pepper mounded tablespoon of ricotta (optional) The Tortelli 90g/6 tablspoons good unsalted butter 1 recipe pasta dough extra parmagiano or pecorino for grating small bunch fresh sage semolina for sprinkling Prepare the asparagus: if you don’t have much experience with this vegetable, one simple way to prepare it is to take a spear by each end, and bend it gently. It should snap a little past half-way tow Use the Basic Pasta Recipe In a pot of salted boiling water, blanch the asparagus for 3-5 minutes, depending on the thickness of the spears, until you can pierce them without much resistance Drain, and place in a food processor with the pecorino, lemon juice, ricotta (if using). Pulse a few times, scraping down the walls in between. Taste for seasoning. If it needs more salt, add a little more pecorino (but be careful, as pecorino is very salty). Add the egg yolk and keep pulsing, and scraping down the sides, until you have a mixture resembling guacamole. Cover, and place in the fridge for 30 minutes to firm up. Then proceed as with the other tortelli recipes, from the Stuffed Pastas course Keywords: Pasta, eGCI ( RG945 )

Tortelli di Zucca (Pumpkin Tortelli) This recipe is from the Stuffed Pastas course, in the eCGI. In this recipe I haven't used amaretti – though for some it’s vital. I find the balsamic vinegar adds sweetness, but also more depth of flavour to the pumpkin or squash. In some traditional recipes you’ll find ‘Motarda di Cremona,’ a sort of pickled, fruit mustard/preserve – so experiment. Always taste as you go – and find what works for you. Also, the bread crumbs are there to add substance, but also to control the 'dryness' of the filling. I've made them optional, only because I prefer to use cheese instead (which does the same thing, and adds more flavour). The Filling 1 roughly 1 Kg/ 2-1/2lb/medium-sized pumpkin or butternut squash. 2 T of good balsamic vinegar salt and pepper olive oil 1 c / 1-2 handfuls freshly grated parmagiano (to taste) 1/4 c bread-crumbs (optional) a few gratings of nutmeg 1 egg yolk (optional) The Tortellini 90g/6 tablespoons good unsalted butter 1 recipe pasta dough extra parmagiano for grating small bunch fresh sage semolina for sprinkling Use the Basic pasta recipe Pre-heat the oven to 375F/180C. Cut the pumpkin or squash into slices, about 1”/ 2 1/2cm thick. Place the pieces on a roasting tray, and give a light coating of olive oil, salt and pepper. Roast for about 45 minutes to an hour, or until very soft. Remove from oven and let cool When cool, remove the meat from the skin (I use my fingers), discarding the seeds and fibers, and mash with the back of a fork, a masher, or a potato ricer. The flesh can be quite fibrous, so you need to be thorough. (Alternatively, force the pulp through a sieve or tamis for a smooth purée.) Mix in the balsamic vinegar, 1 cup of the grated cheese (you can add more if it needs it), the bread crumbs, salt and pepper, and grate a little nutmeg. Taste for seasoning. There's a lot of liquid in pumpkins, so you have to moderate it: if it seems a little wet, you can add more cheese or bread crumbs. (Note: if the filling is too wet, it can make the tortelli difficult to deal with later on). If too dry (like stiff mashed potato), add the egg yolk, and stir well to combine. Cover, and place in the fridge for 20 minutes or so. Meanwhile, roll out the pasta to the thinnest setting (Imperia, Kitchen Aid – or No. 8 on the Atlas). Try to aim for a narrower strip, rather than one the full width of the machine (you’ll waste less pasta that way). On a large cutting board, lay the sheet out lengthwise in front of you. At 3” intervals, place a spoonful of the pumpkin filling in the middle of the sheet Next, with your finger, or a pastry brush, dampen around the filling; then fold the top half of the sheet over the filling, and lay it against the bottom half. The trick here is to seal the tortelli with as little air as possible inside (the air can expand in the hot water, and cause them to burst). Using a cupped hand, press around the mounds of filling, making sure they’re sealed well Then, using a knife or scalloped roller, cut out the tortelli on three sides (the fold will act as the fourth). Sprinkle a tray generously with semolina, and place the tortelli at regular intervals, making sure they don’t touch. Continue until the filling, or pasta is used up. Place a big pot of salted-water onto boil. Carefully drop the tortelli in, and reduce to a high simmer – if it boils too violently, it can break the pasta. Poach for about 3-5 minutes, depending on the dryness of the pasta. Meanwhile, in another pan, sauté a handful of sage leaves in the butter until they start to crisp. Using a slotted spoon, or a spider, transfer the cooked tortelli to a heated platter, pour over the melted butter and sage leaves. Serve sprinkled with the remaining parmagiano, and some black pepper. Variations I wanted to pair the pumpkin with fava/broad beans, but fat chance finding favas in London in blinkin' March! But this is the point I wanted to get across – what looks good? How can we take it and turn it into a ravioli filling? In this case, I found some asparagus. I always thought there was a quality and intensity of flavour that favas and asparagus share. So – I thought I’d adapt the fava recipe into this. Keywords: Pasta, eGCI ( RG944 )

