Dave the Cook

Andie, I am hardly a poster boy for piety and clean living. I give credit for all my good fortune to those I believe are responsible: the good People of the Gullet. Thanks everyone.

The range is being delivered on Monday!

I figure Thanksgiving will give me a very good idea about whether or not it's going to work. In fact, doing all that prep in a short period might give me some specific ideas about modifications, in addition to just helping me decide whether or not I can live with it as is.

So do I level the top, or just keep expensive rugs out of the kitchen? The latter is far easier for me!

Now I really feel lazy! If I can make alternate suggestion, why not prime the crowd with pork, and have a frame-and-drywall party? (Save the beer for afterwards.) This is a much bigger job than painting a kitchen ceiling. Do your patch/test work ahead of time, and if they still have energy, enlist them in prepping the kitchen, which will take almost as long as the painting, if you have to do it yourself. Once the prep work is done, the psinting isn't too bad. Actually, it was the notion you posted elsewhere that having an oven that could go really low and steady (was it salami, or something like that?) could be very useful. Down here, with air conditioning and all, finding a place for dehydration or bread rising can be difficult. That, plus the reputation of KA as being a serious range (see "yuppie kitchen sculpture," above), kept it in my mind.Then it became a matter of, as my friend Varmint says, marginal costs. Here's how that stacked up: As of Sunday afternoon, there were three choices, plus an unknown: 1) the cosmetically damaged KA ($989); 2) the Frigidaire ($979); 3) the Kenmore ($790). The Frigidaire was eliminated when, upon careful comparison, it was revealed to be the same range as the Kenmore, less the nice warming drawer. I checked the list price on each -- KA: $1649, Kenmore: $1249. At this point, my cost (less the insurance money of $375) for the KA would be $614 + $50 (delivery) + $37 (tax) = $656; for the Kenmore -- $415 + $50 + $25 = $490. The insurance company had offered access to their discount price list, but based on the differential between the estimated cost to fix the current range ($450) and their cash offer ($375), I figured the discount was going to be about 15%, and that meant that the KA and the Kenmore I had seen at the outlet were going to be my best bets. But! Just to be able to say that I'd done my due diligence, I called the insurance company to get their prices. Needless to say, they didn't carry Kenmore. Neither did they carry Frigidaire. They carried Whirlpool, GE, and KitchenAid. Whirlpool, being part of the same conglomerate as Frigidaire, has a range that seemed to be similar to the Frigidaire, but their site is so bereft of details that I decided I didn't want to encourage them. Again, in the name of due diligence, I checked out the applicable GE models, and found them to be overpriced compared to KA, let alone Kenmore. To my considerable surprise, the delivered price on the KA, including tax, was not $1649 less 15%, plus delivery, which would have been somewhere in the neighborhood of $1540 (after delivery and tax), but $1043. When I subtracted the $375, I came to $668 -- $12 more than the damaged unit I had seen on Saturday, for a perfect new range. So the the choice was between it and the Kenmore. I went back to check the specs on the two ovens. True convection, check; two dual-sized burners, check; warming drawer, check; wait -- what the price on the KA again? $1999? When did that happen? Apparently about the time they added an integrated temperature probe, closed-door broiling, warming drawer pans and a second oven light. In other words, sometime between Saturday morning and Monday afternoon. KA also has a better warranty. All those things, plus the stuff I mentioned above (not to mention the almost visceral appeal of getting $2000 range for 600 bucks) tilted me toward the KitchenAid. C'est tout. They haven't promised pre-T-day delivery, so everyone please cross your fingers. Yes, Priscilla, the sideboard is a done deal; it's being delivered on Friday. I'm tending towards Marlene's "screw a butcher block on top" plan, but it won't cost me anything to try it Maggie's way for a while and see if it's workable. I can always get someone in an Ikea-equipped city to send me one of their six-foot birch countertops. As for the cherries -- well, I have another idea. If it works, there will be pictures. But to start with, white, per Brooks' instructions, with a red kickboard, and red knobs and handles.

Well, you're going to have to do some heavy-duty cutting, either way -- if you insist on a larger cooking surface.

You'll have to finish the newly-exposed sides of the cabinets adjacent to the cut-out. If you go the range route, you'll have to clear the entire area all the way to the wall, including cutting away the counter below the backsplash. What are the counters made of?

How was I to know you had this slide-in range fetish?

I don't think anyone makes a 36" slide-in range. I checked (real quick) KA, DCS and Thermador. Since the counter needs to support the range to some extent, I imagine anything bigger than 30" is too heavy. What you can do, however, is replace the cooktop and put an oven in the cabinet beneath it.

