Gavin Jones

I too am on the side of the olives. 1. On the initial piccadillo (what is relation to peccadillo) I was reminded of tagines where olives are a frequent friend to fruitier tastes. 2. Olives de Nyons probably fave - so unctuous & tiny 3. Best dish with olives - chop black olives and stuff under skin of a duck breast before cooking. (This nicked from Pierre Koffmann). Cuts the richness and points up the meatiness.

This is getting close to the limits of conventional sandwich definition & to the ontological limits we encountered in the discussion of Pie. I find it easier to use sandwich for easy-to-recognise sandwiches. Thus ham sandwich, or crisp sandwich. Whereas for the more advanced "is it a sandwich or not" I find Butty (not a word I use a great deal, and may suggest something other to the American readers) works well. So chip butty or bread sauce butty rather than chip sandwich or bread sauce sandwich. And Bread Butty works, but I think perhaps not Butty Butty. That would be Butty pie, I suppose. This I think where Bertrand Russell and Alfred Whitehead got to in about 1910.

I believe the gentleman was afflicted with a wart. I understand the wart went...but not unaccompanied.

Hmm. For the true experience Hydrofluoric is your man. It is whatever the correct term for hydrophilic is, and so 'burrows' away from the initial site looking for tasty water of which your body has plenty. I instance this as I heard of a case where someone had actually self-medicated with this, and yes on the genitalia.

Maybe because you'd assumed an article on "hot" dogs was a very different sort of article. If you're hearing what I'm saying...

Is the potted pig's head as similarly literal and, err, refreshing.

I have a neighbour who wears by jelly (jello) with almost anything. I can see how the chicken liver pate with the blackcurrant jam could work. But my mind's pie is failing to see how his chosen breakfast of Kippers or tinned sardines & Strawberry jelly can be pleasurable.

I cook essentially the initial recipe with no eggs - the cream/milk combination cooks down with starch from the potato, I can't see the egg adding much. It is very hard to screw up. I'm with Elizabeth David on garlic applique. Only rub the container with garlic if you're planning on eating the frigging container.

But that's obviously funny. I will try & think of a more coherent account of the campness of fine dining (without suggesting any likely success).

The dishes that you cited of pigeon cooked (in salt) in a pastry crust shaped to resemble a bird is certainly 'traditional' - though I couldn't give you adequate footnote on that one. Similarly the fish which is rescaled after cooking is an 'idea' which is very old - poached salmon, skinned and with cucumber scales is one example. I'm sure the late 19thC was prone to this. Actually (bringing the conversation back to duck-rabbit) there is always Northumbrian duck which is (leg?) of lamb butchered to resemble a duck. Certainly retaining aspects of the live creature in the cooked presentation amuses me with its slightly mordant overtones. And the simile of the post-prandial coffee or cigar is also (mildly) funny. However the manufacture of simulacra of various objects e.g. the piano seems to be to have more of a kitsch sensibility than what might be wit. And this, in the context of haute cuisine, is to fail to acknowledge the extraordinarily camp nature of much of the proceedings. The (it changes now) mannerisms of the upper echelon of the Michelin world read (to my mind) somewhat as a terrible parody of the mannered late 19thC world of the haute-bourgeoisie.

The 12th being a Friday would connect with Borough Market which would suggest the Market porter (v. close to London Bridge) or maybe the George if decent weather. Is the 12th good for Wilfrid, Stellabella & Andy as well as MissJ? For me, I'm afraid, it is always beer o'clock.

Call me Morel. Wrong though you are I will err on the non-drunk side of my 'personality' and will likely be in the Wenlock on the 5th from 6-6:30pm. Someone else might wish to make a call on a venue for the other date (11th). It sounds to me as if Wilfrid nurtures a nostalgia (though possibly a nostalgie de boue) for the pubs of yesteryear. A possibility might be the Market Porter (Borough Mkt not operative Thursdays). The Sutton Arms or a more trad Smithfield place (near Barbican/Charterhouse) might be another possible (for different location).