Tortelli di Zucca (Pumpkin Tortelli) This recipe is from the Stuffed Pastas course, in the eCGI. In this recipe I haven't used amaretti – though for some it’s vital. I find the balsamic vinegar adds sweetness, but also more depth of flavour to the pumpkin or squash. In some traditional recipes you’ll find ‘Motarda di Cremona,’ a sort of pickled, fruit mustard/preserve – so experiment. Always taste as you go – and find what works for you. Also, the bread crumbs are there to add substance, but also to control the 'dryness' of the filling. I've made them optional, only because I prefer to use cheese instead (which does the same thing, and adds more flavour). The Filling 1 roughly 1 Kg/ 2-1/2lb/medium-sized pumpkin or butternut squash. 2 T of good balsamic vinegar salt and pepper olive oil 1 c / 1-2 handfuls freshly grated parmagiano (to taste) 1/4 c bread-crumbs (optional) a few gratings of nutmeg 1 egg yolk (optional) The Tortellini 90g/6 tablespoons good unsalted butter 1 recipe pasta dough extra parmagiano for grating small bunch fresh sage semolina for sprinkling Use the Basic pasta recipe Pre-heat the oven to 375F/180C. Cut the pumpkin or squash into slices, about 1”/ 2 1/2cm thick. Place the pieces on a roasting tray, and give a light coating of olive oil, salt and pepper. Roast for about 45 minutes to an hour, or until very soft. Remove from oven and let cool When cool, remove the meat from the skin (I use my fingers), discarding the seeds and fibers, and mash with the back of a fork, a masher, or a potato ricer. The flesh can be quite fibrous, so you need to be thorough. (Alternatively, force the pulp through a sieve or tamis for a smooth purée.) Mix in the balsamic vinegar, 1 cup of the grated cheese (you can add more if it needs it), the bread crumbs, salt and pepper, and grate a little nutmeg. Taste for seasoning. There's a lot of liquid in pumpkins, so you have to moderate it: if it seems a little wet, you can add more cheese or bread crumbs. (Note: if the filling is too wet, it can make the tortelli difficult to deal with later on). If too dry (like stiff mashed potato), add the egg yolk, and stir well to combine. Cover, and place in the fridge for 20 minutes or so. Meanwhile, roll out the pasta to the thinnest setting (Imperia, Kitchen Aid – or No. 8 on the Atlas). Try to aim for a narrower strip, rather than one the full width of the machine (you’ll waste less pasta that way). On a large cutting board, lay the sheet out lengthwise in front of you. At 3” intervals, place a spoonful of the pumpkin filling in the middle of the sheet Next, with your finger, or a pastry brush, dampen around the filling; then fold the top half of the sheet over the filling, and lay it against the bottom half. The trick here is to seal the tortelli with as little air as possible inside (the air can expand in the hot water, and cause them to burst). Using a cupped hand, press around the mounds of filling, making sure they’re sealed well Then, using a knife or scalloped roller, cut out the tortelli on three sides (the fold will act as the fourth). Sprinkle a tray generously with semolina, and place the tortelli at regular intervals, making sure they don’t touch. Continue until the filling, or pasta is used up. Place a big pot of salted-water onto boil. Carefully drop the tortelli in, and reduce to a high simmer – if it boils too violently, it can break the pasta. Poach for about 3-5 minutes, depending on the dryness of the pasta. Meanwhile, in another pan, sauté a handful of sage leaves in the butter until they start to crisp. Using a slotted spoon, or a spider, transfer the cooked tortelli to a heated platter, pour over the melted butter and sage leaves. Serve sprinkled with the remaining parmagiano, and some black pepper. Variations I wanted to pair the pumpkin with fava/broad beans, but fat chance finding favas in London in blinkin' March! But this is the point I wanted to get across – what looks good? How can we take it and turn it into a ravioli filling? In this case, I found some asparagus. I always thought there was a quality and intensity of flavour that favas and asparagus share. So – I thought I’d adapt the fava recipe into this. Keywords: Pasta, eGCI ( RG944 )