Chelseabun

Many thanks. Cake flour or any bleached flour is not permitted in the UK so i am working on making noodles using only unbleached flour (all purpose flour). I am currently making approx. half pound batches using high protein flour, water and salt and formed into dough using my food processor. There is no recipe as there are too many variables and so i am monitoring it as it blends, adding more flour or water as required. I hope you liked the photo of my local windmill. I added it to show how natural flour can be and that it may not be necessary to use highly processed flours and harsh chemicals to make noodles.

This is my usual flour supplier. The flour is untreated unbleached organic stoneground flour.

Batch five was very good. It was stretchy and I was able to make my first attempt at pulling noodles.

I saw a video online earlier where they used 1/3 'all purpose' flour to 2/3 semolina. Have not tried it but there is no reason that will not work - semolina I think is very high in gluten. I will be doing batch five later. I will add approximately 20% of last nights dough into it as a sort of primer.

Ok, done a fourth batch. It is pretty much there now. The dough is nice and stretchy and I am getting close to the point where I can start making noodles from it. My technique isn't all that yet but everything is looking promising. I looked up Chinese flour using Google translate. The flour I looked at said it had benzoyl peroxide 'applied'. So there you go, it looks like the Chinese use bleached flour as well.

Hi I have read your posts with interest. I am very impressed with your work on this. Don't worry about my first attempt to replicate your batch not working. It wasn't done very scientifically my end so doesn't really count - it was just a first go. I will be ordering up some equipment later (thermometer in particular) and will go again with it. I need to buy a new dough hook for my Kenwood chef and get out my food processor. If you want to, look up 'Chorley' process online you will work out what I am doing with the food processor. I am going to order some powdered gluten to experiment with as well. I read up on 'Kate flour' but from experience with bread want to take the Chorley method. Food scientists appear to have been working on methods of using cheap flour (i.e. low protein) in bread making (that usually requires expensive imported high protein flour) for many years. The cake flour method modifies the properties of the flour itself and the Chorley method is a different method of producing the gluten itself. Don't worry about our different terminology for describing the dough. I know what you mean and you know what I mean so no probs. Yesterday's eight hour batch turned out to be five hours (time restraints). Again it was not scientifically done but no difference was discernible. The Spelt came from Sainsbury's probably next to the flour you have already been buying. I also purchase spelt from my local windmill (yes I do have one of those nearby) but I believe it might be a blend (I use it for my bread machine because it makes a wonderful brown loaf when mixed with strong white flour). For now I am staying with Sainsbury's flour products so that anything I make can be reproduced by others. I read the BBC article too. Not sure what to make of it. I'll keep an open mind. On the subject of media, if you check out BBC I Player quickly the latest Chinese food made easy episode covers noodles (available until 11:59 on 9th June 2013) http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00cv4gq/Chinese_Food_Made_Easy_Noodles_Dim_Sum_and_Dumplings/ Yes, egg noodles is on my menu too but I am working on plain noodles first. Once I have a useable base recipe for noodles, I also plan to add a touch of turmeric to the dough at the outset so as to get it a very slight colour (more appetising)

Correction to the above post: The last bullet point should have read "low protein flour can also develop higher levels of gluten if the gluten is developed using the Chorley method".

Fresh yeast is already activated. Keeping it at lower temperatures will slow it down but it will eventually die. I keep fresh yeast a couple of weeks in the refrigerator with no problems.

Do you mean the feral pigeons that you see in towns and city centres? If so, please consider these are often baited by local councils/ local authorities and they may not be safe to eat if they have eaten poison. Pests often build up a resistance to poisons and require ever increasing amounts of poison to eradicate them. Furthermore, you do not know what they have been eating and I am sure they would not taste very pleasant.