I'm working on a floorplan for this space, but the shape is tricky, and Marlene and I will probably have to go through a few rounds to get it right. Once we have that, I think some things will be a lot clearer. I'm with the group that says you really need power in the island. I suppose there's nothing to be lost by putting in the island and seeing how it works -- you can always add electricity later, and it probably won't cost you any more. But I bet this is one of those things that's going to bug you over and over until you take care of it. We should get some terminology straight, because it will make a difference in your budget: that KA (which is beautiful, by the way, though I can't for the life of me figure out why it's so expensive) is a stand-alone range, not a slide-in. This is important because in addition to losing your drawers, your countertop will need some work in order to accomodate it.

Susan, you make me feel lazy. On the ceiling, did I miss something? Why not give it a couple of spray coats of primer to cover, and one or two coats of a final color? For that matter, if you're considering professional help to re-do the popcorn, why not just hire a painter to do the overhead work? Or one of fifi's dreamy professional muck suckers? Never say never. My first house was a fixer-upper, and until two months ago, I was sure I had gotten that out of my system at a relatively young age. A brand new KitchenAid is on the way (this one, in white). For the first time in my life, insurance paid off. My out-of-pocket is $677.80, including tax and delivery. No one makes grits for Thanksgiving dinner, Marlene. But thanks for the idea.

A few more details on the carrots, please? And I'm glad the glaze worked out. The roast looks awesome. A little pink (almost) never hurt anyone.

Hi, Don!

Here it is (I did a quick -and-dirty silhouette on it, because the background was so cluttered): Here's the reverse angle. It's horribly out of focus, but it shows some of the shape in a way that the other picture doesn't. Ten square feet of cabinets and incipient worktable: $225. Thoughts? Oh, and this will just fit in one of the lower cabinets:

Lots of hot water and a putty knife, a ton of elbow grease and even more swearing. Been there, done that. In fact, still doing it. Bad taste. No accounting for it. Once you get the fabric off, it's even more of the above mentioned nasties to get the adhesive off. Me, I can't understand wall coverings. Paint is cheap and easily redone. And, thanks for the Bulls Eye recomendation. I'm a big fan of their shellac. Stove. For me, it's more about the cooktop than the oven. IMHO. ← Sounds like it would be easier just to put up new sheetrock! I agree with you on the relative importance of cooktop versus oven. This is especially true in the summer, when I do a lot of oven tasks outside, anyway. But with the weather getting cooler, and darkness falling earlier (probably more important, actually), I've been surprised at how often I've had to rethink things in the last couple of weeks. Now, it's probably true that most of the time all I need is a hot box to finish things off, or provide low, steady heat for several hours. The thing is, the cooktops on these three units seem to be equal, so either I go for the cheapest alternative, or I look at other factors to make my decision. I see these as (in no particular order): - size of oven - flexibility of oven arrangement - reputation (including recommendations from eGullet members) - additional features - for lack of a better term, feel -- how I respond to the unit when it's in front of me -- does it feel like a real cook's tool, or like a yuppie kitchen sculpture? What a great idea. But you're taking all the fun out of it. Where were you a month ago?

Great points, Andie. I will do as you suggest. Do you think anyone would object to me trying to wedge a big raw turkey into a showroom oven? I understand about the Gaggeneau -- in fact, a lot of prosumer ranges have the same shortcoming. OTOH, Gaggenau has a really great aesthetic sensibility. Their stuff is just beautiful to look at.

Based on the oven cavity dimensions buried on the Frigidaire site, I calculate the oven size at 3.66 cubic feet. Via PM, I was alerted to the fact that Frigidaire makes a great many of the Kenmore appliances. If you go to the Sears site and use their comparison feature to see the units side by side, you'll find it pretty hard to dispute that. This means that we're actually looking at the same range in two slightly different guises -- one has a handle on the bottom drawer; one has a warming drawer, etc. (I was reminded this afternoon that Frigidaire is owned by Electrolux. The label on the Frigidaire compiled the interesting lineage: made in Canada for an American subsidiary of a Swedish company, who imported it through Jacksonville, FL.) The upshot of all of that is that the Kenmore probably has the same size oven. So, Andie, how big an oven do I need? Is this a significant difference? I do turkey (maybe 14 pounds, max) once a year, a shank-end ham or a pork butt two or three times each. Am I OK with either? Susan: I used a highly recommended primer called Bullseye 1-2-3, then two coats of semi-gloss enamel, sanding between coats but not after the primer. In retrospect, I'd use a full-gloss paint; I'm still thinking that I might go back and put a third coat on using full-gloss. The semi-gloss just takes fingerprints too easily (new knobs will stop this), and I figure it's going to take to grease almost as well. I've been really surprised with our stadium-level lighting -- no bugs in the fixture, though it puts out enough lumens for the Georgia Dome, and we're in a highly wooded area. I still need some task lighting over the future work counter, though. I've got some ideas, but I haven't settled on anything yet. One interesting thing I've seen is relatively cheap halogen monorail at the DIY places -- a lot of flexibility in placement, and good color temperature. I'll post more as I find out more. As for the popcorn, I'm fiercely resisting the impulse to do anything about it. My guess is that the previous owners were a divided couple -- one smoked and the other didn't. This means the kitchen is relatively clean. However, if anyone has suggestions for removing the wall coverings in the living room -- a textured cloth that stretches 24 feet up, and is as well-tinted as snowangel's ceilings, I'd love to hear about it.

