Richard Kilgore

Yes, season or buy pre-seasoned. And after drying it on the stove top, spray or wipe it with some neutral oil and let it heat a little more on top or in the oven.

As one who did not care for the taste of the Sante Fe Chicken sandwich, I thoroughly resent being lumped in with those scurilous food snobs who look down on poor Chardonnay drinkers! As several others have said, I would rather have a Whopper if I have decided to do BK. How egalitarian, yukky-sandwich-embracing can we get?

Whatever you do, make sure it is dead. Many years ago I lived in a garage apartment in Austin while at the University. I discovered that I too had a rodent living in my small gas range, so I set a trap that evening. Next morning the cheese had been successfully removed without even springing the trap. So that night I set it with a piece of salami and went to bed. Sometime in the middle of the night I awoke realizing I was not alone. I opened my eyes and stared down the bed to see a rat sitting on my knee. Calm soul that I am, I merely levitated about three feet vertically and three feet horizontally. The rat ran up the frame of my front door, which I had proped open for the pleasant evening breeze, and perched on top of the door. I staggered back and clear-headedly picked up a sandal, cranked up in my best curve ball pitching form (and thought momentarily, "What makes you think you can kill a rat with a sandal?) and let loose, the sandal neatly crashing through one of the four small windows set in the door. I fumbled around in the dark until I found the other sandal by moonlight, hauled back and after another brief debate with myself about the wisdom of this approach, let loose the sandal and the rat fell dead on the floor. Hmmm? I stood back and thought again, "You can't kill a rat with a sandal at five paces." But the autopsy showed that he had been whacked in the neck by the trap and was coming to get me. Make sure it is dead.

slk -- Yikes!

I am also looking for one to use as a table top for dining as well as prep...about 36X60. (I have a base with a smaller top that is okay for prep, but too small and crowded for dining. Any sources for something this large? I am guessing that end-grain would not be important (or maybe even possible) for something this large. Suggestions?

Thanks for the clarification, Suvir. I have been catching up for the past two weeks following a week vacation. That's just the way it seems to work. So I have not been posting much lately, though I have been following a number of threads. I have been trying to do a peach & mango cobbler or Clafouti for the past week and have not gotten it done yet. Soon...soon. I have been following this thread in interest, because I want to do a few individual desserts like the cheese cakes. What kind of 3 inch pans are you using? Plain aluminum? Are they straight vertical walls? The idea of using the flan rings like alanamona does appeals to me...partly because I can also use them for rustic tarts.

Suvir -- Interesting and helpful thread. Glad you started it. When you say you use "silpat muffin pans", is this something different than the flexipans? If so, how are they different and where do you get them. Do you freeze to release? The Mango cheesecake at Amma sounds wonderful! Thanks, Richard

I made Posole following Huevos del Toro's general directions with Suzanne's technique of cooking it whole until it falls off the bone. This I did Sunday evening, and it tasted quite bland. I thought I must have really blown it. But after sitting for two days (and scraping off the layer of fat on the surface), it is absolutely wonderful tonight. I added a little hot sauce, cilantro and lime while warming it up and simmering for about 15 minutes. Thanks HdT and SuzanneF. Richard

Okay, I'm going to make Posole today. Can anyone give me a rough idea of the ratio of garlic and onion to pork? Thanks, Richard

Pierre Franey suggests an interesting variation -- simply adding small neck clams in the shell. It tastes great and makes a fine visual presentation that enhances the rustic quality of the dish. My favorite version when I can plan ahead.

elyse - Did you check out the COSTCO site for the 350 watt, 5 QT KA? $250 last time I checked.

To speak to the inertia issue that Steven brought up --- This is one of the reasons that it is highly unlikely that the sandwich in question is anything resembling a step in the right direction. It is not that difficult for restaurants to make decent burgers, sandwiches and other dishes for only a little more than BK and its FF betters. As I recall it was in the early 1970s that large chain restaurants shifted from fresh food preped locally in a commissary and distributed daily to their locations, with some done on site. The advent of the microwave oven had something to do with the changes. Perhaps there is a FF historian here who knows more about this period, but I recall that the resulting quality change was the inverse of the change in management control. Management understandably prefers to remove unpredictability from operations, and can lose sight of other important aspects of a business (any business) in the process. I do recall being paricularly appaled in the change from fresh hashbrowns to frozen hasbrowns in one chain. I do not recall any of these restaurants having a problem with employees being able to produce a consistent enough product. These changes provided better management control, or sense of control, over portion control and accountability for waste primarily. Organizations change in the direction of less management control slowly if ever at all, though ocassionally radical changes are attempted. I expect that the established burger chains are more likely to go under than to make the kind of changes we are are discussing. And regardless of whatever RB thinks about his adv, I have a hard time thinking that any marketing professional would think of it as anything other than adding an additional item that will attract another tiny segment into the stores to compete with similar products at the other FF chains. You don't want to lose a car full of burger eaters to the competition because one of six has to have a chicken sandwich. On the other hand, there is a huge opportunity for others to fill the slowly emerging consumer demand for better, fresher, tastier fast food. Today I had a Salmon Teryaki Rice Bowl, $4.92, for lunch. It was tasty, and it was attractive.

