huiray

What I said from the beginning. Yet you said that "Hainanese chicken rice" as served in America was an American invention (before you started editing your post after I responded) and it was my original point that it was NOT.

Of course. In fact your post generally agrees with me! I actually edited my post to say it originated in the US or Malaysia, but that edit didn't work. Wherever it was invented it wasn't Hainan. The forums' editing function is screwed. Interesting the number of edits your post has undergone. Of course the links I posted are not from Hainan. It is precisely because the dish I talk about nowadays called "Hainanese Chicken Rice" was developed outside of Hainan. The history of it is called out in the links. It is disingenuous of you to complain that the links do not include any from Hainan. As for Wikipedia and your sneering at it - in my opinion it is misguided to consider it with contempt. On the contrary - it is quite useful, and is a quite suitable "jumping off" point for many things, with citations to look up as one wishes. If you have such a disregard for the site - then just look up the other links I listed.

Excuse me, but it was you who compared the two. Not me. So you are disagreeing with yourself? Not at all. It is you who are reading contrary interpretations into what I said. As for Wenchang Chicken, I *said* that it is a different dish. I was *not* comparing it with "Hainanse Chicken Rice". It is *your* interpretation that I was comparing the two.

On the contrary. Nowhere did I specifically talk about "American Hainanese Chicken Rice" in my previous post. I talked about the dish regardless of where it was served. I provided links to articles describing the dish, all of which illustrate that your statement that "Hainanese Chicken Rice" as served in the US is an "American invention" is false per se because it is NOT an "American invention". It is simply that the version served in the US in restaurants seldom is as good as what one gets in SE Asia, but the character of the dish is basically the same as what you would get in SE Asia. If you are saying that the Hainanese Chicken Rice I made myself is "an American invention" simply because I made it in the US (since I live here) then you are wrong, wrong, wrong, Sir. There is also no basis for comparing "Wenchang Chicken" with what is served in the US. Apples and oranges.

Um, Hainanese chicken rice is NOT an American invention. The dish traditionally known on Hainan is properly known as "Wenchang chicken" (文昌雞). Hainanese chicken, as cooked by folks in Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, etc etc is "derived from" Wenchang chicken but has acquired its own identity. Perhaps yhou ate the stuff that had been "back-imported" onto Hainan. "Hainanese chicken" as served in the US in restaurants is usually a pale imitation of the stuff you would get in SE Asia, although some are pretty good. I make my own Hainanese chicken and Hainanese chicken rice. In all cases (at home or in restaurants) the rice is made with salted stock. http://en.wikipedia....se_chicken_rice http://steamykitchen...icken-rice.html http://www.yoursinga...icken-rice.html http://rasamalaysia.com/chicken-rice/ http://www.malaysiak...se-chicken-rice http://www.yoursinga...icken-rice.html http://www.vietworld...an-chicken.html http://www.malaysian...inanchicken.htm etc etc http://egullet.org/p1902527

I normally don't salt my rice when cooking it. Neither did *anyone* I know nor (as far as I know) did any Chinese restaurant in SE Asia and elsewhere do so (again, AFAIK) in the context of Chinese cuisine, although specific rice preparations such as Hainanese chicken rice *would* be made with salted stock - but those would be exceptions. I *have* done it with non-Chinese cuisine - when making biryani-type rice with "Indian"-type influences, or with other cuisines. But plain boiled rice? For Chinese or Chinese-derived food? Never.

