Craig Camp

I don't deny they make good clothing. Just that they are overpriced - bad value. There are things of the same quality that sell for less. Same for French restaurants. There are cuisines of the same quality that sell for less. The reason people pay more is that they are insecure and want to be seen as sophisticated. So they buy a little public sophistication. I once had a sommelier tell me he had stopped trying to convince people not to order Dom Perignon, even though he knew he had Champagne for the same or lower price that were superior. “They don’t want to drink it, he told me. They want to be seen with it.”

There are many things people pay more money for that are only expensive because of some perceived prestige that people are trying to attach to themselves. Price in itself is not a valid measure of quality, only perceived quality.

I have not used this book - here are two consumer reviews from Amazon. This Book is not Helpful to the Average Tourist The author seems to know what she is talking about in Rome which is the lagest part of the book. Her recommendations in Florence and Venice seem to be based mostly on hearsay. Consider this: The book is 274 pages long. The glossary of terms and bibliograpy account for 72 pages. The book does review trattorias but it also reviews expensive restaurants, pizzerias, gelaterias, wine bars , shops that sell wine and serve light lunches, and wine shops that offer tastings and canapes. There is a lot of detail im this book, but after reading it I decided it was of little practical use to me since I am an ordinary tourist looking for a good place to eat near the attractions I will be visiting on this my third trip to Rome (second to Florence and Venice). Many of the recommendations are clustered in neighborhoods that are somewhat removed. The book is not going on my trip with me... The purchase price was a waste of money. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Best Food Guide to Italy Last year, my husband and I went to Italy on our honeymoon and half of the meals we ate were good using Frommer's and Eyewitness so when we went this year, September 2001 I was determined to make all the meals GREAT. With the help of this book I did. In Rome, we went to four restaurants, all were excellent, Trattoria Claudio al Pantheon (twice), Cul de Sac (a wine bar with light meals) around the corner from the Piazza Navona, a restaurant on the Campo dei Fiori Plaza, Nino's by the Spanish steps and an Enoteca by the Italian Parliment. In Florence, we went to Da Guido's and Trattoria Antellesi (sp.?) by the train station. This book was a MUCH more reliable source than any of our guide books and a fun read, Fant is rather opinionated, but so am I. If you are a foodie like me you won't pass this up, I just wish she'd do a book on more cities, Milan, parts of Tuscany etc. My only advice is to call the restaurants in Rome first, if you want to go for lunch. Even in Septmeber, we found that some Roman restaurants around the Pantheon listed in the book were closed for lunch. Fant does include a list of restaurants open on Sunday and Monday, which is very useful because lots of restaurants are closed on those days. Regardless, everywhere we went was excellent and Fant gives you tips on what to order, which were very helpful. ... Bon Appetit!

Taking shots at the Michelin guide in Italy is hardly a new sport. I too would go with the Gambero Rosso Guide over Michelin in Italy. The trouble with you Steve is you only want to live in the Temples of High Cuisine. In that case stay with the guides you mention. I love Italian cuisine from top to bottom – from the panini and beer at the local bar to 4 hour meals at Il Pescatore drinking Gravner. All of these things combine to make a cuisine. It is not hard to find a guide to lead you to the Temples. It is hard to find the small, interesting places, often in the country or small towns, where chefs make very personal statements with the best of their local ingredients. Many of these chefs have no interest in capturing a Michelin star. These are the restaurants you find in Osterie. My defense for the Osterie guide is my personal experience. My defense is they write about the food that I am looking for. I have never had a book lead me to so much good and interesting food – the Italian food you hold in such contempt (boring I believe is your most frequent comment). When I eat in Italy I don’t want to be confused as to what country that I am eating in – in Osterie they select Italian restaurants doing Italian food. You’re sure to hate it.

I didn't know that eGullet had alternative rules of language. I will realize in the future you are only inferring never stating your opinon. So- actually means- Do I have it right now? ...and how was the Costa Russi 82? The vineyard was quite young in those days and didn't have the stuffing it has now.

The greatest restaurant part. I wanted to ask you about that since I saw the comment on the pasta thread I was surprised to see your less than enthusiastic comments after seeing your other remark.