I would also like very much to go drinking on the 11th or 12th. I know this make me sound like a terrible drunk, but I may well be one. I also believe the Wenlock was Simon's designated drinking establishment. Others that are possible (excluding Wenlock) from the expressed preferences of the members might include the Market Porter (v. handy for Borough Market & London Bridge Friday or Satyrday). Pride of Spitalfields (not that this pub ever opens late, oh no, and if you turned up at midnight would definitely not serve etc etc)

I'd very much like to take a drink with you all on the 5th (Wenlock or elsewhere), if permitted.

I too like the blueprint, it is not haute cuisine, but the cooking is very sound - I have been there 4 times (partly because it's handy for the bus) and never regretted it. I even recommended it to my sister who wanted to take people from Doncaster to a London Eaterie and they all liked it. (and she would really have begrudged her pennies if she thought she'd been stitched up). Broadly speaking Tower Bridge is better to look at than London Bridge.

Sorry to be only tangential, but Gulls eggs. Fishmongers might carry them (the ones in Leadenhall market do), and Mr Henderson serves them at the bar (& presumably restaurant) of St. John when in season. I think I saw them on sale around the beginning of May & the season is short (6 weeks or so), so you've probably missed them for this year. I expect some more knowledgable cove might add improved detail.

Thankyou Andy, it was very much in the context of dining that I enquired. We can only speculate what a date with Steve P. would be like.

Simon, thankyou. Clearly I have been doing it all wrong as currently it takes me around 18 months to get to the red wine and curry over clothing stage of the 'relationship'. Your tips will enable me to accelerate my progress through the few remaining short-sighted and deaf members of the population who have yet to 'catch my eye'.

To what extent do members think Simon's rules (a,b and c) should apply to 'dating situations'. After all the issue is largely around whether the situation engendered by the dining experience is likely to facilitate the 'client' 'putting out'. And if the rules need extending what additional suggestions do members have. Not that most members of eGullet would ever think of anything except what they are likely to be ingesting, but it is perhaps possible that certain eGulletarians have ventured to dine with an eye on more than just the carte des desserts as the conclusion to their dining experience.

And with what is Grandma customarily stuffed?

Richard Corrigan (& I am sure others) prepares a - what is the equivalent of synoptic, syngastric? - view of a whole pig on a plate with a slightly prissily presented collection of loin, black pudding, crubeen & some other bit. One could (in a nose to tail eating sort of way) execute the digestive process digested in the following way: Start with the mouth (tongue) then proceed onward to stomach thence a choice - to intestines & onward & outward - or into the liver & spleen then heart & so on... Finishing obviously with the tail (either pig or ox)

So it should be possible to trepan oneself, and snack on one's own brain? With sauce gribiche presumably. One for the Dinner! thread.

I instanced in another thread a kitsch version of the 'full english' served as a starter at interlude de chavot (fried egg (quail's) fried slice (of brioche....) There are a number of directions one could take trompe l'oeil (bouche). E.g .serving dishes which had the appearance of savoury dishes but were sweet (or vice versa). Or a jelly which was transparent but matt, that the diner might not be able to see - so served an 'empty plate'. Or caviar on a black plate. INversion of order in some sense - is another direction one could go. The innately theatrical nature of some restaurant experiences lend themselves to a farcical interpretation.

What is the best way of cooking fans of Billy Joel, in your view?

None of my comments were adverse - though I am not beyond suggesting that the protagonists of the kitchen sink drama would have all moved out to the suburbs. One eater's gastro-porn is another reader's gastro-erotica. I think this is contingent upon the reader. Your copy of italian food has the pages stuck together with bolognaise, mine...etc I wouldn't even particularly claim her as a literary innovator - most innovations of the modern era seem to have been invented at least once by the time of the 18th C., typically by Laurence 'Hand Shandy' Sterne. Alternatively I could say that reading Elizabeth David within a purely culinary tradition is to diminish both her, as a writer, and oneself as a reader.