Let me mention a few other considerations. Fifi mentioned unavailability in suburbia. That depends upon the suburbs. The Dallas area has an enormous number of good to great small ethnic restaurants in the suburbs as well as within the Dallas city limits. Within five minutes of my home are two very good Thai restaurants, and one each very good Indian, Vietnamese, and two Chinese -- all very reasonably priced ($5 - 9). Also three more-than-acceptable to very, very good Italian places (Tuesday was Lasagna night -- $4.95 included salad and tasty rolls), and many more options if you go another four to five minutes. There are also all the fast food places. The demand is here because an affluent "Asian" population is here, otherwise I would be without. You know one of the things that has trouble making it here is a great Mexican-Mexican restaurant. Villa Maria (white table cloth Mexico City cuisine at bargain prices), one of the two or three best in the area, closed its doors last week, and is due to re-open as a Tex-Mex Grill next week. No demand in the suburb it was in. So why do we eat at the fast food chains? In addition to what has been said, partly the effects of name recognition. Burger King has been around for so long, and there is one everywhere, and the advertising is pervasive. "Ming's Chinese" can't compete for your attention. With BK at least 1) you know what it is (even if every time you drive away snarling about the card board flavor and creepy texture), and 2) you think of it when you think "I'm hungry, gotta grab a bite". It requires less active thinking when you have lots of demands on your time and mental attention. There's security and efficient neuron firing in all that. Another note -- I am not sure that freedom from food prep is going to be the key food issue for this century. If I had to guess without doing more research, I would bet it's going to be simply finding a way to feed the world's rapidly growing population, which will further accelerate population growth and the potential for food shortages.

What I want to know is...how come tanabutler got such a good looking sandwich compared to the one I got?

The net effect of reading this thread about the content of Whoppers and SFCBs (and eating one of the lousy SFCBs) has been to put me off fast foods even further than before. And not just off BK. I did check out Wendy's the next day and they do indeed appear to be cooking them at the time they are ordered, but that didn't convert me. I have been taking my lunch on days I can eat at the office, and otherwise exploring the neighborhood for little non-chain places with lunch for seven bucks or under. Today I had a Kobe Beef Rice Bowl for 4.95 at a place I had never been in before. (Yes that's right folks, Kobe Beef as in Kobe Beef.) The flavor was amazing. It didn't take any longer than driving through the BK drive thru lane, but I did sit down at their sidewalk cafe and enjoy this mid-70s day.) Now, to really avoid the fast food places on a regular basis, I do have to plan a little. But even if I forget and have to run in a grocery store, I can pick up some cheese and fruit in a flash.

Okay, people on this thead have described several situations or issues involved. 1) People who like to cook and have cooked in the past, but for whom it is a very low priority at the time for whatever reasons. For some of the reasons, read on. 2) Women who don't cook because they feel that they can not cook, or admit to liking to cook, and be taken seriously in their careers. How widespread can this be and places like Whole Foods and Central Market and newer competitors for affluent food incomes exist? Are men cooking all this raw food? 3) People who don't cook real food out of a rejection of the sensual aspects of cooking. I guess this might include people who do not see cooking as utilitarian enough, or who become uncomfortable with the pleasures of complex tastes and who prefer flat, relatively tasteless food. 4) People who commit to so many other activities for themselves and their children that they do not allow time for cooking real food (or who perhaps eat out for all meals). 5) A generation of people for whom family warmth and bonding mean eating out at a restaurant (fast food or otherwise), so what would the emotional motivation be for cooking at home? And how high is the skill intimidation factor with people who have grown up on fast foods and "convenience" foods? So let me ask everyone this. When other people react with (fill in the blank -- awe, shock, disgust) that you spend time cooking at home at all), how do you react? When people raise the questions of time, money, skill, what do you say?

Yes unethical, and in these instances illegal, too. But that was not my point, of course. It was that if you set yourself up as a standard bearer for a set of values people are going to have some behavioral expectations of you. Since you and I are not members of the Chef's Collaborative and do not necesarily ascribe to those values, we would not necessarily have the same expectations of RB that his peers do (and his fans who share the same ideals). But some kind of behavioral expectations go with most ideals. And it's not that a "fallen" person can not recover. I would bet my best cast iron skillet that if RB decides he really doesn't like the effect of his endorsement on his reputation or his career (not saying that is the case), he can do even a partial mea culpa and all will be well with the local-sustainable culinary world within a year. Nothing "morally" wrong with branding chips and salsa, or canned and frozen foods for that matter, but you just can't easily cram antithetical disparate images into one brand name and not have it crack a little and pay a price.