This is trashing? My comments: and a look at the Michelin Italian guide from others: ...and from Francesco: ...and from Marcus: ...from Peter Rogers: ...from JJS: ...from vmilor:

...and delicious it is. When a restaurant wants to bill itself as Tuscan they usually just throw a few dishes with beans on the menu and then go with the regular southern Italian stuff people expect.

Steve - Today you wrote: On March 21st : Which is it?

I would severely disagree with this statement. We are in fact in a ‘golden age’ for serious beer in the United States. Brew Pubs are popping up everywhere and stores and restaurants are dramatically expanding their selections of both imported and domestic micro-brews. Beer tastings, classes and comparisons have become commonplace. The only beers I know relegated to the couch and TV are the mass produced, flavorless brands who produce all those tasteful commercials. Most serious wine people I know are also lovers of fine beers for the same reasons they like wine – complexity.

It was a beautiful day in Florence, it was almost lunch time and I was hungry. Wanting to walk a bit to take advantage the day, I checked in with the concierge for a restaurant within walking range. After a lovely thirty minute walk I arrived at the trattoria he had recommended. Over an hour later I headed back out into the sun to walk off the outstanding meal I had just had just enjoyed. The day looked even better. Just around the corner was a book shop and I dropped in to pick up a dining guide. Then I saw it. The restaurant where I had eaten had received 14 points while the one just across the street had been awarded 15 points. My day was ruined – a 14 when I could have had a 15. I had wasted a dining experience – there are only so many lunches you get. Now desolate at my loss I wandered the streets……… Then I woke up. I have to stop reading Plotnicki posts before going to bed. Steve – lets have a quick lesson on reading the Osterie guide to help you avoid those 6 weeks at Berlitz. As you picked Florence lets go there. Lesson 1 – They pick eight places to eat out of the hundreds of places in Florence. In Italian that means they think those eight places are all very, very good. Lesson 2 – Out of those eight places they award two the Slow Food Snail. In Italian that means that out of those eight places these two are the best. Lesson 3 – In the review they list some of the dishes in red. In Italian that means they think those are the best dishes served by the restaurant. WARNING: In many Italian restaurants they list the dishes to be served in Italian instead of English, just like they look in the Osterie guide. The guide actually wanted to print them in English but then you would not be able to find them on the menu without translating them. Call me crazy, but I think it is hard to really understand and enjoy the food of a different country unless you understand some of the lingo. You don’t need to learn the language – a dictionary is adequate. Then there are the Michelin Guide ratings in Italy. Steve is right; their Italian ratings are easy to understand: • 1 Star – The owner speaks English and the food pays homage to France. • 2 Star – The owner and the waiters speak English and the food is French with an Italian accent. • 3 Star – The restaurant is in France. The whole staff including the busboys speak English, but not to you. OK, I’m kidding. There are obviously a lot of wonderful restaurants in the Italian Michelin guide, some of my favorites. However the guide is woefully out of date and often you end up in a tired old restaurant with dull, expensive food. I have never had this experience with the Osterie guide. The food is always at the minimum well made regional cuisine and often reaches excellence. It is easy to go through Italy without actually touching the culture with Michelin. Not so with Slow Food.

You can't find something if you don't know what you are looking for. I disagree with your desire for an exact rating - boring, and I used this book effectivly long before I could read Italian. My menu Italian came a long time before my conversational Italian. C'mon Steve, lets not have this argument over and over it is not interesting. We respect this food and you don't , so be it, if you don't have something new to add...... Please! Please! not the endless high cuisine story. It is not fair to drag every conversation about Italian food down into your 'high cuisine' quicksand.

Absolutly true. Some pleasant, homey and cute cookbooks that's about it. The question is, "why not?" With such a huge following you would think there would be more information available.

