Craig Camp

By the way - I agree about Milano - there are many better places in Italy to eat. Strange with all that money there.

Sad but true. That's how I fell about Italy. Great wine is great wine - sorry I missed it.

Clape will be supprised to hear this about Cornas. That is the point of Barbera vivace with pizza it is not a serious wine and take a chill well. Barbera vivace is a different animal than serious Barbera. I think there will be a long list of great winemakers in Italy that will disagree with you that Barbera cannot make excellent wine. Perhaps this follows the Zinfandel argument. I would agree with many of the comments on this thread that Zinfandel is not a great wine, but does make very good ones - Barbera is in the same league. There are few better matches with the monster steaks served at American steak houses than Zinfandel. These thick steaks are seriously charred on the outside even when cooked only to rare and the fruity intensity of Zinfandel matches here better than more tannic and complex wines.

Always glad to be existential. Many of the most interesting new chefs (and some older ones) are often opening under the name ‘Osteria’. As the beginning of the Slow Food guide puts so well, this name no longer means what it used to in Italy and often implies innovative kitchens and thoughtful wine lists. This includes formal presentations although the atmosphere is not stuffy. These are restaurants where innovative ITALIAN cuisine is served on beautiful china and the wine is poured into the exact type of Reidel for that wine. Yes there are casual trattoria style restaurants in the guide but if you don’t take some time to do some research you will never find the gems. The Gambero Rosso likes its restaurants and wine the same way – big and overblown.

Exactly!!! Steve I would suggest you are using the wrong guide. Try the Osterie guide from Slow Food if you want to eat great Italian food. When I eat at the top Italian restaurants in the Gambero Rosso guide I feel like I could be eating in the top rated Italian restaurants New York or Chicago, or anywhere else where they are desperately trying ruin true Italian cooking. And then a question - How long can a restaurant remain great? When we return to a restaurant after many years how can we be sure that it not us that have changed - not the restaurant?

Steve, What about Hermitage and Cornas? Some pretty serious shadows there. You don't believe there are any interesting Pinot Noirs grown outside of Burgundy? Where do I buy this mouthwash you are using? Have you never tried a good Barbera vivace with pizza?

Zinfandel toothpaste - is this from Tom's of Maine?

Actually the 'spina' wine they sell in most pizzerias is fizzy and a lot more like Coca Cola than Chianiti. It washes down a pizza just as well as Coke - but not as well as beer.

Italians associate pizza and beer. Look around you at any pizzeria and you will see almost everyone drinking beer instead of wine.

You are on a roll with Spanish wines - I saw your note about the Albarino over at Therapy. Was this for the same guest? I have dusted off my black armband and am wearing it today it sympathy with your loss. My sincere condolences.

I am desolated. I have just discovered that I have wasted twenty five years. On the table beside me is the reason for my desolation. The headline on the page is large and sears into my soul. “Every dish has a perfect wine. It is just a matter of discovering the match,” says the article on Il Capriccio restaurant near Boston in La Cucina Italiana magazine’s March issue. The perfect wine for each dish? Just discovering the match? Then they make things worse by recommending two different wines for each recipe. Which one is perfect? Why not just tell us the perfect one? What a cruel joke. With the Osso Bucco they recommend 1997 Martilde Ghiro d’Inverno or 1999 Vacca Lange Rosso. This is particularly devastating as I have eaten and made Osso Bucco countless times, as it is one of my favorite dishes, and I only just now discover that I have not had the experience of matching it with ‘the perfect wine’. Now I must begin my search so that I can discover which of these wines is the perfect one. How can I live without that experience? It is sad to think that all of those wonderful wines I have had over the years with Osso Bucco are now somewhat less than I thought they were – after all they are not one of the two possible ‘perfect wines’. Now I know the 1982 Lafite, the 1985 Marcarini Barolo Brunate, the 1987 Spottswoode and other wines that I had enjoyed with Osso Bucco over the last few years were all somehow lacking as a food and wine match. What a shame, I had thought they were quite good. I am embarrassed by my failure to realize these wines were really not the perfect match that I was supposed to be searching for, surfers search for the perfect wave and now we must search for the perfect wine and food match. Well take heart and begin your search anew. Knowledge is power. Now that we know there is one perfect wine out there for each dish we can begin our search. It only makes me sad to know that with so many dishes and so many wines to experiment with that I will miss having the ‘perfect wine’ with so many dishes. Hopefully you will have learned this younger than me so that you have more time.

Beautiful! Great comment SFJ.

I have had the pleasure to drink many of Josh's wines over the years. I know it may not be fashionable but for me these are the most interesting California Pinots because of the characteristics you describe. All age well but perhaps Reed the most gracefully.

Calera Pinot Noir, Reed, 1983 Brilliant translucent scarlet orange. Expansive, elegant aromas filled with very ripe dark fruits and earthy saddle leather notes. Full of spices, cinnamon. Full, rich, broad mouth-filling flavors. Ripe fruit very apparent on the palate but with very complex other flavors - spices, earth, wood, leather. The finish is stunning, complex and long - warm with just a hint of tannin at the end. Absolutely coats your mouth. An outstanding wine at its peak. The best California Pinot I can remember tasting.

Steve - by the way I am enjoying the debate in that other thread - great fun and good sport!

