Suvir Saran

No you do not need to travel to India to learn Indian cooking. But you have to know India and Indian culture and cuisine to cook Indian food. What do most of the people living in the west know about India? Not much. We know more about France, England, even China than we know about India. We would be fooling ourselves to think otherwise. Also what makes India more difficult to fathom is that India is tough for even an Indian to discover. There are far too many languages, religions, belief systems and cultural practices existing in ways that one would believe in travels around India that you have reached new countries. But in the west and more so in America, we have simplified India to be what we think of it. And what we can quickly associate with India. What India is in reality, is a tapestry in which even some threads are still not familiar with one another even as they belong to one piece. I have had dinner parties with only Indian friends, and they discover new things about their country, things that text books, parents, teachers and history books could not teach unless history and anthropology are your majors. You do not need to know what was going on in Vienna to play Mozart, but tell me a name of even one Indian chef? And no, Madhur Jaffrey, Julie Sahni and Suvir Saran are not chefs. We are more like food and cultural ambassadors of India. If you can give me one name, of a well known Indian chef, maybe you know more than most people living here. So, unless you know of that answer quite immediately, there is a gap between that culture and what you feel you know of it. Certainly it is not something you cannot fill, but for that, you have to make an effort. ANd that effort takes a certain effort that has to be grounded in real desire to learn. Also you have notes you can read to play Mozart. What do you have to study Indian cuisine with that teaches you what you need to learn abou spices, their place in Indian cooking and why they are added in a certain season and at a certain time in a certain manner? Yes, in the last couple of years there has been an effort to train the minds curious about Indian cooking in America about these subtleties, but that effort is at a very early stage. So, we have great hope, that as we continue to live here, we will in the next few decades maybe see a significant filling in the large gap that exists in the knowledge of India. It would be false to think that Indian food is even remotely as understood or known as French, Italian, Mexican, Chinese or even Thai. Indian food is known. But not much else is known other than that word that makes one curious about so many other things that one thinks of when thinking India.

No the subtleties of INdian cooking are not any more difficult than those of Chinese or French or Mexican or Italian cooking. They are only different and are mostly unexplored in English and most of the Western Hemisphere. Even those that have written about it in English have made little if any attempt to share the subtleties. Also spices more than vegetables and meats have greater potency and power to change foods and tastes. And while one that has not understood spices will not understand this point, James Beard of course understood it and shared the very simple but basic practice of toasting spices before adding. Most chefs using them have not learned to do it, for many Indians take this simple skill as a given and often will not share that in recipes. Those simply learning from written pieces of culture will never know better and so have actually not even learned the basics. That is the point here. It is not unreal to forsee it happening, it only takes a real student and a real teacher to come together. And then, anything is possible. And yes we in the west are using many things eastern as our way of adding yet another label to our lives. Like we have eaten in the best restaurant, food cooked by the best French, Italian, Chinese or Indian chef... and so we also feel we need to add more such labels into our lives and so some of this certainly has to do with what you share here. A great and valid point. And believe me we in the east are no different, we copy the west and its lack of customs as a great freedom and something we must infect our own culture with completely. We in India had largely forgotten what "YOG" was until the westerners made it into a great Hype and trend, called it YOGA and now there are several Yoga institutes sprouting across Indian cities and areas where earlier there were none. Again a point to show that the world over, people do tend to copy one another and take from one another and worry about labels. East or west, humans are the same.

Like we call it Crisco here.. at least for the most part, in India it is famous as Dalda. Many swear by it and have used it as a substitute for ghee. SInce it is cheaper and some believed LONG ago that it was healthier.

Chefette, Memories such as those haunt me as I live many oceans away. But alas, when I am there, I miss NYC and my home. Tell is more about that Rose Opera Cake please... and what restaurant were you working with? Is that something you can share?

Wondered if you had found recipes for making a preserve. Yes all over the Middle-East and India, rose syrup(gulab) is used alongside other syrups like Saffron (kesar or zaafran), Screwpine (kewra) or Vetiver (Khus). I have eaten preserves with whole petals in Jaipur. But one can never find these commerically. I was being spoiled by the chief of Police of Rajasthan and his wife. So, it seemed like the entire police force of that state was trying to make this young boy ( I was in my late teens) happy and charmed. It was great fun. And yes that line of Diana Vreeland is funny. I was shocked very recently at Asia Society when a person of a certain aura, showed up wearing a pink suit, I was shocked that any man could do something like that for a black tie event. He simply said he was coming to an Indian event and how could he not follow Diana Vreelands advice.

