Craig Camp

Steve - do you remember the date of that thread?

Don't get me wrong - I LOVE the 82 Sori Tilden. I only have 4 bottles left and I am waiting a few more years before drinking them. On a very sad note the bottle that I opened lasted year was corked.

The 20 point scale is really a 40 point scale because it uses half points. My primary exposure to Coates is his Bordeaux book which I find useless. Point well taken - for some reason (maybe just habit) I find it quicker and useful in jogging my memory to what I thought. I agree concerning Coates and Bordeaux - let's face it Parker is the leader on Bordeaux. As far as Steve's point I agree he pays a lot of attentions to the shippers, but that is very important in the UK market. Gotta sell books you know.

Peter Wasserman is in the wine trade with Vineyard Expressions in NYC. He has a great palate and knows Burgundy top to bottom (as you would expect!) When and where was the thread you are refering to - on the Squires board? Can I still track it down there?

Steve – Spectacular wine references and comments. The drinking of such wines leads you down the path to Nirvana. The 1961 Gaja brings back a particularly sweet memory. In the early eighties when no one here had heard of Gaja, I had the pleasure to play a small part in introducing his wines to Chicago. Two or three times a year Angelo would come to Chicago, I would pick him up at the airport and for three or four days we would hit the road with a bag full of samples. It is hard to imagine Angelo now going from retail store to retail store where they would taste his wines out of plastic cups, often not considering them seriously because they were Italian. On his first trip his English was – shall we say – lacking, but within three years his English was excellent and he was an emerging superstar. I resent his jealous detractors now because I remember the hard work and dedication it took him to accomplish all he has done. The 1961 Gaja recalls a unique evening with Angelo and the special man that was our host. In the early 80’s, Italian dining in the United States was a culinary wasteland (some would argue this is still so but that’s for another thread). Marv Magid was the ‘food soul’ of the growing Lettuce Entertain You empire and had created what at that time was the best Italian restaurant in the United States, the long gone Avanzare. In 1984, Marv invited about fifteen of his best customers for a dinner to celebrate the fifth anniversary of the opening of Avanzare. The guest of honors for the evening where Angelo and Neil Empson, the outstanding shipper of Italian wines. Marv had been planning the evening for many months and we had obtained from Angelo two cases of his 1961 Barbaresco just for the event. The evening was a sumptuous affair and when the first of the evenings two main courses arrived the waiters began pouring the 1961 into oversize balloon wine glasses. Now these waiters had been trained by Lettuce Entertain You and there are many things they drill into you there, but one thing every server knows at Lettuce – never let the water or the wine glasses get empty. With military precision they keep the wine coming and with equal dedication every one at the table kept drinking that spectacular wine. By the time the second main course was finished the twenty of us had consumed all twenty-four bottles – not a drop was left in a glass. Needless to say a good time was had by all. Marv Magid was a great gentleman, a great lover of fine food and was the food conscience on the management side of Lettuce Entertain You. Unfortunately, Marv was killed in a helicopter accident during his honeymoon in Hawaii not too long after this incredible evening. Lettuce was never the same without him. The 1961 Gaja Barbaresco is a wine of history as when Angelo took over the winemaking - his first vintage was 1973 – he changed everything. It is a dramatic comparison to compare the 1961 to the powerful and oak laced 1982 Sori Tilden. I hope I get the chance. Now for me this is a great Italian food memory. I don't remember what the dishes were and I am sure by my standards today they weren't great, but the experience heightened my appreciation of serious dining and the symphony that can be created by food and wine served in harmony and enjoyed with others of like mind.

I guess I am showing my age and never thought about problems with the 20 point scale. I spent years using this scale before Parker came the scene and changed everyone to the 50 point scale. I admit I still use the 20 point scale at massive tastings like Vinitaly as I find it very efficient. I also find myself often in agreement with Coates scores. My training in Burgundy came from Becky Wasserman and I made many tasting trips with her there in the 80's. I still think her palate is as good as the come for choosing 'terroir' Burgundies. I think Coates has a similar palate and I find I relate to it well.

Steve - excellent comments on Parker and Burgundy. For those looking for a more ....uhhh enlightened look at Burgundy and other wines, may I suggest: The Fine Wine Reveiw by Claude Kolm (finewinereview@attglobal.net ) The Vine by Clive Coates (www.clivecoates.com)

Why would you want to? Might as well eat in a labroratory with a white coat on. What's food and wine without a little romance.

Thanks that was great - my mouth is watering now. I will add this to my list.

Can't wait, but I have to. I am currently tied up in Chicago on business for the next month or so ---- when I get back I am on my way! Hope its not too late!

