Craig Camp

It's what all the smart pigeons are eating this year. Don't mind me I'm heading back over to the wine forum where it is safer.

Well, he commented on their age. Is that a snap judgement? Forgive me if there was more. I only read it once. Not if you are in danger of losing your liquor license by serving a minor. She was 22 - I'm surprised they did not ask for an ID.

I sorry, but I seem to be lost. I thought this was an eGullet thread somehow related to Italian food. Could you direct me to the right thread.

I'm on it. Seriously. Thanks Varmint, but I'm busy that day. Let me know how it comes out - or should we say where it comes out.

It is called a profit center.

...uuhh thanks for the response, but I just really did not know what you meant by 'celebrity' and 'very nice'. I was just hoping for a clarification. Guess I have it. As far as how many you must go to I guess I would say at least more than one. If you don't go to at least two how do you know if you have had a typical experience. I feel that part of Adam's problem with Trotter's was that he had a chip on his shoulder. obviously this is something that you can relate to.

Yes, I think there are times when the untrained palate will prefer the simple Barsac because they would find the d'Yquem too complex and intensely flavored. I have actually seen things like this happen many times. Well, why didn't you send me their glass of yquem? I did my duty and drank it myself.

C'mon Tommy the bread is great in Lombardia. Didn't you like the bread at Boccondivino?

Yes, I think there are times when the untrained palate will prefer the simple Barsac because they would find the d'Yquem too complex and intensely flavored. I have actually seen things like this happen many times.

Trio is your first celebrity restaurant, but you've been to very nice places indeed? What does that mean?

For 20 years, Soter, 51, was one of Napa's most successful winemaking consultants, giving advice and services to wineries that today are among the cult Cabernet Sauvignon-producing elite -- Araujo, Dalla Valle, Niebaum- Coppola, Shafer, Spottswoode and Viader. He added his own Napa Valley brand, Etude Wines -- high-end Pinot Noir, Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot and Pinot Blanc -- to his repertoire in 1982, and by 1997 owned a 45-acre vineyard parcel in Oregon's Willamette Valley, where he makes Pinot Noir and sparkling wine.

John Cleese is ready to start wining. The "Monty Python" star has agreed to host a Food Network special aimed at "debunking the myths and fussiness that make wine intimidating to the average person," according to an announcement Wednesday by the cable channel.

I think that is entirely reasonable too. However I sincerely doubt that he really needed to apologize for not ordering wine. In fact, I bet it is almost a nightly experience for the staff at Trotter's as many people do not drink. Also when you are as famous as Trotter's you have a constant stream of customers who do not have a clue what the restaurant is about. They only go because it is famous and because they can afford it. Not every customer that walks into Trotter's is an experienced diner who is there for the art. I bet the staff prefers enthusiastic young dinners on a budget to nasty people who are just there because they have money. Confused, nervous paranoid customers who are sure they are getting somehow ripped off or put down create a very confusing (and often no-win) situation for the wait staff - no matter what they do it's wrong.

Seeing what Jim pays for wines will just frustrate you. He is a very savvy shopper.

By the way I bet they made that Bellini with the Ca’ del Bosco, Franciacorta Brut NV. That makes an expensive Bellini.

Every restaurant has it characteristics and personality. That is why we choose one over the other. Part of the Trotter's personality are many small dishes of distinct and focused flavors. If this is not the kind of dining experience you want do not go to Trotter's. As I have mentioned before in all the times I had the pleasure to dine at Trotter's I never once left hungry. The current Grand Menu includes eight courses and it is really more like 10 or 12 or maybe more. The Kitchen Table menu includes 17 courses and in reality may approach 25 by the time they are done with you. Believe me no matter how small the portions are you are not hungry after such an experience. I remember years ago that every time I would dine at Le Francais, the famous (now gone) classic French restaurant of Jean Banchet, that I would sleep terribly and wake up the next day with a food hang-over. I'll take the Trotter's experience thank you. The wine list at Trotter's has also always featured many choices at reasonable prices. For instance if you look at the current selections they match with the Grand Menu there are nothing but interesting and well selected wines that all sell at moderate prices. These wines are listed below: Bruno Paillard "Premiere Cuvee" Brut NV Tim Adams Riesling, Clare Valley 2002 Schiopetto Pinot Bianco, Collio 2001 Lemelson "Thea's Selection" Pinot Noir, Willamette 2000 Sirita Cabernet Sauvignon, Napa 2000 Coteaux du Layon "Cuvee La Paon" Domaine des Baumard 2001 Smith-Woodhouse 10 Year Old Tawny Port The current wine by the glass selection would also allow someone to select one or two glasses to enjoy with their meal without breaking the bank: Champagne / Sparkling Veuve Clicquot Ponsardin "La Grande Dame" Brut 1993 $57.00 Bruno Paillard "Premiere Cuvee" Brut NV $21.00 Ca’ del Bosco, Franciacorta Brut NV $12.00 Whites Tim Adams Riesling, Clare Valley 2002 17.00 Schiopetto Pinot Bianco, Collio 2001 $16.00 Garretson "Table 62" Viognier, Santa Barbara 2001 $15.00 Chassagne-Montrachet "Les Caillerets" M. Colin 2000 $22.00 Gallo "Estate" Chardonnay, Sonoma 1998 $18.00 Rose Bandol Rose Domaine Tempier 2001 $10.00 Reds W.H. Smith "Hellenthal Vineyard" Pinot Noir, Sonoma Coast 1999 $24.00 Chinon "Les Granges" B. Baudry 2001 $11.00 Mauro, Castilla y Leon 1998 $15.00 Silver Oak Cabernet Sauvignon, Alexander Valley 1999 $35.00 Hewitson "L'Oizeau" Shiraz, McLaren Vale 1999 $15.00 These are all nice wines and not the kind of selections you would make if you were out to gouge the customer. Also, having met all the sommeliers that have worked at Trotter's over the years I am absolutely certain that each of them would take the time to accommodate the needs and interests of every customer no matter their age or budget. For instance some of these wines listed below from their current list: Macon-Prisse "En Chailloux" Thibert-Parisse 2001 $31 Pommard "Clos de la Platiere" Prince de Merode 1998 $59 Amity Pinot Blanc, Willamette 2000 $25 Roter Veltliner Manterhof, Kremstal 2000 $33 Frankland Estate "Olmo's Reward" Frankland River 1998 $55 Chianti Classico "Riserva" Fattoria Valtellina 1998 $33 Blason d'Issan 2000 $63 Graacher Himmelreich Riesling Spatlese S. Prum 2001 $27 Cantina Terlano "Classico" Alto Adige 2000 $30 (one of the best deals in white wine on the planet).