I don't know where you live in the Midwest but in Chicago and Indianapolis it is eminently possible to eat very good seafood and many different varieties of fresh fish from all over, not just stuff retrieved from the Great Lakes. Many of the "ethnic" type markets would have whole fish, both live and dead, of all sorts - of varying quality, one chooses what is best at any particular time. Live fish, breathing and swimming in tanks, certainly qualify as fresh fish and you get to stare them in the eye before they get bopped on the head, too. And, of course, you get to identify what the heck they are before you eat them. Although the selection of live fish is admittedly limited the selection of whole dead fish isn't bad. :-) In Indy there are restaurants like Oceanaire (a chain, but decent) which proffers pretty good fish and seafood, although yes, you would have to trust the kitchen on what you are being served if you can't independently ID the fish fillet yourself, something which is known to be hard in many cases anyway. Or places like the independent Recess (where the owner-chef flies in fresh fish from places far and near, including "new" fishes that get written up in the New York Times only months later. I understand he and/or his sous go to the airport to pick them up.) (His buddy-connections with folks in the fish business helps). I remember once (two years ago) when he got what he said was one of 4 paiche fishes flown into the US [and I had no reason to doubt him] and we, his patrons, got to dine on it. I've had live shrimp fished out from the tank in a Chinese restaurant here to be simply steamed with scallions and ginger. Yum. And so on and so forth. I'm sure it also helps that Chicago and Indianapolis are shipping and air freight hubs, with Indianapolis also a Fedex national hub. My understanding is that a fair bit of stuff gets flown in frequently on a daily basis, frequently overnight from locales far away, especially with regards to the better places. I guess it depends on where you are and what one is comfortable with but in my parts the availability of good stuff is more than just "Salmon" and "Other". :-)

rotuts, I don't really have a favorite brand. I just select the "best looking"/"best feeling" ones available [usually prepackaged] when I buy them. Neither do I buy enough of them to make meaningful comparisons over many brands over time. Sorry. Other folks may have their recommendations. My folks used to buy lap cheong as well as other sorts of preserved meats, waxed chickens, ducks, cured pork, belly pork etc etc hanging "out in the air" on strings or hooks or whatnot in open-front shops in olden-type Chinatowns or elsewhere. Some of the stuff was made in-house, some made locally. It was great fun. In the US I believe one place you can still do that is in San Francisco's Chinatown. In NYC Chinatown there were (still are?) groceries where they have "free-hanging" lap cheong available in a section of the store. I don't know about Chinatown in Boston.

Chicken in aspic.** With marinated mushrooms, artichoke hearts, baby corn, sun-dried tomatoes, olives. (from a local store's antipasto bar). Sesame seed Lavash crackers. ** Shredded leftover Hainanese chicken (poached w/ ginger) [Prior dinner & lunch], tossed w/ chopped cilantro, scallions, celery; interspersed w/ hard boiled egg slices and the mixture set w/ aspic made from chicken stock (from the Hainanese chicken carcass + leftover poaching stock + leftover meat + residual ginger pieces + some water, simmered for a while, then strained) pluss additional unflavored gelatin.

@rotuts: I presume you mean the typical "dried"/smoked sausages generically known as "Lap Cheong"? (臘腸; Yale: laap6 cheung4)) [The liver ones are yeun6 cheung4, 膶腸] These should be fairly similar between the US, HK and Canada - differing in quality from brand to brand and place of manufacture but not that much in characteristics. I presume Liuzhou is looking for FRESH sausages of the sort corresponding to what SobaAddict used - that wild boar sausage, or sweet Italian, t9Fresh ground meat) turkey sausage, "garlic" (with fresh pork or whatever) sausage, etc etc. @Liuzhou - suppose one did try it with Lap Cheong? OK, if you find the ordinary pork ones too sweet maybe the liver ones, or one of the other varieties like the soy-flavored or grain alcohol-flavored ones? One could steam them first to soften them - or use a pressure cooker which gives really soft cooked lap cheong - instead of the sort of sausages SobaAddict used? It would be a different dish (if you had the lentils - I recall you used the last of your supply recently) but I think it might be quite nice... Just thinking out loud. I am surprised that spices like nutmeg, thyme, oregano etc are not at all available where you are. No stores or large groceries w/ a "Western" section or sections catering to expatriates? I believe there is a Northern Chinese/Manchurian sausage literally called "Red Sausage" (紅腸; Yale: hung4 cheung4) similar to Polish kielbasa in characteristic - I don't suppose that is available somewhere in your area?

Perhaps pg 53 of this book might suggest one possible answer: Section in "Food Science" Personally, it wouldn't bother me that it may thin out a bit. (Not that I use much corn starch anyway to start with, if at all, when I make hot & sour soup)

Nice work.

