stefanyb

Well the second part of my original premise was- to what extent it diverges from English cuisine. In this case, not at all.

Yes, I'd agree with that. Its all of a piece. Being away from their original home, immigrants try to recreate their past pleasures.

The cuisine can be immigrant cuisine as long as the foods and dishes remain relatively true to the original ones ( lets not even approach the *authenticity* argument here ). The people themselves can assimilate to their hearts' content. Take me, for instance. I would describe myself as second generation American and my kids third. We certainly are not immigrants, only the original generation would be that, but the cuisine of my grandparents survives to some extent and would be considered immigrant cuisine. I don't see anything negative about the term immigrant.

I have to say, once again, although it isn't perfect- *immigrant cuisine* carries the general meaning, is not perjoritive and therefore is workable.

Good thought, but the British who turned into the "White Anglo-Saxon Protestants" in the U.S. were also an immigrant culture. So were the Irish, and is Irish cuisine "ethnic"? I'm not sure it's regarded that way. If you read my original post I had specified *poor* immigrant groups and the level of deviation from English food, the original immigrant cuisine of this country.

Same problem: Everything is cultural. Thats why I said Cuisine of * Immigrant* Cultures

C.O.I.C. Cuisine Of Immigrant Cultures

The words ethnic food, at least in this country, refer to the food prepared and eaten by poor immigrant populations. If there was ever an influx and resultant neighborhood development of a particular poor immigrant group then their food, which was obviously rustic due to the economic conditions, is considered ethnic. Also, the English settlement of our country introduced foods by which all other cuisines are measured. The level of difference between a particular cuisine and English food is another kind of measurement of how likely a cuisine is to be considered ethnic. The typical specious arguments against immigrants, i.e. uncivilized, unclean, unworthy etc. have also been put forward in the case of ethnic food but as history has shown, when assimilation occurs acceptance follows and those who put forth the argument move on. The cuisine in its rustic form may continue on and evolve over time or even be coopted by "American" cuisine as is exemplified by Italian food.

Gee wilickers, how could I have forgotten cell phone etiquette problems? I guess thats #11, but then again it could go under "not being concerned with other people's feelings". And..... yes, regarding any of those attributes that I might be guilty of myself, I do not qualify do to old age . And.....I do care if people described as yuppies frequent a particular restaurant if only because of their boorish manners.

Yuppy:a young, ambitious, and well-educated city-dweller who has a professional career and an affluent lifestyle. Here are other, less neutral, qualities as per moi: 1. Values surface over substance 2. Is relatively unconcerned about other people's feelings 3. Judges others based on their material assets 4. Talks primarily about their career to their therapist 5. Owns a Subzero and an SUV 6. Must be on top of all new trends 7. Is obsessed with their portfolios 8. Considers Zagat their food bible 9. Compulsively follows the real estate market 10.Has a million dollar kitchen but never cooks How many of these refer to vous?

What exactly was the substance other than trashing the woman? Sounds a lot like sour grapes to me. Didn't she occupy a position any one of the blue and red people here would give their eyeteeth for?

If you go to this LINK you'll get to hear Frank. The audio spot is a box on the right side. They sample some 2001 Rieslings and discuss them. Interesting stuff.

Nah, couldn't happen

This restaurant at Third and 60th has two floors and two cuisines. Upstairs is Japanese with the sushi chef previously of Jewel Bako. I'm intrigued but want some info from someone who has gone.

Elyse, I'm with you. While its always important to act decently in all situations- whether or not you are paying and whether or not you have any power over others- if you are coming to a restaurant to spend your money and would be best served by friendly, attentive and respectful, knowledgable service (who wouldn't?), then thats what you should get, nothing less. All of your requests that are made in a reasonable and respectful way should be addressed to the best of the restaurant's ability. Its a service industry after all. A waitperson with attitude should be doing something else. And, if they are serving your table, you should be somewhere else if thats what you want. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Thats funny because I'd hope that if the chef was saving the best for himself then he should be home letting someone else run the kitchen. Seriously.

Aside from listing what shops have what range of cheeses available at what price, I'd be interested in the quality of the affinage, if they have a cave and what the reputation of the affineur is. These are all criteria by which to judge a particular source. An overall rating by these criteria would be the best way to judge. Purely by personal experience, I'd have to say Murray's (Bleecker) followed by Artisanal/D&D. Fairway is good but you never know who has been handling the wares.

Wait! We forgot udder! And the great bread with udder fat. That was my hands down favorite mouthful of the evening. I guess it was cow's udder and I assume its both milchadich and fleishadich

One small correction, the pizzle was lamb and it was served in cream sauce, I kid you not.

And we all can't wait for you to return. Let us know when it'll be and we'll plan something special

Actually I think this opens an interesting can of worms. What is the prime directive, so to speak, of a restaurant? If people come in hungry and want to have something right away shouldn't a restaurant provide them with whatever they would like? You're saving their appetite? For whose benefit? The bottom line? My mother would always tell me not to eat, say, a cookie before dinner because it would spoil my appetite. Is the restaurant playing Mommy? Personally, I think bread should be served with water and menus. Of course, it does depend on the place and the cuisine.

Forgive me if this has already been addressed. Re wilfrid's opera analogy: true and apt Re steve's complexity criterium: Theres the difference between implication and inference that can be applied here. Complexity on the receiving end of food, the diner, could in my opinion be one criterium for an objective assessment of the food. Complexity of preparation, on the other hand, would not be a way to determine merit. Its the same in art. It really doesn't matter what it took to produce a painting or any other art object. All that matters is what the result is and on what levels it can be appreciated by its audience. So, its possible to both agree and disagree with steve.

Okay- we are full-up and more. Everyone, don't forget to bring a bottle of wine or a bottle of anything else you would prefer to drink. Also, bring your items in serving condition. Do not plan to plate or warm up or anything else to your offerings. Serving tools would be good too as well as a bread knife if necessary. Cutting boards would come in handy. Plan to take home any unfinished food you have brought. See ya manana!

I had one of my simplest but most comforting comfort foods: One great big white fluffy oven-baked Idaho potato with Plugra and sour cream, s&p and topped with steamed, chopped,squeezed out spinach mixed with a small amount of heavy cream, s&p; chopped scallion garnish. Not really pretty Not very esoteric tremendously satisfying

If you think about the absolute bottom line for all of us... isn't it to enjoy ourselves to the greatest extent possible? Now I'm just going to throw this out so you all can argue among yourselves but.....who has a better life experience, someone with mediocre standands who has a high level of enjoyment , say, 75% of the time or someone with an exacting level of requirements for pleasure who only enjoys themselves 25% of the time? And....can the level of enjoyment between two different people really be measured? Not really, other than by personal description. So I don't see it as feasible to say one person's pleasure is more "pleasureful" than anothers or more worthy. Therefore, are we all by virtue of our increasing exposure to and sophistication in the world of food condemning ourselves to lives of unattainable pleasure? Is ignorance really bliss?