Yes --- www.vinoalvino.com

I guess that is my point - it is all subjective. Who had better technique Pollock or Rembrandt? The results and the technique are certainly different, yet each has his proponents. So for me it is both as the final appreciation of art is a personal experience.

Pila as well as La Peca are about 40 minutes from Verona. Pila is not an all risotto dinner but you can count on many risotti. The bread is made from rice flour as is the pasta which is delicious. The point is each dish is based on rice in some way. Do you know the hotel you are staying at? If I have the address I can get you turn by turn directions.

I never said that Rick should turn down any money or not make money off any products or restaurants. If he does it - he should do it right or not at all. I love his restaurants and have been to Topo and Frontera probably 50 + times - I am a huge fan of his cuisine. However, I am greatly disapointed in his savory salsas and sauces. They are a poor reflection on him and his fine cuisine - In my opinion. I am not saying anything about the man or his success at the restaurants - which, again , I love. But his salsas suck. They do. I do make my own salsas but sometimes I am pressed for time and buy jarred salsas...I try to buy the top I can find and have found some very good and some not so... I agree with you - I guess reality is brutal for celebrity chefs too.

I've tucked this one away in my permanent scrapbook. Your right - Deep Thoughts

1. Art is not math. 2. Art is not what you decide is good.

1. No you cannot put great salsa in a jar - or anything else for that matter except mustard and a few other things. 2. How can and why should he turn down the money? I say bravo to Rick whose hard work and true love of that cuisine has got him to the point where he can make a few bucks from it. If you are a serious foody you don't buy the canned stuff and make your own anyway. How hard is it to make salsa? Rick made the investment and now he is getting his return and I am happy for him.

Some things are just scary. You know – the kind of thing that wakes you up at night with the sweat rolling off of your brow. I sit in the corner of a dark restaurant on a worn chair with dark green plastic upholstery. The walls are a dark imitation wood. The room is empty except for me and the wait staff. As I peruse the menu the only safe bet is the Filet Mignon. There was no other choice. I could drive no longer and when I pulled into the hotel it was almost 10 p.m.. There was nothing else open in this wide spot on the interstate in Iowa so it was going to be dinner here or nothing else. I see her coming out of the corner of my eye and the paranoia starts to build in my mind. “Would you like a cocktail,” she asked in an automatic way. “Can I have the wine list?” I asked with a sense of resignation. She brings the list back in a few minutes and I am relived to find Gallo Sonoma Zinfandel. Not bad, it will wash down the steak just fine. After a while she finally arrived back at the table. “Would you like some wine?” she asked with complete and sincere boredom. “Yes, I will take number 124,” I said knowing better than ordering it by name. After a few minutes she returns to tell me my selection is not available by the glass. I explain I want the whole bottle to and she reacts with disbelief and with more than a little irritation that she will actually have to open a bottle at the table. But it is only now that the nightmare really begins. What if the wine is corked? I know what the response will be – disbelief, irritation and the certainty that I am trying to rip them off. First the bartender will come out then the hotel manager. “Don’t you want to try something else,” they will ask assuming I just don’t like the wine. She finally arrives at my table with the bottle some minutes after my steak has arrived. I watch with apprehension while she opens the bottle with a winged auger corkscrew. She pours about 11 ounces in my 12 ounce glass and waits for me to taste. With trepidation I put the glass to my nose waiting for the nauseating smell of books that have been in the basement for a few decades. But wait! There it is, the smooth fruity smell of blackberry jam. No problem after all. This will wash down my now cold steak quite well. I tell the waitress the wine is fine. We are both visibly relieved. “Would you like an ice bucket,” she asks.

Domaine de La Pousse d'Or, Volnay, 1er Cru, Les Caillerets, Clos des 60 Ouvrees, Monopole, 1981 Very bright scarlet with a brickish tone. Extremely fragrant and somewhat lean on the nose at the same time. A light hint of dark fruit aromas, but more a earthy, pungent yet refined aromas dominate. Almost Barolo like without the power. Broad delicate fruit flavors in the mouth give way quickly to the earthy, leather flavors in the nose. Past its prime but still a rewarding experience. Gerard Potel was making wines to age in those days and this wine from a less than great vintage is still showing quite well. Not great but very good.

Stefano's recommendations: "Il Desco", "Il Calmiere", "La Fontanina", "Bottega dei Vini", "Alla Fiera-da Ruggero". "Al Carro Armato" A few comments of my own: Al Carro Armato - is super casual (for Italy) and the food is delicious. This is one of the oldest restaurants in Italy. You often sit at a communal style table. It is always packed with Veronese having a great time. Great ambiance and food. Bottega del Vino – you go here for the wines. Basically a tavern serving good simple food – with a spectacular selections of wines by the glass and bottle. A strange place because it is rough looking inside but everyone is carrying around oversize Reidel glasses. When there is a wait you see crowds of people outside with giant Reidels in thier hands. The wine trade hang out. Also one of my own just off the shopping area in the center of Verona Ristorante Greppia –Go here for a very casual local meal. Simple food well done, lots of local families in for dinner. I go here for the Bollito Misto a favorite in Verona. The restaurants listed here are all very 'Italian' no French style kitchen here.