Without a doubt the most disappointing dining guide I have used in Italy is the Michelin guide. Time and time again I have found overpriced food in an international style often served by a bored staff with an environment and owners that are riding on their laurels. Of course, there are notable exceptions but this does not excuse the expensive disappointments. On the contrary, the finest restaurant guide I have found in any country (except for the Michelin guide in France) is the Osterie d’Italia guide produced by Slow Food. For those of you not used to Italian nomenclature, in the past restaurants were basically divided into three groups: 1. Osteria – one step up from eating in someone’s home, but you paid. 2. Trattoria – Casual family dining in a regional style, but organized more like a ristorante than an osteria. 3. Ristorante – More formal and expensive dining. These definitions often mean nothing anymore. You can find exceptionally serious chefs preparing the most innovative Italian food in places call osteria or trattoria and eat in run down, cheap places called Ristorante. You have to use your eyes and a good guide to know what you are getting into. The term osteria has been adopted by many of Italy’s most creative young chefs who are presenting personal renditions of regional food. In these types of restaurants you can usually depend on finding outstanding modern regional cooking, excellent wines lists and a more than interesting selection of cheeses. An example of this is the Osteria dell’Arancio in Grottammare, located on the Adriatic coast in the Marche region. We arrived in Grottammare not knowing where to eat and referred to the Slow Food Osterie guide which led us to dell’Arancio. After a short walk from the sea up into the hills, we found a warmly lit, medieval piazza with a few Roman ruins thrown in for good measure. At the opposite end of the piazza was the Osteria. We entered the warm stone walled dining rooms and were led to our table. We took the only choice on the menu – the ‘degustazione dell’osteria for the bargain price of €33.00 including several antipasti, 2 primi, a secondo (you have 3 to choose from) and dessert with a glass of dessert wine thrown in to boot. Three hours of heavenly eating and drinking followed. The wonderful wine list was packed with excellent wines from the Marche and a broad selection of some of the most interesting (not overpriced) wines that Italy can offer. To top the evening off in the next dining room we spotted our friends Eleonora Rossi and Marco Casonaletti, owners of Oasi degli Angeli, the premier agriturismo in Marche and winemakers of Kurni, a wine that is the darling of the Italian press and the 4000 bottles they produce a year have rapidly become one of the most collectable wines in Italy. Eleonora is one of the finest young chefs in Marche and this was the restaurant where she chose to eat on their day off. We luckily got to finish off the evening tasting all sorts of cutting edge Italian wines with them along with the outstanding cheese selection offered by the restaurant. All of this because of the Osterie guide. We are happy to have a long list of similar experiences because of this guide. I think the problem with the Michelin guide is that its roots in French food and culture are just too deep (and now the British interpretation thereof) and that it has blinders on when it comes to Italy, while Slow Food comes from Italian roots and has a deeper understanding of not only the new trends in Italian cuisine but in the foundation it is being built upon. The Osterie d’Italia guide comes only in Italian, but is easily used even if you don’t read the language. All of the listings in the guide are recommended (never had one bad one) and the icons used are easy to decipher. The Slow Food Snail emblem denotes the top restaurants in the guide, a bottle of wine means a special wine list and a wheel of cheese signals a unique selection of regional cheeses. Top dishes are noted in red and are easily matched to the menu. Of course I still use my Michelin guide, but at the end of the year my Osterie d’Italia guide is torn, ear-marked and full of notes and I’m ready for the new edition.

Eating in Venice can either be a frustrating or rewarding experience. Such an exotic place that draws hoards of tourists means that most restaurants are terrible – or worse. Beware of restaurants with pictures of the food out front. As eGullet members we are lucky to have access to a unique group of food critics – ourselves. This thread is meant to take advantage of that broad experience and to create an eGullet guide to help everyone Please post your personal reviews of restaurants in Venice here. This is not meant to be a debate about individual restaurants but a compendium of dining experiences. The more detailed these descriptions are the better. If you wish to debate a particular restaurant or dish please start a new thread for that discussion. Make the first line of the post only the name of the restaurant. Phone and fax numbers are always appreciated and be sure to include the date of your experience. Please make each restaurant an individual post and you are encouraged to update your comments on your post (with date) as you visit these restaurants again. Venice can be a wonderful culinary visit – honest! From Martin Rosen: This thread would be much more useful if people would give an indication of the style/level of the restaurant. An entry that just says "I ate there. It was great" is honestly not very helpful. From Beachfan: I suggest we limit advice based on personal experience, not what we've heard.