Cabrales, It is Falooda you mention. Unfortunately they use a commerical Rose syrup that has more artificial color and flavoring than anything real. It is a drink made with seeds of a plant like Basil. These are soaked till they sweel and become like pearls of tapioca. These are mixed with milk, ice-cream and maybe rose, saffron or screwpine syrups. At times even Vetiver syrup is used.

I knew a real estate broker in the Boston area who said that houses are very difficult to rent if the prior renters cooked a lot of Indian food. He claimed that the oils from the food actually permeated the walls of the kitchen and surrounding rooms. And I know of realtors that have made such statements that would diminish other ethnicities and people. But is it true to perpetuate such myths??? But yes, if one cooks foods that are spicy and flavorful and aromatic, it is easy to have their smells permeate rugs and textiles. But a smart cook would plan all of this. And be a smart cook. I have tons of textiles and rugs. And even when I come back home after several days in which friends have been cooking Indian food, there are never smells lingering. Windows, exhaust, correct tehnique and simply losing prejudice can help in many situations. I have heard gross and very damaging stories shared by realtors about just about any ethnicity that is non-white. I have heard such horrible things that I would be foolish to even post them here. While there may be a very small iota of truth in them, they are for the most part nothing but a way to discriminate and remain ignorant.

Suvir While I think chefs from different countries should be applauded for immersing themselves in new cultures, the "mocking" is usually the result of the hamfisted use that many people make of the ingredients they discover or the misuse of ingredients to make them more palatable to different audiences I am all for people taking ideas and using them. On this Board A CAPED CHEF has said that he is collecting ideas we have shared. I am thrilled by that, but it has to be done with subtley and intelligence. S Simon, I agree with your sentiment entirely. I have been a supporter of even Fusion that has been mostly confusion. I borrowed that from a great food critic. She aptly said that about fusion food. But I also feel there is truly a place for fusion and it only needs to transcend from being a joke into becoming an art form. For that to happen like any culture or cuisine or peoples, it needs to come of age. It needs to find its roots. What we have lost in the process of translation in these days in this world has been the patience and virtue and distance one would normally keep from such basic and often banal stuff. In our need to rate, review and debate even, that which has hardly any consequence yet, we have given such power to amateurs that they seem to have lost the need to further their devotion to their art form. As with any debate, even two positive critiques that come in the midst of several damaging ones, these artists get lost in the bulk of just those two and forget the burden that the majority opinion carries. Such tendencies in our person, to judge, rate and honor in most unfortunate times, has often killed the process of learning whereby fusion of cultures and cuisines could actually become something more meaningful. I am all for people immersing themselves in each other’s cultures, cuisines and arts. That is what makes us enjoy life in a way no politician with a very limited outlook can ever share with us. What we need to understand and critically, is the need to place such infantile efforts just where they ought to be. And we need to encourage those daring and risk-taking artists that make such fusion their vocation. But to give them instant celebrity status with hardly any reason or history behind what they are creating is to mock the very existence of such a great form of art. Art needs no gratification. True artists create for themselves and for their own search for new and extended horizons. Steven Klc is one such chef. He has done much in the world of Indian-French fusion. He could have easily found great celebrity status by making some fortuitous deals, but he has rather taken the position of forming his art to be one that he respects and as and when he finds a perfect home and place and time for it to be shared in the larger world, I am sure we will see something shared with us that will not just be a winner for the season. But will be soon accepted as a new classic. Several fusion chefs and restaurants have come and gone. They have each had their place. What has been misguided is the personal satisfaction many of us get by being able to classify, label and rank restaurants and chefs that need our encouragement and taste bus, but not necessarily our accolades that quickly. There is much shared even in simple participation. I think John Whiting may have touched that crass reality of our lives the world over. Realities that have made us rely constantly on pleasures that often are hollow and whither away even sooner than the end of one season. Simon, I am not sure if you know this, but I too was classified by several American journals as a champion of the Fusion movement in the US, alongside such great chefs like Steven Klc, Raji Jallepalli, Floyd Cardoz and a few others. So, I am by no ways opposed to the idea of sharing, absorbing and taking. In fact, it is exciting to me to see cuisines and cultures grow and adapt and change with time. Those that cannot will be dull and stagnant and become only written history. So, I encourage and respect every chef that makes the gallant effort to explore. I question the pathetic manner in which some with need to ascribe labels very foolishly and selfishly have perhaps added much to kill the efforts of the brave few that began such a journey in sincerity .