How has this thread degenerated into a debate about "food fundamentalism" vs. "food relavitism"? Why would you think that high profile advocacy of any set of values would not carry with it certain behavioral expectations by the public (see my lawyer and doctor examples above)? The people you are calling fundmentalists here have by and large been upset or even outraged, but have not shown disrespect for other people's beliefs. But why would you expect that people with the same values RB espouses would not come to look at him differently because of the ads? Many people in this field and others develop their name into a carefully constructed brand, which may or may not be a reflection of the individual. When you do something that doesn't fit with the brand image, something is going to change. It doesn't mean that you may not make a lot of money with the change, but things will change. Hard to imagine that he has not thought this through and made a conscious decision to go a different direction in order to trade on his brand name, although that is possible, since people shoot themselves in the career foot all the time. No way to know. Woody --- you sound like you are arguing with yourself. Are you seriously arguing that it RB knew what the real sandwich would be and it was going to have about 20% of the vegetetables in the ads?" And this is a good thing?

Tommy -- If you don't know anything about the Chef's Collaborative, then you have not been following the points that most people here have been making, not bothered to follow the links to it to find out. While some people have been offering very strong opinions, I am not sure how anyone comes up with labeling them "fundamentalist" or "fanatic". I don't feel nearly as strongly as some, partly because Rick Bayless has not been a persoanl ideal for me and I knew nothing about the Chef's Collaborative until this thread. But I have had a few reactions to the thread contents. The first is that after reading the detail on the contents of BK Whoppers and the Sante Fe Chicken Sandwich, I have a hard time stopping for any fast food outlet even when very pressed for time. Second, I did try the sandwich and found the chicken itself edible, but the sauce, onions, peppers and bread pretty miserable. Third, while I still have not seen the TV adv, and so am a little reluctant to comment, from the news interviews and Jinmyo's report of the adv content -- it is a very odd career move and I can't but think that he would do this knowing full well that people who are interested in sustainable local foods and good cooking would be anywhere from upset to outraged. Fourth, people do make judgements of people based on how they make money all the time: judges who take bribes; doctors who write prescriptions for addicts to make a couple of obvious examples of people who publicly advocate a high standard while doing something quite different. Fourth, I still think Fat-Guy made the critical point when he said early on something to the effect that you can sell your reputation...but then you don't get to keep it. Fifth, this may all blow over in a year and I doubt it will effect RB's restaurant business much if at all, but I have a hard time imagining it will have no effect on his career at all in some way. For all I know, he could do very well financially doing TV promotions for all sorts of frozen or processed Mexican foods, his brand or others BK, Taco Bell, Taco Bueno, Chipolte Grill). But I don't think he can do those things and still present himself as a standard bearer for locally grown, sustainable, unprocessed, well cooked foods.

Thanks again Tony and thanks kuenzlen. So we've accounted for ugali (boiled maze meal), Cassava (mohgo in Swahili, she says), M'Chuzi (stew or curry), sukuma wiki (green vegetable), roasted corn on the cob, Irio (beans and corn dish), and goat, chicken and fish (in the stews and curries or roasted). Anything else, or any more detail on the curries or stews? What are the curries and stews cooked in -- cast iron, clay pots? Long, slow stew or short? Is the Indian food in Kenya similar to what we have in the U.S.? If not, what is it like? Other Asian foods popular there?

I'm steamed, too, reggie. Those long lines at Burger King are a real pain, aren't they?

This is a spin-off of a thread in Food Media. The issue of why people avoid preparing real food, as opposed to "convenience food" was raised. Tommy mentioned that there are time, money, and life-style barriers. I think his question points in a helpful direction -- what are the internal barriers to preparing real food. What beliefs get in people's way? How do people make it harder than necesssary. And where does the motivation come from to actually surmount the barriers, perceived or real? Have you always prepared real food, or is that a change that occured at some point? If a change in your approach, what influenced you -- an article, a book, a friend, some life circumstance?

In the Dallas story, they interviewed several vendors and customers. The vendors felt that not being able to offer samples is hurting their sales and the customers were disappointed at not being able to tell what was offered for sale. Sampling has been the norm here for a long time.

I caught most of a news story on one of the Dallas stations about the city's efforts at renewing the Farmer's Market. Two major issues: in cracking down on code violations, they are now prohibiting tasting samples of produce --- no little slice of apple or peach anymore. Which slams right up against the second problem: a lot of the stalls are not farmers. These folks just buy produce out of a warehouse somewhere and sell grocery store quality produce. So if you can't TASTE the produce, how can you tell what you are getting? Someone told me a few months ago to look at the people selling the produce. If they look like they haven't had much sleep lately, they're farmers. Is this a problem in other Texas cities?

I hope theabroma finds this thread. On another one she mentioned that frozen huitlacoche is much, much better than canned. So does anyone know of a supplier for frozen in Texas?