Are you referring to home cooking or restaurant cooking here? I would have thought the cooking style of Naples to be the major influence for restaurants - at least in terms of the "red sauce cuisine" that FG mentioned. My father was Sicilian, and the specialities I ate at home as a child were never featured in the neighborhood I-A restaurants (NY and Tri-State areas). I'm talking about things like caponata, pasta con sarde, spiedini carne, cappozelle, panelle, etc. I am referring to home cooking. I am not sure there is a distinct regional restaurant style. I suppose this will vary depending on where you are. In Chicago and St. Louis, Sicily was the source of the last great Italian immigrations. However then there were all those mixed marriages that happened here - you know his family was from Naples and hers from Palermo. It is true as you note that what we call Italian-American food is a blend of the various southern regions.

I am going to forward these questions to an organic fruit and olive farmer I know in Puglia so that we can get some precise answers. Give me a day to find time to translate it and then a few days for him to get around to responding.

Press Release Source: Sterling Vineyards Big Plans for Merlot in May '03 Thursday March 20, 2:45 pm ET CALISTOGA, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--March 20, 2003--Winery registrations continue for the 4th annual Merlot in May and organizers are impressed by the large and immediate response by Merlot producers from around the world. The one-day festival plans to accommodate 130 wineries and hundreds of wine enthusiasts for an extensive Merlot wine tasting and an expanded activity program that will include chef demonstrations and food and wine pairing opportunities. Merlot in May 2003 will be held on Friday, May 16, 2003 at Sterling Vineyards, 1111 Dunaweal Lane, in Calistoga. A trade and media tasting will take place from 10 -12 p.m., followed by the 2-6 p.m. public tasting. There is no charge to participating wineries. General admission tickets to the public tasting cost $35. Organizers have expanded the 2003 focus of Merlot in May to emphasize the wine's food friendliness and versatility with a variety of fare. In partnership with the Viking Range Corporation and the Gene Schick Company, a Viking Festival Kitchen will accommodate several live demonstrations of both traditional and more exotic Merlot friendly foods throughout the afternoon event. Festival organizers are currently in negotiation with several presenting chefs, soon to be named. In the wine tasting tent an additional roster of chefs and local artisanal food producers will sample a range of fare. "This is a great event for local vintners, and I'm delighted by the response in 2003. It gives winemakers, like me, a chance to get out of the cellar for a day, catch up with colleagues and sample a really comprehensive, competitive range of Merlots...and adding a food pairing element just seems like a natural partnership," says Sterling's Director of Winemaking, Robert Hunter. Registration continues through the end of March, the following wineries are currently scheduled to participate at Merlot in May 2003: A. Rofanelli Winery Adobe Creek Vineyards Bartholomew Park Barton & Guestier Beaulieu Vineyard Bellarine Estate Beringer Blackstone Winery Cedar Mountain Winery Ceja Vineyards Charles Creek Vineyard Chateau Bourgneuf Chateau Canon Moueix Chateau La Grave a Pomerol Clos du Val Clos Pegase Columbia Winery Covey Run Crystal Valley Cellars Delicato Family Vineyards DeLoach Vineyards Domaine Danica Dunnewood Vineyards Fenestra Winery Fife Vineyards Flora Springs Forth Vineyard Fox Creek Franciscan Oakville Estate Frei Brothers Reserve Frick Winery Gainey Vineyard Gargiulo Vineyards Gloria Ferrer Grgich Hills Cellar Gundlach Bundschu Winery Kelham Vineyards Lambert Bridge Lindemans Liparita Cellars Lolonis Winery Louis M. Martini Winery Mason Merriam Vineyards Merryvale Vineyards Metropolitan Wines Monterra Monticello Vineyards Mulholland Vineyard Murphy-Goode Winery Niebaum-Coppola Estate Winery Pedroncelli Winery Peju Province Winery Pellegrini Family Vineyards Penfolds Peterson Winery Pezzi King Vineyards Pope Valley Winery Porcupine Ridge Rios-Lovell Winery Robert Keenan Winery Robledo Family Winery Rosemount Estate Rosenblum Cellars Rust Enverde Rutherford Grove Rutherford Ranch Saddleback Cellars Santa Rita Sawyer Cellars Silver Rose Cellars Spice Route St. Clement St. Supery Vineyards & Winery Sterling Vineyards Sullivan Vineyards Talus Thomas Coyne Winery Thomas Fogarty Winery Trinchero Winery Tristant Vineyards Villa Maria Wild Horse Winery Wilson Winery Windsor Vineyards For more information or to register to participate please contact Balzac Communications, ph: (800) 709-7667, fax: (707) 255-1119, or e-mail klewis@balzac.com. General admission tickets are available for purchase online after March 31, 2003. Merlot in May is sponsored annually by Sterling Vineyards as a public adjunct of the International Merlot Conference, a biennial wine industry forum. The IMC and Merlot in May are dedicated to expanding the knowledge of, and appreciation for Merlot in the world wine community. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GERMANY: Wine sales reach €3.47 billion in 2002 21 Mar 2003 Source: just-drinks.com editorial team Total wine sales in Germany reached €3.47 billion (US$3.69 billion) in 2002, representing a 1% increase from 2001, according to data released by the Deutsches Weininstitut. Wine accounted for 33% of total alcohol expenditure by German consumers in 2002. In volume terms, wine sales rose by 2% to 11.4m hectolitres but the average price per bottle fell from €3.10 to €2.94. Domestically-produced wines represented 45.3% of the volume in 2002, down 2.5 percentage points from 2001 but the average price per litre for German wine rose by 1% to €3.36 per litre. Italian and French wines increased their shares of the German wine market in volume terms, but according to the Institute's data the price per litre for French and Italian wines fell in 2002. The French share of the market went up 1 percentage point to 15.9%, with the price per litre for French wine falling by 7% to €2.71. Italian wines accounted for 13% of the market in volume terms in 2002, representing a rise of 3 percentage points. The price per litre of Italian wine was reported by the Institute to be 11% lower. The Institute said it expects wine consumption in Germany to rise by 7.5% in volume and by 8.5% in value terms by 2006.

