MobyP

Hear hear!

Suzi - if you get the reservations, I'll drive!

I think part of the gastro pub aesthetic comes from the fact that there hasn't existed in this country a culinary world at this level, spread this broadly. As I said before; the French culture gravitates around the bistro, as the Us has the Diner. The twentieth century in England was a cornucopia of sausages chips and beans. Sure, the dominant techniques applied are Western European, but what else could they be, realistically? We simply don't have an extensive high or medium brow culinary culture to draw on (other than the old houses). But we do have what comes from the land. The ingredients (at the best places) are carefully selected, and local. The farming in this country has produced remarkable ingredients. Ah well, I'm blathering.

Pedro - please come and share your experiences with us when you've been there. And have a great time - Bray is very picturesque. There's a great old churchyard and cemetary, and a lovely river near by (where you might pass the other 3 star restaurant The Waterside Inn).

Marina's adjectival assault on the senses! (subscription and sponds required)

We let Patrick Salles the sommelier match wines for us (although to be fair, it was one of those incredibly rare freebies, so I wasn't paying). But to my knowledge, it's not extortionate. I seem to remember him matching us up witth several alsatian whites - all of which were lovely.

Sorry Pedro - I didn't see this. As far as I know, they are open in August. Most of the swanky places allow you to book early - and some have no time limit. I think Ramsay works a month ahead, but I'm not sure. With both Ramsay and FD, lunches are easier to get than dinners. The other recommendations on this thread - St. John, Hakkasan, New Tayyeb etc are where you can find some really fun and far more casual eating. Let me know if I can be of any help.

I haven't heard anything - but just for the record, how many Yau places are there now?

I have yet to have Thai food in London that even approaches the level ot Thai food I've had in New York (vice cersa with Indian food). That said - there are MANY Thai places I have yet to try. Scott - the thing about the high-end places is that many of them are trying to reinvent the cuisine - re-examining ingredients, approaches etc - so while you may get a fantastic meal (be it 'New' (gulp) Indian in England), it won't necessarily reflect the generally very high 'lowest common denominator' or base level cooking you can find in the country. That's why people have suggested New Tayyeb (sp?) etc. I'm sure you'll get suggestions for the high end places though. I was quite sad about Zaika.

I was just thinking that most of the small shops in my area are themselves franchises, working on the 7/11 format of trying to please everyone. When I think of the sorts of small shops to be held up as models, they all closed 10-15 years ago, either bought out, or shut down.

I came across a dish yesterday at the Ebury - slow roast belly of pork - that was actually done by confiting pork belly for a long time, and then finishing it in the oven. Among other things, I was very impressed by how the method hadn't warped the meat, or oxydized it, and the texture was perfectly gentle throughout. The fat was gelatinized. But it made me think about densities of cooking fats, and I wondered if it had a similar effect to sous vide. T. Keller writes about how the density of buerre monte is greater than blood, and so he often rests pieces of meat in it - where no blood or juices will escape into the buerre - because of that density differential. If you're cooking in duck fat at low temp for a long time, you're providing a barrier against both oxygen and bacteria due again to the density differential. If it also keeps juices inside the meat, isn't this a fair emulation of a vacuum?

Scott - if you're going to eat at all of those places, you'll have a phenomenal time. Not to mention a coronary. The only thing I would suggest is avoiding Zaika - I had a bad meal there quite recently. Not even average. Everything was overcooked. The Ramsay meal will make you happy. As will the FD. There's more of a consensus than Opson would lead you to believe. It's just that he/she thinks there's a conspiracy afoot. It's quite true, btw. Between London, Paris, New York - London doesn't stand up for sheer breadth. But there's some great food here. Hope you enjoy.

Tony - the setting is so far ott ostentatious that you can only laugh. The food, however, is for the most part expertly done, with enormous atttention, and a real bargain (at 43 quid for nine courses - or along those lines). This is high level haute cooking - not necessarily blisteringly original, but extremely tasty.

Thanks Izabel - there's also a link (which I hadn't seen before) for The Havelock.

(I might merge this groovy chat into the FD thread) Although that's a good definition Opson, doesn't 'Classic' also indicate something broader? A dissemination into the world of an idea, more than just the dish itself? The Adria Foam. Keller's Butter poached lobster. Troisgros Salmon and Sorrel. Robuchon's puree potato, or foie gras and lentils. Loiseau (sp?) mousseline of frog's legs? All of these became 'classic' along side of spreading the notion of a new approach to food (in smaller and larger ways), rather than just from their location on a the menu of a successful restaurant for a period of time. No?

Suzi - you have a brain the size of a small German car. I on the other hand am only two steps removed from a goldfish. Herve This once proved it using only a piece of string and a banana.

Hi Fay - there are a mess of recipes around these boards, if you search under "pork belly" - though muost of the best ones are Asian. If you're not steaming, then the method usually goes - debone, trim of fat, roll up tight and tie, braise in stock with aromatics on a low temp for about 21/2 - 3 hours. Then you can cut off medalions, and either serve as is, or pan fry until crispy on the outside, and melting within.

Obviously This has had an influence over all three, but I got the impression (from these boards no less) that he had far closer ties to Gagnaire, over Adria or Blumenthal. Heston, I thought, was more associated with the science dept of some English university.

The Eagle was the original gastro pub - up in Farringdon. It might be ok, but I don't thnk anyone would say it's still in its prime. The Atlas is around the corner from me. It's a great, comfortable space, but the food can be less than brilliant. I had a very nice freshly grilled sardines there, and then some pheasant (including buckshot!) where the sauce was a bit claggy. Neither are as good as The Duke of Cambridge, or the Havelock Tavern on a good night, imo.

I came across a savoury bread pudding/gratin with foie gras and chicken livers (I think). Can't for the life of me remember where.

If Leeds had two three star restaurants I'd say it was in London! Fisherman - welcome. I believe Bray was noted in the original request, which is why we were considering it.

Is this it, the best that London has to offer? No, it's not all that London has to offer - unfortunately it was all I had to offer in the 3 minutes I took to write a response this morning, before running out. My apologies for not being encyclopedic. It's certainly true that the Waterside Inn might be passe. Both Ferran Adria and Thomas Keller (apart from us other dummies) happen to think Heston Blumenthal does remarkable things. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy yourself, Opson, but more sorry that you wouldn't discuss your meal in greater detail. I for one have no problem with someone disliking The Fat Duck. It's also true that London is neither New York nor Paris nor Barcelona. I think you must be joking about J Sheekey's. It's a tourist trap with high prices for very basic, mediocre and pedestrian fare. Really, I wouldn't even wish the meal I had on you. I agree with you about Haakasan, St. John's etc.

Hi Scott - As with the rest of the world, lunches are easier to get than dinners - but easier still is to call the places and find out what times they have available, and throw yourself on their mercy. You should be warned that St. John isn't a fine dining experience - it's far more basic and visceral (no pun intended), but for some people (Tony Bourdain included) no less satisfying. Top tier options: Gordon Ramsay - RHR (modern classic) Fat Duck - Bray (Alien classic) Waterside Inn - Bray (Old School classic) You'll have a tremendous meal at any of those.

The Lady Pleaser - welcome to eGullet! We're trying to start an Angry Northern Mob and have it ready for when Gary returns - hope you'll join us!

Just to be clear - has ANYONE except for Bapi eaten at the Waterside? Shame on us all.