This leads to the inevitable question - what is Italian cooking? Eating in Bari or in Balzano are quite different experiences. Our house is in Lombardia is in the same town my wife’s parents live in, her mother grew up there, but her father is from Trentino (in Cles for those Teroldego fans out there). What they eat is a mixture of the two regions. My wife’s best friend’s parents are from Calabria and moved to Lombardia before she was born – their kitchen is still totally from their home region even after 30 years of living in the north. My wife’s family eats risotto several times a week; her friend has never had risotto at home. They live five kilometers apart. There are so many wonderful dishes it seems impossible to recount them all. Then there is the difference between restaurant food and home cooking. It is staggering to think that a country the size of Arizona can offer such a myriad of cooking styles. My favorite dishes? My wife’s grandmothers Vitello Tonnato – it absolutely melts in your mouth The risotto con funghi at Peca Vecia (Veneto) The orecchiette with anchovies, rapini and bread crumbs at Torrente Antico in Trani (Puglia) The simply roasted chicken at Oasi degli Angeli in Cupra Maritima (Marche) The apple strudel at the pasticceria on the piazza in Cles (Trentino) The panzanella (bread salad) made by Maria Flora Fuligni and nephew Roberto Guerrini Fuligni, who own the famous Brunello estate of the same name. (Tuscany) The Osso Bucco at Trattoria Campagna in the woods outside Arona just above Lago Maggiore (Piedmont) The pasta al forno made by our friend in Palermo, Loredonna. (Sicilia) and on and on and on………………………….. What’s my favorite dish? I like to believe that I have not had it yet.

It depends what you are in the mood for - sometimes I prefer Die Hard with my sandwich while other nights I like to live it up and have it with Citizen Kane (when I do this I always add fresh rucola), but I usually don't tell 'serious' collectors this because they never like action movies with any dish. Sometimes I get wild and crazy and try a really adventurous match like Osso Buco with Last Tango in Paris or Roman Holiday with Ris de Veau. The other day I had Vita e Bella with a Cheeseburger (with Heinz of course), who would have thought that would be a good match - it was sublime. Sometime rules are made to be broken.

OK OK - you just get my dander up some times - but only in the nicest way. It just seems to me that you find a reference point you like and then everything that varies from it is crap.

Try a pocket dictionary.

Why don't we argue over which beer now? It seems Steve that you live life like the beginning of the Wizard of Oz. Monocromatic. The rest of us are happy to live in Oz tasting flavors from around the world with pleasure. Do you realize how bitter you sound?

How do you travel? What do these people think of you? You must have attended the Ghengis Kahn language school. Don’t bother to learn the language – just overrun them. You will never really touch a culture without learning at least a bit of their language. Something simple like, “vorrei un Tylenol per piacere”.

Steve you have many good arguments but this? I assure you the pharmacist at Michigan Ave. and Chicago Ave. in the heart of the tourist section of Chicago doesn't speak German, French, Italian or .......................................... Someone probably speaks Spanish but that's it. Many times I have seen tourists from Europe in the US struggling with a needed service because of limited English. New York, Chicago and San Francisco are filled with European tourists every year and they are much more on their own then we are in Europe - where in a major city if you persist you will find someone who speaks English. Americans certainly do not have the right to to complain about people not speaking our lanquage. We are the worst in the world at it. It Italy Berlusconi just passed a law requiring 2 foreign lanquages to be taught from the beginning of grade school. The USA is a long way from that.

The "standard" recipe for 2 14" baguettes is 3 1/2 cups "bread" flour, active yeast dissolved in 1 1/3 cups of water (more or less), 2 1/4 tsps of salt, and 1 Tbs of wheat or rye flour. The dough goes through three rises of 1-1.5 hours each at 70-75 degress F. After each of the first two rises, the dough is firmy kneeded and pushed firmly to deflate them and distribute the yeast throughout the dough. The loaves are formed after the second rising. They are baked in a stone lined oven, with steam at the start, at 450 degrees F for 20 minutes or so, and another 10 minutes, give or take, at 400 degrees F. When the internal temp of the loaf reaches 200 degrees F, they are done. Assuming this recipe is followed and good quality ingredients are used, how can quality decline. Are the bakers using crummy flour, rushing the rises, or doing a lousy job of kneading? They go through the last rising already in loaf shape - then are just put in the oven? The oven is at 450 then you lower the temperature or do you need to change ovens?

This is a great recipe and great advice. The classic accompaniment is Risotto Milanese (Italian rice with Saffron), but many people also serve it with polenta when they are cooking at home. This is a good excuse to bring out a mature Barbaresco or Barolo.

Something must of gotten lost in the translation here? I think free enterprise is allowed in Italy too, without it destroying all cultural integrity. I was not trying to defend Peter - from the looks of his posts he needs no help.

While there is little violent crime in Italy - many cars are, shall we say, borrowed permanently.

I think the comment refers to the fact that American tourists carry such ecomomic clout that even hotels in Rome change their menus to cater to them - not because they are stupid but because they have money.

By the way that's funny - good line.

Who cares why Italy is like that? Is it really that difficult to pay the cashier first? It never seems to hurt my enjoyment of my coffee. It never even seemed to be a point to really think about. I just had to figure out the system the first time I went to Italy and that was that – I never thought about it again except to explain it to first time visitors. Part of the enjoyment of going different places is that people do things differently. Why would anyone want the world to be the same just to accomplish some minor efficiency?

I am certain that I don't need to point this out to you, but Calera makes wines that age very well. With your extensive tasting experience of this winery, please let us know which of the single vineyards you prefer and which one ages the best. Perhaps you could provide us with your tasting notes on this wine as some other older Pinots to back up your comments? The fact that you cannot find one California Pinot Noir that is any good is enlightening.