If you have got this far down this thread - well done. You must be craving hand pulled noodles! I should though re-cap a few points. I live in the UK and 'cake flour' is not permitted here (or anywhere in Europe). The recipes online for noodles use cake flour.The Chinese use a noodle agent. I wish to make natural noodles without the chemical additives (especial those which would normally be used to clean the drain). The dough needs to have elasticity so that it will pull and plasticity so that it will retain it's shape. This is achieved by gluten in the dough which is formed from proteins contained in the flour.The low protein 'cake' flour develops gluten because (as I understand it) of bleaching altering the chemistry of the flour (enabling the proteins that form gluten to more readily do so - thereby allowing a low protein flour to form gluten levels normally only achievable using high protein flour.Low protein flours can also develop higher levels of protein if the gluten is developed using the 'Chorley' method.My next steps will be to improve the spelt flour noodles and to make up some batches of dough with plain flour using the Chorley method. Hopefully this will result is some edible noodles.

Wow, attempt three has been a massive success. I used wholemeal spelt flour (older type of wheat flour) with warm water (temperature not measured) in a ratio of 5 parts flour to 3 parts water. I added half a teaspoon of salt and kneaded in the bread machine on the dough setting. It had 20min kneading followed by one hour proving (20+ degrees). The dough came out very wet and sticky. However, I noticed immediately that it had elasticity. Within a short time of working the dough, I could pull the dough in the same manner as per the videos i.e. it could roll to shoulder length and then pull (in a quick movement) to arms length. Since the dough was wet, it's plasticity was not very good. However, there is room for improvement and I might need to adjust the dough / water proportions or water temperature or proving temperature. Once flour was added, the dough gained plasticity but lost some elasticity. A definite success though and not bad for my third attempt. The flour btw was 13.3 % protein and was purchased at Sainsbury's. Approximately half of the batch was put aside and covered with plastic film for an eight hour rest.

Not seen them in the UK. Its a variety with a yellow colour. I thought the whole point of eating carrots was the beta-carotene? It would be interesting to juice them. Yellow carrot juice anybody?

Ideally it would be better to read the original research the article was based on to make a comment. However, it does indicate the levels used in the research were very high. It is important I think to a balanced view. I am sure there will be more research (if not already) to quantify how much represents a risk. In terms of priority (and risk), I would like to cut down the quantity of processed meet I consume before I consider how much char is on my food. However, it is albeit still something to bear in mind. The white Lion in my photo btw only consumes raw meat (still moving if it has the opportunity no doubt).

When I made elderflower wine some years ago, I soaked the elderflowers in boiling water. I always remove stems where possible and when making wine, all of the equipment is thoroughly cleaned beforehand. The recipe above looks good. the addition of a small amount of lemon and additional ascorbic acid is a good idea. You might want to look up some elderflower wine recipes too (minus the fermentation part naturally). Let us know how it turns out please.

ok, have just completed my second attempt. I have dough all over me, the kitchen worktop, the walls and the floor. I kept to same recipe as above except that I made a larger batch and used my bread machine on the dough setting to knead the dough. A dough rest of one hour was incorporated into the dough setting. Temperature of the bread machine whilst proving was unknown but I would guess 20+ degrees or more. I was able to work the dough this time and started to pull some noodles. However the dough remained short and ripped very easily. Therefore, no usable noodles were made. I noticed that commercial noodles have potassium carbonate in them and some also contain sodium carbonate. I am not sure though that I wish to add a lot of chemicals to the dough. However, I may try a different approach. On the basis that the Chinese have been making wheat noodles for 2000+ years, I will try batch three using Spelt. An older form of wheat may have different properties more suitable for making noodles.

I have just tried the kleinebre method as above. I used 10.3% and 12.1% protein flour in a 50:50 blend with cold water in a 5 part flour to 3 part water ratio. I added a teaspoon of salt and half a teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda. The dough was gently mixed and left to stand for 12 hours in a bowl covered with plastic film wrap. Unfortunately the resultant dough was very short. After a lengthy period of kneading it was still very short. When pulled even very gently, the dough ripped. Furthermore, the dough had a very unappetising 'enzyme' aroma. I will try again and keep you posted.