SLB

I totally understand why Chum wanted to stay home for a day with the Shelby and the Franzia, sigh. Also, I think I could come too, and we would all get along famously.

I've been kind of behind all over, so I probably just missed it. I'm raising my glass to you over here, in support and solidarity and [huntin']-seasonal gladness!

Very excited for this. But -- Shelby, why can't you eat lettuce?

Wonderful little podcast from the Southern Foodways Alliance: https://www.southernfoodways.org/gravy/ Two especially wonderful episodes: Community canneries: https://www.southernfoodways.org/gravy/preserving-community-canneries/ Co-op extensions on Native American reservations: https://www.southernfoodways.org/gravy/access-denied-cooperative-extension-and-tribal-lands/ [Food aside -- that last one featured an EXCELLENT use of "carpetbag", the verb.] Enjoy.

Also, in my experience not every butternut squash in the world is all that sweet. To be sure -- they're all sweeter than summer squash. But I have found that if I buy them too early in the fall they are comparatively bland. Or something. I'm not totally sure if it's a timing thing, actually, that could've been my attempt to make sense of a boring vegetable dish. But. I've gotten some that seem like they aren't worth what it took to peel 'em. Just sayin'.

Well. I see your point, but I assume that the craft cocktail was designed/invented to do something creative on the palate. And I'm up there asking a thousand questions about how much simple -- no, really, how much -- and trying to get at, fifty-leven different ways, whether it tastes sweet or just kinda pings sweet. It's one thing to say, please leave off the sugar rim. But I get all up into the components, and I could see how this could be, possibly, beyond the pale. Because one thing is clear: the general public likes their drinks sweet. The bar is not wrong or anything.

To be clear -- I definitely would expect to pay the stated price for the bleu-cheese burger. As I said, I actually wouldn't order the bleu-cheese burger without the bleu cheese, because that was the whole notion (in the same vein, I don't order the radishes-n-butter at Prune without the butter, you know? It's a *thing* she's doing there. A simple thing. But a *thing*.). But that point has been made here, repeatedly. I have actually seen people try to not pay for what they didn't want. I once saw someone try to not pay for something she didn't eat. I do not think this is acceptable behavior, myself, but there are a lot of interesting forms of self-regard out there . . . . This conversation has made me rethink the one place where I have historically felt complete license making demands: cocktails. Many if not most craft cocktail creations are too sweet for me, notwithstanding the bartender's insistence that they are "balanced". (Note: the default sweet note goes WAY UP the further South you are drinking). When I go out, tho, I usually want something other than a classic drink that I could make quite competently at home; I want to try what the bar has created. But the truth is, I want to try it not-too-sweet, and usually have a whole conversation with the bartender about sweetness and options. Which is actually awfully presumptuous! And probably kind of annoying, particularly where I'm not already a known customer. I may need to rethink that.

I'm hazarding a guess, but is this place an Alinea-style situation? Does it not make a difference? Obvs it matters that you're a *regular*; but does the genre of dining experience count in terms of when it's appropriate or not to ask for rye toast instead of the yucky bun? I've been to Alinea twice, and both times it was more of an immersive-art experience than a menu-type situation. It just seems not really feasible to be working around all of those dishes every whichaway. I realize that Weinoo said he doesn't go to restaurants for art; but nevertheless I think that's where they aim at Alinea. I would not say the same for Spotted Pig, for what that's worth. Although I probably would not order a stylized bleu-cheese burger without the bleu cheese, myself. In part because I'm kind of cheap, and wouldn't pay for a gastropub creation that I wasn't actually interested in. Which brings up an interesting question: does one pay for the bleu cheese if you ask that it be withheld?

Indeed. I'm very fond of Burlington. Honestly, it was the kraut at Farmhouse (served with their housemade brats) that made me decide that I needed some of my own at the house.

Right now I'm mostly committed to Vermont Creamery after being holed up in Vermont for work for a couple of years which coincided with a nod from Dorie Greenspan. If I have it, I use the "lightly salted" for smearing and eating, and the unsalted for all other situations. I actually don't bake with it because I'm not a super experienced baker, and my understanding is that the european-style high-fat butters can confound old US recipes, and I have no idea how to adjust. So for baking I use Cabot Creamery unsalted, unless I'm sure the higher-fat butter is not going to put some wrench in things I'm supposed to know how to adjust for. (Can you spot my fondness for a particular state?) Truthfully, I'm interested in supporting the New England dairies generally, including the Hudson Valley folks. (Ronnybrook, for example, is pretty widely available in NYC, and it's the only milk that I think is drinkable. I don't really drink milk often, though, so it's mostly all about the cream). But we were talking about butter. For years I bought Kerrygold exclusively, until I realized that it just did not make sense to import my basic butter when I live down-valley from some seriously extraordinary dairies. I'm a globalist, but not with that quality of local option alongside that kind of carbon footprint. But, sigh. I do love me some Kerrygold.