Salmon & Leek soup: http://egullet.org/p1902746

Salmon & Leek soup. With misc veggies as well. Trimmed & washed leeks, cut into rounds. De-stringed celery stalks, cut against the bias. Peeled carrots, cut into rounds. De-ribbed collard greens, chiffonaded. Salmon fillet, de-skinned, cut into 1/4 to 1/3 inch slices. Chopped parsley. Rubbed thyme. Bay leaves. Good olive oil. Salted chicken stock, good gelatin content. Water. All veggies except collards sautéed w/ olive oil. Stock + water + bay leaves added. Simmer. Add thyme. Add collards, simmer. Add parsley. Add salmon, return mixture just to boil, shut off heat. Leave covered for just a few minutes. Ladle out, eat.

Nice to see all that (non-SV) duck being served over the 24th /25th Dec for dinner. :-) All look very tasty!

Myself, I like LOTS of basil with my Insalata Caprese. I also tend to make them only when I can get the nice mozz made in-house by Rosa (or Tony) Hanslits here. I like to use black tomatoes for this - Black Krim or Cherokee Purple...and, this summer, also Japanese Black Trifele, Nefertiti, Chocolate Amazon...but good "ordinary" tomatoes will do too. Here's one plate I had back in June this year, drizzled w/ Alziari olive oil.

• Steamed salmon (julienned ginger, olive oil, salt, black pepper, ripe lime juice) • Steamed asparagus • Flash-sautéed mushrooms (olive oil, sea salt, smoking hot pan) • Salmon skin pan-fried "chip" • Steamed white rice

Oysters stir-fried w/ julienned ginger, smashed garlic, lots of trimmed scallions, sliced hot long green chillies, and salted soya beans. Steamed Thai Hom Mali jasmine rice.

Looks like a fine dinner, Liuzhou. Season's greetings to you. What's the situation like (availability, cost) regarding Western-style cheeses and Western-style wines in your area?

1) A big bottle of J&B. 2) Glenlivet 12-year old scotch. 2) Blandy's Rainwater Madeira.

heidi, I eat that liver sauce with the rice ("dolloped on"), with the chicken, with chicken + rice, and little spoonfuls of it by itself. It is true I tend to make this and variations thereof only when I do Hainanese chicken rice (although I've done it at other times), using the livers from the whole chicken, on occasion supplementing those with more chicken livers from those small tubs of chicken livers you can get. I've even done it admixed w/ "ordinary" duck livers if I had them. Still, I doubt any two preparations have been exactly the same. I wing it each time but with certain constants - sautéed sliced shallots and finely chopped livers being the "base". I've never used ordinary onions for this, I've always used the smallish red shallots** for this, the sort that is used for those deep fried shallots you can get from Chinese groceries and the sort used for the "rempah" in Nyonya, Malay and Indonesian cooking. Sometimes, when I did make it outside of the "Hainanese chicken rice" association, I might add some madeira or sherry to it during the prep. For some grilled or pan-fried duck breasts, for example, in the Western idiom. Otherwise, I might add some alcoholic mirin to it (but NOT Shaohsing or equivalent) in the context of "Hainanese" (or otherwise) chicken. ** "chung1 tau4" (Yale ; Cantonese); 蔥頭 . Also called "Bawang merah", in Malay.

Naguere, thanks. Tinned Polish pork - some details, please? What stroganoff did you you have?

• Leftover Hainanese chicken (at RT, w/ gelatin) and reheated chicken rice (w/ a half-ladle of chicken broth) from last night (http://egullet.org/p1902527), w/ sliced sweet red mini-pepper, cilantro & scallions. • Chopped chicken liver & shallot sauce**. • Chicken broth, w/ sliced asparagus & chunked de-seeded de-skinned cucumber. Plus rest of last night's chili sauce. (not shown) ** Finely sliced shallots, small amount (1 clove) of garlic, sliced; gently sautéed in veggie oil till just beginning to brown; chopped chicken livers added and the mixture tossed. To this was added: Worcestershire sauce (Lea & Perrin), dash of good light soy sauce, some good fish sauce (nước mắm), a bit of sea salt, and a few small chunks of rock sugar. Stir, simmer; water added, cover & reduce on a slow simmer.

Rod rock, too kind. Thanks.

Some Chinese-type noodle soups or noodles-with-soups: http://egullet.org/p1901166 • Malaysian-Chinese type: a sort-of "Penang Har mee"; a.k.a. Prawn noodle soup. http://egullet.org/p1901503 • Roast duck, wontons, tofu puffs noodle soup. http://egullet.org/p1901682 • Fish balls & spinach w/ wheat noodles in soup.