Damian, Mayoral candidacy does not have the honesty that even an organised sport like baseball could find in itself. Politics the world over have become all about lobbyists ruling what the public quite willingly accepts. But yes since I discovered Baseball and was able to enjoy it, I guess the enjoyment of even cheap electoral politics could somehow show its face to me in time.

I never went there. Have you gone to any of the many SOuth Indian places in the little Indian section of town? What do you think of them?

How nicely said. You are soooo right about it Jaybee. The saddest part is when you see people who have lived the end result of fear and how it can manifest itself in ugly ways, forget their own experiences with that innocent but misguided reality and in their own place of birth, these same people treat the foreigners there in the same way. And similarly when chefs from one land try and explore the cuisine of another with great confidence and are mocked by the others, they find it difficult to accept the truth of the many realities that can limit their task. But in their own world, they create the same hurdles for others trying to accept and make their own, what these chefs have understood as being theirs.

John, Thanks for teasing me. I wish you were serious and I wish I had what it took to be a Congressman. But, I am far too honest and the world far too scared of what is different. I do not forsee being accepted in the world of politics very easily. But thanks for making me feel worthy of being an American Congressman. Maybe it will remain a dream somewhere hidden in my psyche that will find fruition in another life and time. Till then food and its ability to build bridges in the mouth of difference and strife occupy my living moments. It is a more powerful venue for true politics anyways.

If you are good to the chef at Nan Chung (sp?) at the Four Seasons, maybe he can make you Durian Dessert Pan Cakes. Or better yet, if you are very good to him, he could make them with mangoes instead. That was my favorite dessert in Singapore.

Thanks Jaybee for sending the recipe. Your source and you are very kind and generous!

In fact all colors that are fragrant are used. But the "Rani Pink" is the most famous. It is that Pink that Diana Vreeland called the Navy Blue of India. A very rich pink. In Alwar though, the most pale pink roses are prized for their strong perfume and thus are taken to Jaipur where they are spread on muslin to dry in the gardens of the royal palace. The color of the preserve made with pink petals is much more attractive. The darker petals almost get brown as they dry and become all sugary. In Lucknow my grandmother tells me of their chef making Gulukand (rose petal preserve) with the "Shweta Gulab", the very white fragrant roses. This jam would have a beautiful cream color I am told. Steven, I am sure all colors of roses must have been used. And in fact red roses are most abundant in most places. I am sure they were what had more mass appeal. How did the Greek and the Middle Eastern use rose petals?

For the most part, I would agree with you Simon! Are there any sweets from other parts of India that you like? what are they?

I ate a meal at Rang Mahal that was good, but not all that. I was told I was being taken to the best Indian restaurant in Singapore. It is certainly one of the prettiest restaurants I have been to. But the food is not all that. What are your favorite places to eat Indian food in Singapore? And would one not think that Southern Indian food would be more authentic in Singapore? Which one of the many Southern Indian restaurants would you reccomend?

Do keep us posted on how it tastes with the tomato. Thanks for sharing the details about the purchasing.

Rosgollas are famous from Calcutta. Where do you get your favorite ones? Are there places outside of India where you get good ones? DO you know any chef who has done anything new with this age old Bengali dessert? Do you have a recipe for them that you love?

Do you make any Indian dishes in which you use curry powder? If not Indian, what other dishes have you used it in? What brand do you like? Do you toast your curry powder? Do you every make it at home? Is there a recipe for it that you like?

Have never been there... Do you like their Harira?

They are simple yet divine. Never can any amount of them in the refrigerator be enough for me.

Hated any dish prepared with bitter melons (karelas) and now LOVE them.

Thanks for the recipe SA!

I make cashewnut, spinach and potato burgers. They are wonderful. In fact I am going to be making these for a party I am catering for kids. One of many other dishes. Nuts are excellent with veggie burgers... I am sorry... How could I have forgotten them.