Very good points - a few questions: Why is it so hard to find Dal Forno in the USA. Not that there is a lot here, but you can find it at any serious enoteca - and some not so serious. When did EP change the pricing policy on their wine list. It used to be reasonable, but went through the roof at some point. I have not been back in years because of the food so I am not clear when this change occured. Aimo y Nadia has been a personal disappointment for many lately and they certainly have used the change to Euros to jack up their wine list prices. Did you go recently? You brought up Il Desco before - I have asked this question over and over without an answer. I have eaten there several times times and always been underwhelming and I have never seen a positive review here - what am I missing about the food there? You should make a tidy sum on that 2000 Lafite if you can resist drinking it!

A very tasty wine - a great value - here and there.

OK- all prices in US Dollars with today's exchange rate: 1999 Fontodi Flaccianello Sam's Chicago 75.99 Enoteca San Domenico Siena 44.26 1999 Sassicaia Enoteca Parenti Bologna 148.98 PJ's Manhattan 160.00 1999 Siepi Fonterutoli Enoteca Parenti Bologna 68.12 The Wine Specialist Washington DC 92.99 1999 Ornellaia Enoteca Parenti Bolgona 145.98 Sam's Chicago 145.99 2000 Felsina Fontalloro Wine Exchange LA (Orange County) 49.99 Parma Grocery, Parma 32.77 What can we deduce from this? That Ornellaia is expensive everywhere.

This is exactly the point. You don't even have to find some obscure label. Fontodi Flaccianello, a famous label - is half the price - and is an equal (if not better) wine than over-marketed status symbols like Tignanello.

Not at all. Being disappointed with famous brands is hardly unusual.

Yeah, but Petrus doesn't have a screw cap! Yet.

I have to admit even here in Italy where there are really no significant taxes on wines and the stores buy directly from the producer is is damn hard to find a decent bottle under Euro 5.00. I mean really how can the producer do it and make a decent living if they are not pumping out every ounce of wine out of every vine they just can't stay in business. Spending a few Euro or Dollars more makes all the difference. The Trescone is tasty by the way.

Great point. There are so many great wines now that if you insist on getting ripped off or obsessed with a certain producer -- what happens to your pocketbook is your own fault. As I have recently been tasting through quite few of the newly released 2000 vintage Barbaresco wines what strikes me is how amazingly high the average quality level is these days. Once upon a time wines like Gaja were on a totally different level of quality than their competitors -- this is no longer the case. If you have to have Gaja, Solaia and the others in the world like them don't complain about the cost. You don't have to spend that much to get great wine and if you are unwilling to do your homework or have an open mind you will have to pay the price.

You are only looking at a very narrow and famously overpriced section of the Italian wine market. If you insist on buying "aia" wines you will certainly prove your point on Italian wine. The increase in the price for Solaia has little to do with the conversion to Euro or an overall increase in Italian wine pricing. There is no reason to buy any of the Antinori related wines when there are so many other wines from that region that surpass them in quality at much lower prices. Tignanello has to be one of the worst values in Italy. If you insist on these wine you are paying for other things and must bear the cost - that is the price of the ticket. I am sure you can find better prices at Costco because the stores in Toscana are priced based on what tourists will spend not on what Italians will buy. One of the advantages of living in Lombardia is that we are not overwhelmed by tourists and the stores here price based on what Italians will buy. It is worth noting that wines like Tignanello and Solaia are 'export' wines that only show up on wine lists frequented by foreigners. There are just too many other outstanding wines in Italy today to be obsessed with the 'aia' wines.