Parker delays trip to Bordeaux

These are the most misused and misunderstood terms in the United States and are used without discretion by Italian restaurants depending on what they think will sell. "Northern Italian" is absolutely meaningless - actually it doesn't mean anything in Italy either. Piemonte and Alto Adige are both in northern Italy but the menus don't look much alike. When I see a restaurant claiming to be ‘Tuscan’ I am particularly wary. The major influence in what is called Italian-American cuisine is the cooking of Sicilia.

The difference here is the specialization of the professional staff - each member repeats specific tasks and thus should be expert at them while the home cook performs all tasks. FG - Just for clarification does this mean that you think the NYT rates them too high? In other words on your own scale if they can't cook better than you do - how many stars SHOULD they have? I guess that is part of my point. The restaurants just screw up what is good basic home cooking instead of improving it - they overdue it. Now that is a SAD picture. I agree with this (except at the home of the nona ronfland metions) and think it is the drift of what I am trying to say.

Perhaps this will make the distinction more clear. When I eat in a restaurant I expect them to cook better than I can. They have a staff, more time, better equipment, access to better ingredients, theoretically more training and they expect me to pay for the privilege of eating their food. I apply this measure to all restaurants from the Italian beef joint I like in Chicago to places sporting multiple Michelin stars. When I eat in the home of a good Italian-American cook I find the meals almost always superior to what you can find in restaurants. The restaurants seem driven to always add ‘more’ of something to dishes. Maybe the home cook and the restaurant are buying the same brand of frozen calamari, but the home cook simply deep fries it and serves it crisp with lemon slices while the restaurant ends up adding all sorts of strange dipping sauces and herbs blended into the breading – paying more attention to this than changing their frying oil frequently enough. By the way this reminds be of two horror stories. On ‘the Hill’ in St. Louis one restaurant (it was packed) served fried calamari with garlic butter poured over it. In Chicago one serves it on a plate covered with salsa rossa (ketchup and mayonnaise).

Good advice Iko and Knightsbridge is an excellent shop. I forgot that one as I never get to the suburbs when I am in Chicago.

I must be getting old!