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I have been following this thread but have yet to post, and I certainly will not post any of my photos here for comments. I would only say that I completely associate myself with Jason's remarks in his last post, and would add that objecting to typos, misspellings, or grammar mistakes as being unworthy of this site is just as objectionable as objecting to less-than-"perfect" photography as unworthy of this site. I definitely try my best to write every post well, and with proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling, but I do not tell others what to do in that regard, and I can immediately think of a member who makes loads of typos and spelling mistakes all over the place and whose contributions are quite valuable. I will never, never criticize that person for the errors or even mention the errors to that user, because the posts in question are easily understandable and that person is in a unique position to contribute content to this site. (I will not name or even indicate the sex of the user I'm talking about, by the way, so if you want to guess who I have in mind, you're on your own.) eGullet is not a site reserved for professional writers, photographers, and typists - nor even professional cooks. It is for anyone who is interested in matters having to do with food who is willing to operate within the eGullet User Agreement. And if anyone can't stand to look at posts with typos, grammar mistakes, spelling mistakes, incorrect punctuation, improper capitalization, and flawed photos, they are always free to spend their time elsewhere.

I think the key point isn't what you or I think 4-star food is, but what Bruni thinks 4-star food is. It's evident that you don't consider Babbo's food 4-star, but not evident to me that he doesn't. But I'll accept that we don't yet know what he thinks 4-star food is. Maybe once he's handed out his first 4-star review, we'll know more.

We shall have to agree to disagree on that, and I will quote relevant portions of his Babbo review in support of my argument: He's specifically talking about something other than the food here. This again is not about the food. So what does he say about the food? I continue to believe that anyone who's convinced Bruni doesn't believe Babbo's food is 4-star is counting on semi-legal technicalities and grasping at straws. All the evidence points to non-food elements (the selection and volume of music, crowding, the speed with which the waiters recite the specials and reset vacated tables, and perhaps the footware of the Executive Chef) as the reason for the restaurant receiving a 3-star and not 4-star rating. The food comes in for nothing but high praise. So while a lawyer like Fat Guy is right that there's no "legally" airtight proof Bruni considers Babbo's food 4-star, there certainly is no evidence that he doesn't, unless you want to make the argument that the 3-star rating necessarily reflects a less-than-4-star food quality, and I think that the entire content of this review shows that that is a pretty weak argument.

That's problematic because it would seem to put your remarks into the realm of rumor.

I would have said Auxerre, for what it's worth.

Thanks, Oakapple. You said in a few words much of what I meant.

Further to Stone's post: I also think egg and "everything" bagels are admissible, but not those monstrosities you mention.

Why is it that some of you love to hate Bouley. Hate is probably too strong a word, but if we use it, isn't a lot of hatred born from unrequited love, anticipation of delight dashed by the sting of bitter disappointment? I never hold myself up as an expert on Bouley and never would, but my two meals so far at 11 Madison Park and one meal so far at L'Impero were far superior to my meal at Bouley. Heck, I've probably had meals at a sizeable handful of restaurants that were superior to my meal at Bouley (a Restaurant Week lunch at the River Cafe about 3 years ago comes to mind), and loads that were more satisfying (because how high one's expectations are plays a role in one's degree of satisfaction - which is a different issue I don't want anyone to confuse with my my use of "superior" above). At the time, I rated it a 3-star meal, but in retrospect, it wasn't - it was a meal that had no-star and 3-star elements to it, but might not have had 4-star elements. 4-star to me should put a restaurant in a 2-to-3 Michelin star quality, and frankly, that's something I have yet to experience anywhere in New York. Now, it's definitely likely that if I returned to Bouley, I'd have a more satisfying meal. You know what? Someone else would have to take me and pay for it. 'Cause there are a lot of other restaurants I can visit for the first time or the fifth or twentieth, and I have no obligation to return to the site of a disappointment. I'll say this, though: If I ever do have occasion to return to Bouley, I'll definitely let Dave know, and I'll definitely post a report on my meal. I do agree with you that the complaint about citrus on seafood as "tired" should raise eyebrows. I don't care whether an idea is old or new if it's good and well-executed.

It probably has to - eventually. Why not give it some time and see how it develops? What's the urgency? I definitely see your point, but I would think it has to be reviewed in the first year of Bruni's tenure at the Times, at least. Could he wait a few more months? Definitely.

Yeah, but tell us what you really thought.

Seth, how was your meal at 66? I hope you post about it when you have a spare moment.

Robyn, we could argue about the "warhorses," but wouldn't you have to agree that Per Se is such a high-profile new restaurant that the Times simply has to review it?

I'm not suprised that it was good. It looks very good!

Sugar free honey is low carb? Is there really such a thing as sugar-free honey? Sucrose-free, sure, but sugar-free???

Would "pan fry" do it? I'm not sure that gets across the whole sense of "poêler."

If Mr. Bruni knew Chef Bouley and his crew were in the process of busting their asses to try to improve the place, didn't Bruni at least owe it to them to mention that and say that he would check up later to see what the results were? I have no problem with the "snapshot," which relates not only to the present but to some time into the past, but perhaps some context was missing - and here I'm not speaking of the more distant past, but of the possible near future.

Gerhard, I loved your foodblog back when, and like the others, I'm happy to see you posting again! You really know how to tell a story, and that photo of the sunset (or sunrise?) is breathtaking!

Your points are well taken, Steven.

That's really not the same. The imported foodstuffs have to travel a distance. If you import a pitmaster to New York, why won't the Q be good?

I see where you're coming from. As a performer, I see my first responsibility as being to myself, to maintain a high standard of performance for my own sake. But a very close second is my responsibility to transmit the meaning of the music to the audience. There's obviously no direct analogy here, but while one assumes that a good writer is motivated above all by pride in the quality of his/her writing, there are certain other responsibilities that come with the role taken by those particular writers who act as critics. One can debate what precisely those special responsibilities are and to what extent each is important (e.g. a responsibility to advocate excellence in the restaurant industry, a responsibility to write reviews that are useful to/interesting to his/her audience), but I don't think it makes sense to consider critics as having no special responsibilities. That said, it seems to me that we differ mainly in emphasis, as you state that a critic does not have direct obligations except to pursue excellence. You clearly imply that the pursuit of excellence will ensure that the critic fulfills the other responsibilities s/he has, and do not suggest that those other responsibilities don't exist at all. I'm not sure whether we disagree if I say that really good writing can be really poor criticism. I'm thinking of Amanda Hesser, a very skilled writer, whose stint as temporary chief New York Times food critic I viewed as highly problematic.

Wow, that's quite a compliment, Kara!

Holly and rich: Wasn't the context that he was discussing desserts after discussing savory dishes, about which he found some complaint?

You're welcome, but Congee Village is way more than just a congee place. Read all about it in the Congee Village thread.

It seemed inescapable to me that Bruni was crediting Babbo with 4* food. He wrote: For goodness sakes. The music is emblematic about the style of the restaurant and the style and execuction of the food. I don't see how anyone has a basis for concluding that the music was emblematic of anything whatsoever having to do with the food. You folks are just too lawyerly. (Are you a lawyer, Bux? I forgot.)