The Kenmore and KA both have warming drawers. All three come through Sears, and I'm in suburban Atlanta, so service for any of them is readily available. I'm intrigued by the extra features on the KA: proofing, drying, etc., so it's hard for me to dismiss. And you can't see it on the web page, but it feels well, heavier than the others. For some reason, that inspires confidence. Can someone explain Sabbath mode?

When last we checked in on our hero, he was without a working oven. Today I checked a number of scratch-and-dent outlets, and came across this: KitchenAid range It has a deep scratch in the handle, but it's got a nice spec sheet, it's white, it's got true convection, it's very sturdy, and I can get it for $989. The home warranty company is kicking in $375 (or they'll buy a new one worth $450). I also found: Frigidaire range in stainless steel ($979), and this: Kenmore also in stainless, for $790. What does everyone think? This range problem has put a deep hole in my budget, so the idea of using pre-made cabinets is on very soft ground, and I'm going back to the idea of remodeling a sideboard or dresser of some sort. I found an art-deco piece today that's 60" W x 22" D x 36" high. It's ugly in the way that only badly executed art-deco can be. In other words, it might be perfect. I'll get a picture tomorrow. I think we're looking for an update from Susan, aren't we?

Most decent chile powders contain a high percentage of ancho. Use one of those.

Pear-rosemary granita 1 bottle (750 ml) white wine (a dry riesling is nice here; sauvignon blanc works, too) 1 C pear juice 1/2 C sugar 2-3 sprigs fresh rosemary zest of one lemon, in strips Poire William Bruise the rosemary by crumpling it in your fist. Put all the ingredients in a saucepan, and bring it to a boil (not too fast). Reduce heat and simmer for about ten minutes. Remove from heat and let cool to room temperature. Strain into a shallow pan and freeze. You need a pan big enough so that the liquid isn't more than about a half-inch deep. When it's frozen (it will never get really solid), use a fork to scrape it into a texture sort of like a finely crushed sno-cone. Use a disher to make a nice little ball of granita in a coupe, splash (gently) with Poire William, and garnish with a sprig of rosemary. This will make six to eight small portions. I don't know why you couldn't substitute apple juice, if you can't find pear, or go half and half.

We're all adults here (in age, anyway). Let's call them by their correct names, shall we? Panties. Soy-ancho-apple glaze 1 C soy sauce 1 small can apple juice concentrate (I think that's probably about a cup) 6 T dark brown sugar 6 T ground ancho 4 t ground black pepper 1 T lard, butter or vegetable oil Combine soy sauce, apple juice concentrate and brown sugar in a small saucepan. Reduce by about 50% over medium heat (be careful -- it gets really foamy and will boil over into a nasty mess if you use too much heat). You should have a really dark, intense syrup. Heat the fat in a small skillet or saute pan. As soon as it's melted, toss in the ancho and pepper. As soon as it starts to bubble and/or develops a really intense aroma, remove it from the heat and allow to cool. When both components are at room temperature, combine them. Brush on all exposed surfaces of roast before you put it in the oven, and again halfway through cooking. I found a pear-rosemary granita recipe, if you're interested in that for your entrement.

Not stainless -- and not cheap -- but not aluminum, either: black steel sheet pan

I would insist on seconds. Stephen brings up a good point about the moisture. Cukes are really wet to start with (even the English ones), and when you freeze them and damage the cells, it's only going to get worse. You might try salting them for an hour or so as part of your prep. This draws out a lot of moisture, and has surprisingly little effect on flavor (if that matters, since it's a garnish that might not get eaten anyway).

Most of the things that can kill you die themselves at 160 F. Enjoy.