When I was a teenager, a little girl I babysat had a milk allergy, and died after two bites of restaurant oatmeal which her mother had been assured had been made without milk. Specifically, she died of anaphylactic shock in the car where her parents were racing to a hospital. I found out the very next day, when the mom came into the bank where I worked (back then, teenagers had jobs, including jobs in places like the small neighborhood bank). I had enough home-training not to say anything abusive like, what the hell were you doing in a restaurant with such a severe food allergy??? But ever since then, I've always thought that a known lethal allergy is just not something you can safely bring into a restaurant (especially if you'd like to eat something that is typically made with the forbidden ingredient). Call it trauma. I never got over the image in my mind of that mom in that car. I appreciate where Achatz is coming from. That was the most distressing shiva call I have ever paid, and it was a good 33 years ago.

I didn't get beans that look like that in my last Bean Club shipment. Or the one before that!

They sure are pretty. But that is a helluva price (at Purcell). Whew.

Look. I eat [cooked] kale. I actually grew with it amongst the regular boiled greens! I'm not a kale-hater, although I am a kale-style hater. And raw kale makes me unhappy and exasperated. But kale and cheese??? Seriously? I might fall out. Even frying can't fix that! [I realize that this, the foulness of kale plus cheese generally, is a different topic than the initial query, whether putting kale or anything like kale into a roasted-peeled-breaded-fried-and-otherwise-stuffed chile is a think known to the cuisine which invented the glorious wonderful wonder of chiles rellenos. Just a nod to the mods . . . .]

I got some take-out from this Mexican-food-styled restaurant this afternoon, and was HORRIFIED to see them getting on this all-kale-all-the-time train in the chiles rellenos: And then I wondered, is greens in chiles rellenos a *thing*? I grew up in Colorado, and have never seen anything like it, myself. But, it's not like I've eaten everything, everywhere, and it's not the native cuisine of my growing-up home. Anybody with authority? Anybody? Chiles stuffed with cheese and KALE?

Also, I made this a few years ago when I was dealing with way too much bread plus way too much squash in my house. I remember it being very tasty; obvs the main thing to see here is, ricotta, mild heat, and sweet squash seem to go together well: https://food52.com/recipes/31228-abc-kitchen-s-butternut-squash-on-toast

Ricotta pie.

Thank you for all of these good ideas! Earnest and otherwise. Because it just so happens, I have a WHOLE LOT of tights that I don't seem to ever wear anymore, and could stand to be repurposed . . . . ETA: Shelby, I think that bag could be rigged with some small cardboard pieces surrounding the tomato sleeve, to keep it from knocking against the cucumbers and other goodies. You'd still have to deal with vertical friction, but tissue paper or anything easy could probably ameliorate that problem.

People, I have had it. Specifically, I have had it with trying to get heirloom tomatoes home from the market. Or, Brandywines. Here in NYC, they cost basically fortune (**not the Brandywines). Setting aside whether the "heirlooms" are worth it as a general matter -- we KNOW that it's not worth it when you get home and they got bruised or busted in transit. How on earth does a person get soft-skinned tomatoes home intact??? I always use a bag with a bona fide foot in its construction, and I also try hard not to put anything else in it, or even jostle it. But it never fails -- one or more is bruised or busted, leaking its wonder-juice everywhere, and requiring me to basically eat them as soon as I get home. It may be that if you place them carefully in your car you don't have this problem. But I don't place them in a car, I'm either walking or getting on a bus or a train. What in the world are people doing to get home with whole healthy tomatoes? [Should I this in the NYC thread???] To be honest, I also have this problem often enough with apples. I just don't care as much, because I can salvage a bruised apple to my satisfaction, for the most part. Also, they are not as expensive! But this tomato thing is ridiculous. There is so much crap in this world, there HAS to be a gadget for this. I feel like other people must know something I don't. Because this is insanity! Help! Please!

The Preserving threads. Life-changing.

Me too! Can't wait!

I'm there pretty frequently because my best friend lives there. We often grab Haitian food from Grandchamps on Patchen. It's hearty and seasoned if unevenly executed, and won't touch the wonder of Haitian home food. But for when you want things like oxtail . . . Totally kid friendly cafe=style place, good for takeout. Expect to wait a long time for the food. Honestly I have no idea whether there is alcohol (which means probably not, it's not a feature I'm prone to really miss). But you could probably bring your own beer in.

I mean, are we trying to start an intentional community? Because, I mean, I'm in. Seriously. These popsicle shots make me rethink . . . everything.

I'm trying to get that book for Christmas. Please do report back!

I drink gin regularly, and I appreciate your critique of Hendricks (which everyone around me seems to love, except for me). One to stay all the way away from is "Greenhook". It's so nasty I keep thinking, I must not understand (I felt this way about mole poblano until I actually got to Oaxaca . . . but where was I --). After two bottles I gave up. One that I'm currently enjoying, I mean for when I want something other than good ole' Plymouth, is called Martin Miller's: "Blended in England Using Icelandic Spring Water." It took awhile for the gin buyer at my regular liquor store to convince me to try it. And it turned out, he was right -- there's *something* atypical going on there, but not something crazy.